Szamsziel said: Nah, on green and blue node you can use cycle without supports (kiora). Monitor + rishar allows easily to cast ultimate in few seconds. Also you can use whir of invention to put Drake on board:)
wereotter said: Szamsziel said: Nah, on green and blue node you can use cycle without supports (kiora). Monitor + rishar allows easily to cast ultimate in few seconds. Also you can use whir of invention to put Drake on board:) I'm referencing a white node, so you couldn't use that strategy.
shteev said: wereotter said: Szamsziel said: Nah, on green and blue node you can use cycle without supports (kiora). Monitor + rishar allows easily to cast ultimate in few seconds. Also you can use whir of invention to put Drake on board:) I'm referencing a white node, so you couldn't use that strategy. I gather there's a Green and White planeswalker.
babar3355 said: Yeah, new perspectives and drake haven are win conditions and/or make cycling even easier, but are totally unnecessary. You could us an AotSS deck (Approach of the Second Sun) deck with nothing but common cycle/creature spells and monitor in AJ2 for a win with no supports deck.
wereotter said: shteev said: wereotter said: Szamsziel said: Nah, on green and blue node you can use cycle without supports (kiora). Monitor + rishar allows easily to cast ultimate in few seconds. Also you can use whir of invention to put Drake on board:) I'm referencing a white node, so you couldn't use that strategy. I gather there's a Green and White planeswalker. Ajani can't use Whir of Invention or Drake Haven.
wereotter said: shteev said:i wereotter said: Szamsziel said: Nah, on green and blue node you can use cycle without supports (kiora). Monitor + rishar allows easily to cast ultimate in few seconds. Also you can use whir of invention to put Drake on board:) I'm referencing a white node, so you couldn't use that strategy. I gather there's a Green and White planeswalker. Ajani can't use Whir of Invention or Drake Haven
shteev said:i wereotter said: Szamsziel said: Nah, on green and blue node you can use cycle without supports (kiora). Monitor + rishar allows easily to cast ultimate in few seconds. Also you can use whir of invention to put Drake on board:) I'm referencing a white node, so you couldn't use that strategy. I gather there's a Green and White planeswalker.
shteev said: New Perspectives looks an awful lot like Baral v1, doesn't it? It gives 3 mana to a bunch of cards in your hand and then gives 3 mana to any you draw, as well.Except, it's a support, so it's harder to shoot. And it draws 3 cards when it comes into play. And it costs 3 less mana.It feels nice that cycling only costs 1 at the moment, so you can throw away your situational colored Demolish variant when you don't need it, but the costs of the cards are going to have to be increased a lot. Most cycling cards in paper MTG cost 2 or more mana, which is a significant amount of the mana available to a player in a turn. I'd say we need to be looking at 3 mana as a bare minimum. There's a reason why you don't see cycling 0 in paper MTG much, and when it does show up it usually gets banned in tournament formats at some point.Cards which have effects when they cycle need to be costed like normal cards. a 2/2 zombie which draws a card when it comes into play would not cost 2 mana; it'd cost at least 6, wouldn't it? I mean Shambling Ghoul costs 6 and you don't even get your card back. Renewed Faith should be costed more like Healing Hands. Shefet Monitor should be costed more like Rishkar's Exp... er, no, wait a second, like Animist's Awa.... sod it, I don't know, it's not my job to balance these stupid mana gain cards. Sort it out.Engines which trigger on cycling are all just going to have to go. We love Engines, don't we? Er, no, not really. I have an idea about them, actually, which I'll put in another thread when I get around to it. But honestly, you can't have Drake Haven, you can't have Curator of Mysteries, and you can't have Faith of the Devoted. And you DEFINITELY can't have New Perspectives. They can't cost as little as they do, and frankly they can't have effects like that either. Redesign them from the ground up.Lastly; there are other engines in the game which trigger off draws which are problematic with cycling... Alhammaret's Archive and Sphinx's Tutelage are the only two I can think of off the top of my head. I'd suggest making cycling fetch the top card of your deck rather than draw it specifically to break the synergy with these cards. Yeah, I know, I'm a big spoilsport, aren't I?
tfg76 said: Here's a suggestion: when you want to cycle something, mark it as such, and when you gain mana, each card will only "cost" whatever the cycling cost is. Then, when resolving the card, it would execute the cycling effect (typically just drawing a card) rather than being played the normal way. That way, you can cycle a bunch of cards at the end of your turn, but not really "go infinite".
Irgy said: Cycling is ridiculously overpowered. There's one reason and one reason only why the forums aren't overwhelmed with complaints, and that's because the AI can't play the decks. It's the same as Ob-Nix, Ob-Nix is not anywhere near as OP as cycling but he is still far too good, but since the AI never saves up for the ultimate no-one complains.Which I personally think is a poor reflection on the community. Apparently we're not interested in playing a competitive or challenging game at all.
Baral decks are foiled by Kambal, Authority of the consulate, minds dilation,(of course disable and kill) captured by the consulate, managorger hydra, noosegraf mob, scab clan berserker.
andrewvanmarle said: What about this:instead of trying to nerf the whole cycling mechanic, add cards to the set that act as a natural enemy.supports and creatures that do variants of the following: when opponent cycles a card--- disable the first non disabled creature---gain 3 life----do 2 damage----drain 2 mana---gain 2 mana---opponent discards a random card---etcspread cards like that out over the 5 colours and suddenly cycling becomes a risky proposition. Much more fun than just dumbing down/killing/nerfing the mechanic