ArkPrime wrote: Pylgrim wrote: ArkPrime wrote: Wait. So all you changed so far is that we're going to lose way more points if we lose a match. Is that your awesome pvp scoring system change so far? Er, in the example given by Will, in the past, from a defeat where the attacker got 25 points, the loser would lose 13 points, a 52% of the points given. In the new format, it's only 50%. Yes, on the paper you are losing more points on a defeat (6 more in the example given), but you also are scoring much more when you win (13 points more). So lets say that following exactly those numbers, you win once and are defeated once: Before you'd end with a total of +12 points, from now on, you'll end with a total of +19 points. An unarguably positive outcome. Also, if you are playing properly, you should be winning much, much more often than being defeated so that positive score compounds. Er, except the positive part of the changes only takes effect in the next season, but we got the patch for the negative part of it even before this announcement. Er.
Pylgrim wrote: ArkPrime wrote: Wait. So all you changed so far is that we're going to lose way more points if we lose a match. Is that your awesome pvp scoring system change so far? Er, in the example given by Will, in the past, from a defeat where the attacker got 25 points, the loser would lose 13 points, a 52% of the points given. In the new format, it's only 50%. Yes, on the paper you are losing more points on a defeat (6 more in the example given), but you also are scoring much more when you win (13 points more). So lets say that following exactly those numbers, you win once and are defeated once: Before you'd end with a total of +12 points, from now on, you'll end with a total of +19 points. An unarguably positive outcome. Also, if you are playing properly, you should be winning much, much more often than being defeated so that positive score compounds.
ArkPrime wrote: Wait. So all you changed so far is that we're going to lose way more points if we lose a match. Is that your awesome pvp scoring system change so far?
simonsez wrote: Demiurge_Will wrote: Before the change, if Ada and Bea both have 500 points and Ada attacks Bea and wins, Ada would gain 25 points and Bea would lose 13. After the change, Ada would gain 38 points and Bea would lose 19. Yes, because if there's one thing everyone's been asking for is, "Please make us lose more points when we get attacked!!". Dammit, the tone-deafness is so maddening at times! At least you didn't drop this turd on a friday, as usual.
Demiurge_Will wrote: Before the change, if Ada and Bea both have 500 points and Ada attacks Bea and wins, Ada would gain 25 points and Bea would lose 13. After the change, Ada would gain 38 points and Bea would lose 19.
scottee wrote: The big losers are those who push the point thresholds up by coordinating and setting the really high bar. Basically, the devs are trying to keep the coordinated top alliances from putting up sky high numbers, presumably to keep new players from feeling hopeless.
NighteyesGrisu wrote: Even though you lose 30% more on losses as well you still have a net gain.
Xenoberyll wrote: NighteyesGrisu wrote: Even though you lose 30% more on losses as well you still have a net gain. Except that at the higher ranks, the time you take to win one match might get you 5+ defensive losses...
Demiurge_Will wrote: There was a loophole in the scoring system that allowed players to coordinate to gain lots of points very quickly, by intentionally losing to one another. We’ve closed that loophole by...
unco_dan wrote: Demiurge_Will wrote: There was a loophole in the scoring system that allowed players to coordinate to gain lots of points very quickly, by intentionally losing to one another. We’ve closed that loophole by... no. dont call it a loophole just to justify a change that you want to sell as necessary to the 'intended' functioning of the system. its not a loophole. its ingenuity on behalf of veteran players to make something out of this tinykitty game. your so-called loophole wouldnt be such a 'problem' if ya'll had not continually tinykittied this game up. ya'll do realize that you cant squash the hustle. players will always seek out any advantage they can. your post really makes it sound like the devs spend more time trying to kill fun (or what little is left of it) than to even start to fix any of the many problems the community has continually raised in vain.
NighteyesGrisu wrote: Why am I not surprised that some people instantly whine about the change
NighteyesGrisu wrote: it's a rather substantial net gain since in the earlier stages wins amount for quite a bit more than losses
Eddiemon wrote: D3 have just said they are increasing our expected scores by 50% for the same amount of effort.
simonsez wrote: Same reason I'm not surprised there are always shills and white knights who don't know a turd from a bonbon
No one gives a flying tinykitty about the earlier stages of PvP. If you still need it explained to you, this is about the potential for disasters via bad hops and sniping.
unco_dan wrote: no. dont call it a loophole just to justify a change that you want to sell as necessary to the 'intended' functioning of the system. its not a loophole. its ingenuity on behalf of veteran players to make something out of this tinykitty game. your so-called loophole wouldnt be such a 'problem' if ya'll had not continually tinykittied this game up. ya'll do realize that you cant squash the hustle. players will always seek out any advantage they can. your post really makes it sound like the devs spend more time trying to kill fun (or what little is left of it) than to even start to fix any of the many problems the community has continually raised in vain.
NighteyesGrisu wrote: strange, haven't people whined endlesssly how it's not so hard to climb since less seed teams and harder teams from the start..
simonsez wrote: There's a difference between things that are just tedious and annoying vs. things that are going to actually negatively impact your score.
And let's wait for Will to say the new cap is 75 before we start assuming that points gained on hop wins will be any more than they are now.
Pylgrim wrote: ArkPrime wrote: Pylgrim wrote: ArkPrime wrote: Wait. So all you changed so far is that we're going to lose way more points if we lose a match. Is that your awesome pvp scoring system change so far? Er, in the example given by Will, in the past, from a defeat where the attacker got 25 points, the loser would lose 13 points, a 52% of the points given. In the new format, it's only 50%. Yes, on the paper you are losing more points on a defeat (6 more in the example given), but you also are scoring much more when you win (13 points more). So lets say that following exactly those numbers, you win once and are defeated once: Before you'd end with a total of +12 points, from now on, you'll end with a total of +19 points. An unarguably positive outcome. Also, if you are playing properly, you should be winning much, much more often than being defeated so that positive score compounds. Er, except the positive part of the changes only takes effect in the next season, but we got the patch for the negative part of it even before this announcement. Er. Oh my God, you're right, how could I've been so insensitive. The devastating effects this change will have in these absolutely essential off-season events cannot be understated. My heart goes to you in these times of ungodly hardship, brother.
Ben Grimm wrote: How to fix PVP: Eliminate losing points entirely. Even offensively. If you win offensively, you gain points, if you lose, you get zero. Defense doesn't really matter. Yes, scores would go up, and you'd lose shield HP. But. You could recalibrate progression awards to reflect the new scoring. Lower levels would probably be unaffected; higher levels would go roughly where they were. And you'd also gain a lot of income because people would have a much stronger incentive to broaden their roster so they can fight longer. Right now, PVP is about keeping three people healthy. With these changes, people could use their entire rosters in PVP, and would gain a direct PVP benefit from doing so. Also, PVP might actually become, shockingly, fun. Suddenly, there would be a huge variety of opponents. Every team wouldn't be the same featured plus two. People would be able to try new strategies without worrying about how it would affect them on defense. People could try goofy combinations just because they think they'd be fun to play. And if people are enjoying it, they'd be more likely to by health packs, or tokens, or go after that character they weren't going to bother with because they weren't good in PVP. You'd gain a lot more long-term than you'd lose short-term. PVP is fixable, and it wouldn't necessarily be that difficult to fix. Please, try at least running an event or two like this - maybe in the next off-season - before you rule it out entirely.
fmftint wrote: that would just turn PVP into an endless 2.5 day grindfest. The fundamental problem in PVP is, you can only win one fight at a time, but theres no limit to how many you can lose