Welcome Death said: Sure thing. If you pulled all legendaries in a non-vaulted system, you would need to pull about 719 legendaries to cover all 47 4* covers, assuming an even spread and color coverage (it would be higher of course because youd get dupes and runs on one character, but let's assume a perfect world for both systems). Your 5s (If you pulled all classics) would average around 390-405. You would need 6248 pulls to get every 4* to 370. At that point, if you pulled all classics, your 5s would be at level 522. That's max champing all 4s. Now, with a vaulting system, assuming you're only using LTs and getting the vaulted 4s from those pulls, you would need to pull 10,705 tokens just to COVER the vaulted 4s. Thats enough pulls to max champ every classic 5*, build dupes and get the dupes to level 483. Max champing the vaulted 4s would require 93,058 pulls. Thats enough pulls to max champ and flip every classic 5* 11 times(!) and have your last set at level 475. These rates are ridiculous. Sure, building a single 4* faster is a good thing, and if we played a game with no essential 4* / boosts / featured / whatever it would be a non-issue. But the game is set-up in a way that you have to have all characters rostered in order to compete (even DDQ!)So, to answer your question. Bonus heroes / vaulting made it about 2 times the rate to acquire one single classic 4*. For the tier in general, the rate is about 6.7% of what it used to be. In other words, you have to pull about 15 times the amount of tokens to get the same rate on the tier as before. Bonus heroes = great idea! Vaulting = ....maybe not so much. If theyd kept the BH and did away with vaulting and/or gave better rates for BY specifically in the LT store, it would have been a fantastic system for fighting dilution.
MarkersMake said: WD, can you re-run those numbers assuming a person doesn't want to cover every 4* character? I mean, there are about 5 that I can think of off the top of my head (Peggy, Teen Jean, Rulk, Iceman, Thoress) that would be great to have, some that would be nice, and a bunch that are very meh.I know the game rewards rostering every character (essentials, boosted list, crash, burrito, etc), but how does the math look if you just want 1 cover for all 4*s (to roster themq) and only want to champ and/or max-champ 5 or maybe 10 of the vaulted ones. Obviously, you're not my math lackey - I can take a closer look later and post back if you don't have time, and/or don't want to. I just think that would be a more realistic look at how things would actually play out in the long term.
Vhailorx said: MarkersMake said: WD, can you re-run those numbers assuming a person doesn't want to cover every 4* character? I mean, there are about 5 that I can think of off the top of my head (Peggy, Teen Jean, Rulk, Iceman, Thoress) that would be great to have, some that would be nice, and a bunch that are very meh.I know the game rewards rostering every character (essentials, boosted list, crash, burrito, etc), but how does the math look if you just want 1 cover for all 4*s (to roster themq) and only want to champ and/or max-champ 5 or maybe 10 of the vaulted ones. Obviously, you're not my math lackey - I can take a closer look later and post back if you don't have time, and/or don't want to. I just think that would be a more realistic look at how things would actually play out in the long term. Sure, if you limit the definition of "better" to mean "exactly what I would prefer," then of course the thing you prefer is "better."
carrion pigeons said: The problem people have with vaulting varies according to their status. Veterans with champed 4*s don't like vaulting because champ rewards for newly champed characters are less valuable than those with more levels. Vaulting makes it harder to get characters deep into their champ levels, and this reduces the flow of resources to vets.People in the 4* transition don't like vaulting because they had a whole bunch of half-developed characters who are suddenly either wasted space or else extremely more long-term projects that can only rely on Bonus Heroes to get anywhere, one at a time.People without older characters at all don't like vaulting because they still have to compete against people who have them, and it feels like an unfair advantage they can never overcome, in terms of flexibility and utility.Also, everyone objects to the way vaulting causes more wasted pulls. This is admittedly a short-term problem, but it's one people are having right now.Vaulting has clear long-term benefits: it creates a shifting metagame which gives the game more depth. It lessens the burden on new players in some respects to advance. It justifies the existence of Bonus Heroes, which probably would never have been implemented without it. It came with an associated bump in total 4* acquisition. All of that is nice. But it's easy to see how a change that had immediate negative effects on every active player in the game would be unpopular.
broll said: You were gonna get a like until that last paragraph. There are no clear long-term benefits and those short-term benefits aren't going to suddenly go away. A few of them will gradually fade, but that will take either vets quitting or a very long time to achieve.
broll said: carrion pigeons said: The problem people have with vaulting varies according to their status. Veterans with champed 4*s don't like vaulting because champ rewards for newly champed characters are less valuable than those with more levels. Vaulting makes it harder to get characters deep into their champ levels, and this reduces the flow of resources to vets.People in the 4* transition don't like vaulting because they had a whole bunch of half-developed characters who are suddenly either wasted space or else extremely more long-term projects that can only rely on Bonus Heroes to get anywhere, one at a time.People without older characters at all don't like vaulting because they still have to compete against people who have them, and it feels like an unfair advantage they can never overcome, in terms of flexibility and utility.Also, everyone objects to the way vaulting causes more wasted pulls. This is admittedly a short-term problem, but it's one people are having right now.Vaulting has clear long-term benefits: it creates a shifting metagame which gives the game more depth. It lessens the burden on new players in some respects to advance. It justifies the existence of Bonus Heroes, which probably would never have been implemented without it. It came with an associated bump in total 4* acquisition. All of that is nice. But it's easy to see how a change that had immediate negative effects on every active player in the game would be unpopular. You were gonna get a like until that last paragraph. There are no clear long-term benefits and those short-term benefits aren't going to suddenly go away. A few of them will gradually fade, but that will take either vets quitting or a very long time to achieve.