New Character - Baron Zemo (Helmut Zemo) 5*

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Comments

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,535 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:
    Everybody's got a line. There's a continuum between someone completely non-problematic, like, I dunno, Wolverine, and Hitler (Earth-616). The trick is to ignore some loud minority who's super offended at Wolverine (down with Canada!), while respecting what I'd assume is a large majority of players who aren't interested in playing as Hitler.

    Personally I don't care much about these characters or their lore, for me they're just a pile of mechanics, so if they decided to start adding famous real-life dictators or serial killers I'd be asking "can I find a fun combo for Stalin" but a lot of others would probably be very offended and that's ok.

    It's funny how we can think of Wolverine as "non problematic". Just a murderer who casually murders with his murder claws! He once murdered Northstar! Thread loop! Zemo meanwhile seems sort of...OK? Apart from that time he ripped up Captain America's pictures of his mum. That was proper evil. 😐😐

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,052 Chairperson of the Boards

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    Everybody's got a line. There's a continuum between someone completely non-problematic, like, I dunno, Wolverine, and Hitler (Earth-616). The trick is to ignore some loud minority who's super offended at Wolverine (down with Canada!), while respecting what I'd assume is a large majority of players who aren't interested in playing as Hitler.

    Personally I don't care much about these characters or their lore, for me they're just a pile of mechanics, so if they decided to start adding famous real-life dictators or serial killers I'd be asking "can I find a fun combo for Stalin" but a lot of others would probably be very offended and that's ok.

    It's funny how we can think of Wolverine as "non problematic". Just a murderer who casually murders with his murder claws! He once murdered Northstar! Thread loop! Zemo meanwhile seems sort of...OK? Apart from that time he ripped up Captain America's pictures of his mum. That was proper evil. 😐😐

    Oh man I agonized over who to pick for that spot, and I still failed! Who works better? Doop?

    Again though, this makes the point -- someone is always going to be offended by a character. It makes no sense for them to remove Wolverine because one guy is upset about claw murder.

    But at the same time, you can't just throw up your hands and say "well someone is always going to be offended" and start adding characters that everyone is offended by. You have to actually use your brain and listen to people.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,535 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    Everybody's got a line. There's a continuum between someone completely non-problematic, like, I dunno, Wolverine, and Hitler (Earth-616). The trick is to ignore some loud minority who's super offended at Wolverine (down with Canada!), while respecting what I'd assume is a large majority of players who aren't interested in playing as Hitler.

    Personally I don't care much about these characters or their lore, for me they're just a pile of mechanics, so if they decided to start adding famous real-life dictators or serial killers I'd be asking "can I find a fun combo for Stalin" but a lot of others would probably be very offended and that's ok.

    It's funny how we can think of Wolverine as "non problematic". Just a murderer who casually murders with his murder claws! He once murdered Northstar! Thread loop! Zemo meanwhile seems sort of...OK? Apart from that time he ripped up Captain America's pictures of his mum. That was proper evil. 😐😐

    Oh man I agonized over who to pick for that spot, and I still failed! Who works better? Doop?

    Again though, this makes the point -- someone is always going to be offended by a character. It makes no sense for them to remove Wolverine because one guy is upset about claw murder.

    But at the same time, you can't just throw up your hands and say "well someone is always going to be offended" and start adding characters that everyone is offended by. You have to actually use your brain and listen to people.

    It's true. You can't win, especially after Marvel went grim n gritty in the late 80s. All of these characters ended up flawed. Even Captain America. Doop is not a morally good character if you read the comic books! I will pick Rom as Steve Ditko agreed to draw him and Steve Ditko would not draw anybody at all that he thought was "flawed"*

    *Wait but... didn't he co-create Spider-Man?!?!? Well yes but Spidey was just a kid then and kids can be flawed. Not my rules!

  • Chrynos1989
    Chrynos1989 Posts: 507 Critical Contributor

    @GrimSkald said:

    @The Viceroy Returns said:
    Love the OG comic-based character. We don't need more random Spider-Man variants I've never heard of.
    Kit wise we'll have to see. Doesn't seem good at first glance. Donno who I'd drop out of my current rotation of early-champed 5 stars (mid to high 450-ish Level range) for this.

    If they are willing to dip into a comic reference like this that fills "missing lore" in the roster, maybe we will get Red Skull eventually someday...

    I really hope we don't get either Strucker or the Red Skull. It's one thing to have villains as playable characters in this game. It's something quite else to have Nazis as playable characters in this game.

    I'm not 100% happy with Zemo, to be honest, but at least he himself isn't really a Nazi and they've even flirted with giving him good motivations in the 616 (weird, I know, but they did.)

    Does Red Skull actually still count as a Nazi? Didn’t he just ride that train until he was powerful enough to do his own agenda, defecting from the 3rd Reich and pursue his own plans of becoming a worldconquering, megalomanic ***hole? Strucker I can‘t remember actually, don‘t think he was that important, but RS as Caps archnemesis is actually an impactful character

  • Blackstone
    Blackstone Posts: 754 Critical Contributor

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    Everybody's got a line. There's a continuum between someone completely non-problematic, like, I dunno, Wolverine, and Hitler (Earth-616). The trick is to ignore some loud minority who's super offended at Wolverine (down with Canada!), while respecting what I'd assume is a large majority of players who aren't interested in playing as Hitler.

    Personally I don't care much about these characters or their lore, for me they're just a pile of mechanics, so if they decided to start adding famous real-life dictators or serial killers I'd be asking "can I find a fun combo for Stalin" but a lot of others would probably be very offended and that's ok.

    It's funny how we can think of Wolverine as "non problematic". Just a murderer who casually murders with his murder claws! He once murdered Northstar! Thread loop! Zemo meanwhile seems sort of...OK? Apart from that time he ripped up Captain America's pictures of his mum. That was proper evil. 😐😐

    Oh man I agonized over who to pick for that spot, and I still failed! Who works better? Doop?

    Again though, this makes the point -- someone is always going to be offended by a character. It makes no sense for them to remove Wolverine because one guy is upset about claw murder.

    But at the same time, you can't just throw up your hands and say "well someone is always going to be offended" and start adding characters that everyone is offended by. You have to actually use your brain and listen to people.

    Exactly. Which is why the conversation must be had.

    As for finding a character guaranteed to not offend anyone...lol.

    Offense is one of those rare things in which one may take as much one pleases, even when there's none being given.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,535 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Chrynos1989 said:

    @GrimSkald said:

    @The Viceroy Returns said:
    Love the OG comic-based character. We don't need more random Spider-Man variants I've never heard of.
    Kit wise we'll have to see. Doesn't seem good at first glance. Donno who I'd drop out of my current rotation of early-champed 5 stars (mid to high 450-ish Level range) for this.

    If they are willing to dip into a comic reference like this that fills "missing lore" in the roster, maybe we will get Red Skull eventually someday...

    I really hope we don't get either Strucker or the Red Skull. It's one thing to have villains as playable characters in this game. It's something quite else to have Nazis as playable characters in this game.

    I'm not 100% happy with Zemo, to be honest, but at least he himself isn't really a Nazi and they've even flirted with giving him good motivations in the 616 (weird, I know, but they did.)

    Does Red Skull actually still count as a Nazi? Didn’t he just ride that train until he was powerful enough to do his own agenda, defecting from the 3rd Reich and pursue his own plans of becoming a worldconquering, megalomanic ***hole? Strucker I can‘t remember actually, don‘t think he was that important, but RS as Caps archnemesis is actually an impactful character

    Red Skull assigned Strucker to create a new organisation to further the third Reich. Strucker deviated from that and instead created Hydra for his own purposes. Strucker is the comic book creator of HYDRA which was meant to counter SHIELD and the Skull was secondary and at times at odds with Hydra. I dunno whether Skull was exactly a Nazi still after their fall but he held views in the comic books which were akin to them, often involving a master race and destruction of democracy. Zemo allied himself with the Skull but just as much fought him.

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,728 Chairperson of the Boards

    Particularly since Zemo himself is not particularly problematic, at least in a Doylesian (i.e. in a Meta, writing sense, not in the fictional universe) way, I agree that this is a topic best left for it's own thread. But people were making "Red Skull" noises and I felt I had to speak up. I feel he's a bridge too far.

  • Falconfreak
    Falconfreak Posts: 122 Tile Toppler

    So who is the feeder(s) for him? I'm geeked we finally have him in the game. I don't care how powerful he is, always loved him as being the honorable bad guy.

  • WhiteBomber
    WhiteBomber Posts: 753 Critical Contributor

    @Read_Only said:
    Saw all the posts, assumed this might be a good character, but nah a bunch of **** posting that doesn't belong in a new release thread.

    There is no LoL button, so please accept this as my LoL interaction :lol: (no sarcasm)

  • JoeHandle
    JoeHandle Posts: 727 Critical Contributor

    @Falconfreak said:
    So who is the feeder(s) for him? I'm geeked we finally have him in the game. I don't care how powerful he is, always loved him as being the honorable bad guy.

    Nobody yet. Find out in a couple's weeks. They said Coming Soon(TM) and ... they mean it. :D

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 3,028 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 21 August 2025, 20:02

    The devs have so much on their plate just trying to get the game to function properly that they couldn't deal with the possibility of releasing another broken character. Calculated.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,535 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Read_Only said:
    Saw all the posts, assumed this might be a good character, but nah a bunch of **** posting that doesn't belong in a new release thread.

    You Read Only though so don't have to comment!

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,052 Chairperson of the Boards

    What does belong in a new release thread? This is at least tangentially related to the character. He's got no feeder so nobody has any idea if he's good yet.

    At least it's better than the 5000 other threads on here that are nothing but "game is dying!" or "murder the evil devs!"

  • SaltnPeppa
    SaltnPeppa Posts: 424 Mover and Shaker
    edited 22 August 2025 01:22

    Going to call it now, the feeders will be Songbird and Grim Reaper. So Grim Reaper can feed in December to 5* Simon Williams aka Wonder Man, right in time for the show's release.

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 6,373 Chairperson of the Boards

    On Discord, s0kun said the next 4 on 9/4 will be a feeder for Zemo.

  • Read_Only
    Read_Only Posts: 15 Just Dropped In

    @entrailbucket said:

    He's got no feeder so nobody has any idea if he's good yet.

    Yes because that's never stopped and 20 page thread on whats good bad and ugly about a new release before.

  • JoeHandle
    JoeHandle Posts: 727 Critical Contributor

    How can we fix the problem of releaseing broken new characters?

    Well, if there's no feeder ... and new char offer is bugged ... then no one can play them for awhile, and no one will notice they are broken!

    Brilliant! Make it so!

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