New Character - Baron Zemo (Helmut Zemo) 5*

DAZ0273

@entrailbucket said:
Everybody's got a line. There's a continuum between someone completely non-problematic, like, I dunno, Wolverine, and Hitler (Earth-616). The trick is to ignore some loud minority who's super offended at Wolverine (down with Canada!), while respecting what I'd assume is a large majority of players who aren't interested in playing as Hitler.

Personally I don't care much about these characters or their lore, for me they're just a pile of mechanics, so if they decided to start adding famous real-life dictators or serial killers I'd be asking "can I find a fun combo for Stalin" but a lot of others would probably be very offended and that's ok.

It's funny how we can think of Wolverine as "non problematic". Just a murderer who casually murders with his murder claws! He once murdered Northstar! Thread loop! Zemo meanwhile seems sort of...OK? Apart from that time he ripped up Captain America's pictures of his mum. That was proper evil. 😐😐

entrailbucket

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:
Everybody's got a line. There's a continuum between someone completely non-problematic, like, I dunno, Wolverine, and Hitler (Earth-616). The trick is to ignore some loud minority who's super offended at Wolverine (down with Canada!), while respecting what I'd assume is a large majority of players who aren't interested in playing as Hitler.

Personally I don't care much about these characters or their lore, for me they're just a pile of mechanics, so if they decided to start adding famous real-life dictators or serial killers I'd be asking "can I find a fun combo for Stalin" but a lot of others would probably be very offended and that's ok.

It's funny how we can think of Wolverine as "non problematic". Just a murderer who casually murders with his murder claws! He once murdered Northstar! Thread loop! Zemo meanwhile seems sort of...OK? Apart from that time he ripped up Captain America's pictures of his mum. That was proper evil. 😐😐

Oh man I agonized over who to pick for that spot, and I still failed! Who works better? Doop?

Again though, this makes the point -- someone is always going to be offended by a character. It makes no sense for them to remove Wolverine because one guy is upset about claw murder.

But at the same time, you can't just throw up your hands and say "well someone is always going to be offended" and start adding characters that everyone is offended by. You have to actually use your brain and listen to people.

Chrynos1989

Ah yes, Baron Zemo, a real villain, not like his cousin, Viscount Temu, who started selling **** to naive fools!

DAZ0273

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:
Everybody's got a line. There's a continuum between someone completely non-problematic, like, I dunno, Wolverine, and Hitler (Earth-616). The trick is to ignore some loud minority who's super offended at Wolverine (down with Canada!), while respecting what I'd assume is a large majority of players who aren't interested in playing as Hitler.

Personally I don't care much about these characters or their lore, for me they're just a pile of mechanics, so if they decided to start adding famous real-life dictators or serial killers I'd be asking "can I find a fun combo for Stalin" but a lot of others would probably be very offended and that's ok.

It's funny how we can think of Wolverine as "non problematic". Just a murderer who casually murders with his murder claws! He once murdered Northstar! Thread loop! Zemo meanwhile seems sort of...OK? Apart from that time he ripped up Captain America's pictures of his mum. That was proper evil. 😐😐

Oh man I agonized over who to pick for that spot, and I still failed! Who works better? Doop?

Again though, this makes the point -- someone is always going to be offended by a character. It makes no sense for them to remove Wolverine because one guy is upset about claw murder.

But at the same time, you can't just throw up your hands and say "well someone is always going to be offended" and start adding characters that everyone is offended by. You have to actually use your brain and listen to people.

It's true. You can't win, especially after Marvel went grim n gritty in the late 80s. All of these characters ended up flawed. Even Captain America. Doop is not a morally good character if you read the comic books! I will pick Rom as Steve Ditko agreed to draw him and Steve Ditko would not draw anybody at all that he thought was "flawed"*

*Wait but... didn't he co-create Spider-Man?!?!? Well yes but Spidey was just a kid then and kids can be flawed. Not my rules!

Chrynos1989

@GrimSkald said:

@The Viceroy Returns said:
Love the OG comic-based character. We don't need more random Spider-Man variants I've never heard of.
Kit wise we'll have to see. Doesn't seem good at first glance. Donno who I'd drop out of my current rotation of early-champed 5 stars (mid to high 450-ish Level range) for this.

If they are willing to dip into a comic reference like this that fills "missing lore" in the roster, maybe we will get Red Skull eventually someday...

I really hope we don't get either Strucker or the Red Skull. It's one thing to have villains as playable characters in this game. It's something quite else to have Nazis as playable characters in this game.

I'm not 100% happy with Zemo, to be honest, but at least he himself isn't really a Nazi and they've even flirted with giving him good motivations in the 616 (weird, I know, but they did.)

Does Red Skull actually still count as a Nazi? Didn’t he just ride that train until he was powerful enough to do his own agenda, defecting from the 3rd Reich and pursue his own plans of becoming a worldconquering, megalomanic ***hole? Strucker I can‘t remember actually, don‘t think he was that important, but RS as Caps archnemesis is actually an impactful character

Blackstone

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:
Everybody's got a line. There's a continuum between someone completely non-problematic, like, I dunno, Wolverine, and Hitler (Earth-616). The trick is to ignore some loud minority who's super offended at Wolverine (down with Canada!), while respecting what I'd assume is a large majority of players who aren't interested in playing as Hitler.

Personally I don't care much about these characters or their lore, for me they're just a pile of mechanics, so if they decided to start adding famous real-life dictators or serial killers I'd be asking "can I find a fun combo for Stalin" but a lot of others would probably be very offended and that's ok.

It's funny how we can think of Wolverine as "non problematic". Just a murderer who casually murders with his murder claws! He once murdered Northstar! Thread loop! Zemo meanwhile seems sort of...OK? Apart from that time he ripped up Captain America's pictures of his mum. That was proper evil. 😐😐

Oh man I agonized over who to pick for that spot, and I still failed! Who works better? Doop?

Again though, this makes the point -- someone is always going to be offended by a character. It makes no sense for them to remove Wolverine because one guy is upset about claw murder.

But at the same time, you can't just throw up your hands and say "well someone is always going to be offended" and start adding characters that everyone is offended by. You have to actually use your brain and listen to people.

Exactly. Which is why the conversation must be had.

As for finding a character guaranteed to not offend anyone...lol.

Offense is one of those rare things in which one may take as much one pleases, even when there's none being given.

DAZ0273

@Chrynos1989 said:

@GrimSkald said:

@The Viceroy Returns said:
Love the OG comic-based character. We don't need more random Spider-Man variants I've never heard of.
Kit wise we'll have to see. Doesn't seem good at first glance. Donno who I'd drop out of my current rotation of early-champed 5 stars (mid to high 450-ish Level range) for this.

If they are willing to dip into a comic reference like this that fills "missing lore" in the roster, maybe we will get Red Skull eventually someday...

I really hope we don't get either Strucker or the Red Skull. It's one thing to have villains as playable characters in this game. It's something quite else to have Nazis as playable characters in this game.

I'm not 100% happy with Zemo, to be honest, but at least he himself isn't really a Nazi and they've even flirted with giving him good motivations in the 616 (weird, I know, but they did.)

Does Red Skull actually still count as a Nazi? Didn’t he just ride that train until he was powerful enough to do his own agenda, defecting from the 3rd Reich and pursue his own plans of becoming a worldconquering, megalomanic ***hole? Strucker I can‘t remember actually, don‘t think he was that important, but RS as Caps archnemesis is actually an impactful character

Red Skull assigned Strucker to create a new organisation to further the third Reich. Strucker deviated from that and instead created Hydra for his own purposes. Strucker is the comic book creator of HYDRA which was meant to counter SHIELD and the Skull was secondary and at times at odds with Hydra. I dunno whether Skull was exactly a Nazi still after their fall but he held views in the comic books which were akin to them, often involving a master race and destruction of democracy. Zemo allied himself with the Skull but just as much fought him.

GrimSkald

Particularly since Zemo himself is not particularly problematic, at least in a Doylesian (i.e. in a Meta, writing sense, not in the fictional universe) way, I agree that this is a topic best left for it's own thread. But people were making "Red Skull" noises and I felt I had to speak up. I feel he's a bridge too far.

Falconfreak

So who is the feeder(s) for him? I'm geeked we finally have him in the game. I don't care how powerful he is, always loved him as being the honorable bad guy.

Read_Only

Saw all the posts, assumed this might be a good character, but nah a bunch of **** posting that doesn't belong in a new release thread.

WhiteBomber

@Read_Only said:
Saw all the posts, assumed this might be a good character, but nah a bunch of **** posting that doesn't belong in a new release thread.

There is no LoL button, so please accept this as my LoL interaction (no sarcasm)

JoeHandle

@Falconfreak said:
So who is the feeder(s) for him? I'm geeked we finally have him in the game. I don't care how powerful he is, always loved him as being the honorable bad guy.

Nobody yet. Find out in a couple's weeks. They said Coming Soon(TM) and ... they mean it.

Borstock

The devs have so much on their plate just trying to get the game to function properly that they couldn't deal with the possibility of releasing another broken character. Calculated.

Blackstone

@Read_Only said:
Saw all the posts, assumed this might be a good character, but nah a bunch of **** posting that doesn't belong in a new release thread.

I beg of you precisely one thousand pardons.
Please understand most of these comments were posted prior to his release.

Even now, his in game version is but a newly hatched youngling, and no one has any idea if he "might be a good character" or not.

I understand you made an assumption and felt disappointed when that assumption proved inadequate to the contents of this thread, but there was really no logical reason to expect a full review on a brand new character this soon. Especially a five star with no feeder.

Regardless, thank you so much for informing me of where my opinions do and do not belong. I shall do my very best to avoid disappointing you in the future. At least, by accident.

To that end, I can inform you that I fully intend to pull specifically for the purpose of championing Zemo to the 500-550 level range.

You, however, should feel free to skip him entirely. He's not worth your time.

On a serious note: he hasn't been played enough to be certain about anything. Manage your expectations. Otherwise, have a great day.

DAZ0273

@Read_Only said:
Saw all the posts, assumed this might be a good character, but nah a bunch of **** posting that doesn't belong in a new release thread.

You Read Only though so don't have to comment!

entrailbucket

What does belong in a new release thread? This is at least tangentially related to the character. He's got no feeder so nobody has any idea if he's good yet.

At least it's better than the 5000 other threads on here that are nothing but "game is dying!" or "murder the evil devs!"

SaltnPeppa

Going to call it now, the feeders will be Songbird and Grim Reaper. So Grim Reaper can feed in December to 5* Simon Williams aka Wonder Man, right in time for the show's release.

bluewolf

On Discord, s0kun said the next 4 on 9/4 will be a feeder for Zemo.

Read_Only

@entrailbucket said:

He's got no feeder so nobody has any idea if he's good yet.

Yes because that's never stopped and 20 page thread on whats good bad and ugly about a new release before.

JoeHandle

How can we fix the problem of releaseing broken new characters?

Well, if there's no feeder ... and new char offer is bugged ... then no one can play them for awhile, and no one will notice they are broken!

Brilliant! Make it so!