*** Gamora (Guardians of the Galaxy) ***

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  • dkffivdkffiv Posts: 1,034 Chairperson of the Boards
    my thought on gamora:
    -green is expensive and low on damage, 2 turn stun maybe matters or maybe not
    -red simply awesome, a rival to red HT
    -black.....pfft(maybe need to change into red tile generator or something, also there's a much choice for strike tile generator out there)

    Green 2 turn stun on 2 targets is pretty damn nice for CC.

    Red is arguably better than HT in a lot of situations, namely when paired with Daken or Blade (to avoid eating your strike tiles).

    Black is only useful if she's maxed but I still think its her worst.

    Gamora Spider-Man Falcon seem like they could be a decent PvE team, especially on Survival Nodes. Match a purple early to get some defense out, then work on black to get strike tiles out. Once they get buffed Green + Red will hit like trucks. The downside is that you'll be gathering a lot of yellow so only the tiles in the corner will actually be affected (making a 5/5/3 build more appealing even in the situation where she's tanking all 3 of her colors).
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    both her green and black are situational. It's one of the Green is good, it will never be great, it will never be bad. Black however can be absolutely amazing or just ****.

    If you only play her when she's buffed, then 3/5/5, if you actually want to use her as one of your A team characters then 5/5/3
  • dkffiv wrote:
    my thought on gamora:
    -green is expensive and low on damage, 2 turn stun maybe matters or maybe not
    -red simply awesome, a rival to red HT
    -black.....pfft(maybe need to change into red tile generator or something, also there's a much choice for strike tile generator out there)

    Green 2 turn stun on 2 targets is pretty damn nice for CC.

    Red is arguably better than HT in a lot of situations, namely when paired with Daken or Blade (to avoid eating your strike tiles).

    Black is only useful if she's maxed but I still think its her worst.

    Gamora Spider-Man Falcon seem like they could be a decent PvE team, especially on Survival Nodes. Match a purple early to get some defense out, then work on black to get strike tiles out. Once they get buffed Green + Red will hit like trucks. The downside is that you'll be gathering a lot of yellow so only the tiles in the corner will actually be affected (making a 5/5/3 build more appealing even in the situation where she's tanking all 3 of her colors).

    There is no situation I can think of where I'd bring her instead of blade.
  • Suppose she is one of the featured heroes on a heroic roster and blade isn't. Then would you bring her instead of blade?
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    both her green and black are situational. It's one of the Green is good, it will never be great, it will never be bad. Black however can be absolutely amazing or just ****.

    If you only play her when she's buffed, then 3/5/5, if you actually want to use her as one of your A team characters then 5/5/3

    The only time she would be on your A team is when you can use her black. Red/green aren't good enough to warrant her inclusion on your team, so I don't see an argument for anything except 3/5/5. Her only uses are when buffed in PvE / PvP and as a seed killer: 3/5/5 is fine for seed killing, and you obviously want her black when she's boosted.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    both her green and black are situational. It's one of the Green is good, it will never be great, it will never be bad. Black however can be absolutely amazing or just ****.

    If you only play her when she's buffed, then 3/5/5, if you actually want to use her as one of your A team characters then 5/5/3

    The only time she would be on your A team is when you can use her black. Red/green aren't good enough to warrant her inclusion on your team, so I don't see an argument for anything except 3/5/5. Her only uses are when buffed in PvE / PvP and as a seed killer: 3/5/5 is fine for seed killing, and you obviously want her black when she's boosted.

    However if boosted in PvP I still won't want black because of...wait for it...Xforce. To me red is her only solid skill
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    dkffiv wrote:
    my thought on gamora:
    -green is expensive and low on damage, 2 turn stun maybe matters or maybe not
    -red simply awesome, a rival to red HT
    -black.....pfft(maybe need to change into red tile generator or something, also there's a much choice for strike tile generator out there)

    Green 2 turn stun on 2 targets is pretty damn nice for CC.

    Red is arguably better than HT in a lot of situations, namely when paired with Daken or Blade (to avoid eating your strike tiles).

    Black is only useful if she's maxed but I still think its her worst.

    Gamora Spider-Man Falcon seem like they could be a decent PvE team, especially on Survival Nodes. Match a purple early to get some defense out, then work on black to get strike tiles out. Once they get buffed Green + Red will hit like trucks. The downside is that you'll be gathering a lot of yellow so only the tiles in the corner will actually be affected (making a 5/5/3 build more appealing even in the situation where she's tanking all 3 of her colors).

    Yeah, the team seems like it could be okay in survival, but 5 black is optimal even if you're matching away tiles. Think about it this way. If Gamora is tanking all her colors, then you'll get roughly 6 tiles out worst case, which is 900 damage in strike tiles. If you had 3 black, this would be 450 damage. This means you're getting an extra 450 a turn with 5 black, so even if some tiles get matched away, your 5 green / red damage would have to do more damage than an extra 450. This means that you need to cast red every 2 turns for that to pay off, which doesn't seem right.

    Talking with other people, I think 5/3/5 could be optimal for heroics: if you cast her stuff after black, then the extra turn of stun leads to a lot more damage than the extra red damage would.
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    both her green and black are situational. It's one of the Green is good, it will never be great, it will never be bad. Black however can be absolutely amazing or just ****.

    If you only play her when she's buffed, then 3/5/5, if you actually want to use her as one of your A team characters then 5/5/3

    The only time she would be on your A team is when you can use her black. Red/green aren't good enough to warrant her inclusion on your team, so I don't see an argument for anything except 3/5/5. Her only uses are when buffed in PvE / PvP and as a seed killer: 3/5/5 is fine for seed killing, and you obviously want her black when she's boosted.

    However if boosted in PvP I still won't want black because of...wait for it...Xforce. To me red is her only solid skill

    Let me clarify. New information based on optimalness stuff.

    If you are a 3* player without X-Force but a maxed Gamora and have optimized your team for Gamora's black, then 3/5/5 is probably optimal -> I assume that the general utility of red is better in general than the situational green that you probably have better outlets for.
    If you are a 4* player who wants to optimize for Gamora's PvP, then it literally doesn't matter what build you go as long as it includes 5 red: X-Force exists, so you aren't using green OR black.
    If you are a 4* player who wants to optimize for Gamora's heroics, then 5/3/5 is optimal. If Gamora is featured in a heroic, then you're gonna build around her black since that's her most sustained dps ability, in which case you hoard green/red until after black. If you're doing this, then with strike tiles, the extra turn of stun ends up being extremely important as it's basically the same as doing a strike tiled match (1.3k damage) + getting 3 AP (probably another 1k damage). The damage boost from 3->5 green and 3->5 red is a wash in this case if you assume you're going black -> green -> 2x red.

    TLDR: 5/3/5 if you want to optimize for heroics. Green stun matters. Otherwise 3/5/5 period -> transition players want the 5 black because thats how they do damage. 4* players just straight up don't care about black OR green because XF exists, so you might as well go with the build that can carry you in heroics if shes featured.
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    Would Starlord letting you use Gamora to do 1700 damage for only 3 red AP make 3/5/5 a more appealing option now?
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    I can't remember, does a boosted PvP character always take all their colors?
  • john1620bjohn1620b Age Unconfirmed Posts: 367
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    I can't remember, does a boosted PvP character always take all their colors?
    They used to, before the match damage change. Now they'll only take their primary color and TU tiles for sure. You can work it so they take the other two colors, but it depends on who you're pairing them with. For example, a red primary user (like IM40 or Thor) would tank red for Gamora, and a black primary or secondary user (like Punisher, Deadpool, or Doctor Doom) would tank black for her.
  • simonsez wrote:
    Would Starlord letting you use Gamora to do 1700 damage for only 3 red AP make 3/5/5 a more appealing option now?

    You mean 7 yellow and 3 red. So we're talking at the very least turn 4 without some lucky cascade that gets both colors. From there on you'll get a gamora red every other turn, assuming you're only matching red.

    That seems like a pretty awful deal to me.
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    ark123 wrote:
    That seems like a pretty awful deal to me.
    Well, you can probably apply that analysis to ANY use of Starlord's yellow... and I guess you could also say Fury's yellow is awful because you need 32 AP for it, but then again, it's not as if you go into a battle prioritizing those 32 AP.
  • It sounds like Gamora isn't really anything worth spending resources into unless you have some to waste?

    Trying to figure out if it's worth shielding for her in upcoming PVP...
  • I don't think they thought this character out properly.

    For 2->3* transitioners, she cannot lead the transition, because green and red are not going to be key winning strategies, meaning she's like hood. People praying for black (hood blue), other two covers being useless.

    3->4*, most situations, she won't cover enough tiles for black to be good

    4* synergies with starlord: starlord covers her red. if d3 actually wanted them to be played together, they're asking players to build a 4* so that a 3* will be usable? wha?


    I really hope that nobody ever plays with her, so the usage data will show she's another beast. Needs a fixing bad.
  • simonsez wrote:
    ark123 wrote:
    That seems like a pretty awful deal to me.
    Well, you can probably apply that analysis to ANY use of Starlord's yellow... and I guess you could also say Fury's yellow is awful because you need 32 AP for it, but then again, it's not as if you go into a battle prioritizing those 32 AP.

    Not true, you can get immediate results with any level of fury yellow. From giant protect tiles all the way to super combo. And fury has an ability that reads "if you match the wrong tile, you die. And you don't get to see which" while Starlord's reads "please oh please don't match this tile I randomly dropped in the middle of this match-5 or I don't do anything"
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    ark123 wrote:
    [And fury has an ability that reads "if you match the wrong tile, you die. And you don't get to see which" while Starlord's reads "please oh please don't match this tile I randomly dropped in the middle of this match-5 or I don't do anything"
    And Kurt Warner was the MVP of Super Bowl 34, which is just as relevant in a discussion of what's the best Gamora build.
  • simonsez wrote:
    ark123 wrote:
    [And fury has an ability that reads "if you match the wrong tile, you die. And you don't get to see which" while Starlord's reads "please oh please don't match this tile I randomly dropped in the middle of this match-5 or I don't do anything"
    And Kurt Warner was the MVP of Super Bowl 34, which is just as relevant in a discussion of what's the best Gamora build.
    And japanese crows figured out that they can drop nuts in traffic so cars will crack them, and then they wait for the pedestrian crossing light to turn green and eat the opened nuts.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Her skills are fine, but they are currently too expense, too weak, or too conditional.

    Lets look at green.

    Mass Stun, nice. Aoe dmg, nice. Amount of Aoe Dmg, ooh not good, AP cost, wow expensive

    Red

    Cheap and spammable, overall not a great skill but not bad.

    Black.

    AP cost, waaaay to much. Strike tiles..nice. Strike tiles based off of tile strength, ugh not good, especially if Torch or Hulk is feature PvP. Strike tiles only go on basic yellow tiles, really? You basically cap it at 9 yellow avg assuming you owned the entire board.

    how to fix her?

    Make green cost 10 or multiply the AoE dmg by 2 to 3 times the ammount.

    Red. you can keep as is

    Black. If you leave this the same, this skill should cost 8 AP not 12. If you want this to cost 12, then it should be 1 strike tile for every 2, otherwise if you are going to keep all that the same, then the strike tiles need to be tripled in strength. This would be my redo of Gamora.

    Skull Cracker - Green 12 greentile.png
    Gamora grabs two of her enemies and smashes their heads together before throwing them into a third enemy. Gamora stuns up to 2 random enemies for 1 turn. She deals 82 damage to the enemy team.
    Level 2: Deals 148 damage to the enemy team.
    Level 3: Deals 219 damage to the enemy team.
    Level 4: Deals 361 damage to the enemy team.
    Level 5: Gamora stuns up to 2 random enemies for 2 turns.
    Max Level: 2300 damage, stuns 2 enemies for 2 turns


    Razor’s Edge - Red 5 redtile.png
    Gamora furiously slices her target with her sword. She does 208 damage to the target enemy.
    Level 2: Gamora deals 250 damage to the target enemy.
    Level 3: Gamora deals 291 damage to the target enemy.
    Level 4: Gamora deals 374 damage to the target enemy.
    Level 5: Gamora deals 541 damage to the target enemy.
    Max Level: 1719 damage


    Bad Reputation - Black 8 blacktile.png
    Gamora's reputation as the "Most Dangerous Woman in the Galaxy" precedes her. She converts a basic yellowtile.png into a strength 18 Strike tile for every 4 tiles that bear her symbol.
    Level 2: Gamora makes strength 22 Strike tiles.
    Level 3: Gamora makes strength 26 Strike tiles.
    Level 4: Gamora makes strength 33 Strike tiles.
    Level 5: Gamora makes strength 48 Strike tiles.
    Max Level: Strength 148 Strike tiles


    This makes here extremely playable and Black would be very useful even if she only tanked 2 colors, since it only costs 8.
  • dkffivdkffiv Posts: 1,034 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    Her skills are fine, but they are currently too expense, too weak, or too conditional.

    Lets look at green.

    Mass Stun, nice. Aoe dmg, nice. Amount of Aoe Dmg, ooh not good, AP cost, wow expensive

    Red

    Cheap and spammable, overall not a great skill but not bad.

    Black.

    AP cost, waaaay to much. Strike tiles..nice. Strike tiles based off of tile strength, ugh not good, especially if Torch or Hulk is feature PvP. Strike tiles only go on basic yellow tiles, really? You basically cap it at 9 yellow avg assuming you owned the entire board.

    how to fix her?

    Make green cost 10 or multiply the AoE dmg by 2 to 3 times the ammount.

    Red. you can keep as is

    Black. If you leave this the same, this skill should cost 8 AP not 12. If you want this to cost 12, then it should be 1 strike tile for every 2, otherwise if you are going to keep all that the same, then the strike tiles need to be tripled in strength. This would be my redo of Gamora.

    Skull Cracker - Green 12 greentile.png
    Gamora grabs two of her enemies and smashes their heads together before throwing them into a third enemy. Gamora stuns up to 2 random enemies for 1 turn. She deals 82 damage to the enemy team.
    Level 2: Deals 148 damage to the enemy team.
    Level 3: Deals 219 damage to the enemy team.
    Level 4: Deals 361 damage to the enemy team.
    Level 5: Gamora stuns up to 2 random enemies for 2 turns.
    Max Level: 2300 damage, stuns 2 enemies for 2 turns


    Razor’s Edge - Red 5 redtile.png
    Gamora furiously slices her target with her sword. She does 208 damage to the target enemy.
    Level 2: Gamora deals 250 damage to the target enemy.
    Level 3: Gamora deals 291 damage to the target enemy.
    Level 4: Gamora deals 374 damage to the target enemy.
    Level 5: Gamora deals 541 damage to the target enemy.
    Max Level: 1719 damage


    Bad Reputation - Black 8 blacktile.png
    Gamora's reputation as the "Most Dangerous Woman in the Galaxy" precedes her. She converts a basic yellowtile.png into a strength 18 Strike tile for every 4 tiles that bear her symbol.
    Level 2: Gamora makes strength 22 Strike tiles.
    Level 3: Gamora makes strength 26 Strike tiles.
    Level 4: Gamora makes strength 33 Strike tiles.
    Level 5: Gamora makes strength 48 Strike tiles.
    Max Level: Strength 148 Strike tiles


    This makes here extremely playable and Black would be very useful even if she only tanked 2 colors, since it only costs 8.

    Overall I think she is pretty balanced other than her black being a little expensive (maybe drop it to 10). Remember that her green and red will do a lot more damage once her strike tiles go out, Punisher ends up doing crazy damage with his black once you cast green once or twice. They didn't want green to be super spammable because you can lock down and enemy team and do a ton of damage with strike tiles.
  • dkffivdkffiv Posts: 1,034 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    both her green and black are situational. It's one of the Green is good, it will never be great, it will never be bad. Black however can be absolutely amazing or just ****.

    If you only play her when she's buffed, then 3/5/5, if you actually want to use her as one of your A team characters then 5/5/3

    The only time she would be on your A team is when you can use her black. Red/green aren't good enough to warrant her inclusion on your team, so I don't see an argument for anything except 3/5/5. Her only uses are when buffed in PvE / PvP and as a seed killer: 3/5/5 is fine for seed killing, and you obviously want her black when she's boosted.

    I could see myself using her alongside Falcon and at that point I'll take any strength strike tiles and rely on his yellow buffing them like crazy. At that point I'd rather have the more reliable stun to try to control the enemy as I get the ball rolling.
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