New Character - Baron Zemo (Helmut Zemo) 5*

@KGB said:

@JoeHandle said:

@S0kun said:

@IamGrootacus said:
Most obvious feeder is Moonstone. Would be more apt if he were Citizen V but he has a thunderbolts affiliation. Maybe a secondary with Taskmaster. I would like to see a Crossbones or Arnim Zola be brought in to be a feeder though.

He won't have a feeder upon release since one of them is an upcoming character.

He won't have a feeder because one of them is upcoming?

Not "both ... are" but "one ... is"?

But the post shows a primary and a secondary, and both as "COMING SOON!"

So are one or both upcoming?

If only one is upcoming, why no feeder at launch?

Or is the post wrong, and there is only one feeder expected, not two?

It's a stock image.

I understood the purpose of the post was to let players know that there was no reason to go crazy trying to put levels on some existing 4 star in hopes of double dipping some extra covers.

In other words he will have ZERO feeders at launch and we are getting 1 feeder very soon (maybe as soon as the next 4) and the other feeder slot will remain open until such time as it makes sense for another character to go there.

KGB

Thanks to S0kun for letting us know- I was truly torn on whether or not to champ Moonstone, it is nice not to have that hanging over me and I can spend iso as I please.

I read the feeder comment as no PRIMARY feeder at launch, but yes to secondary. Very few covers likely regardless. But I guess we'll see

Thanks to S0kun for letting us know- I was truly torn on whether or not to champ Moonstone, it is nice not to have that hanging over me and I can spend iso as I please.

She already is the primary feeder for Winter Soldier.

@The Viceroy Returns said:
Love the OG comic-based character. We don't need more random Spider-Man variants I've never heard of.
Kit wise we'll have to see. Doesn't seem good at first glance. Donno who I'd drop out of my current rotation of early-champed 5 stars (mid to high 450-ish Level range) for this.

If they are willing to dip into a comic reference like this that fills "missing lore" in the roster, maybe we will get Red Skull eventually someday...

I really hope we don't get either Strucker or the Red Skull. It's one thing to have villains as playable characters in this game. It's something quite else to have Nazis as playable characters in this game.

I'm not 100% happy with Zemo, to be honest, but at least he himself isn't really a Nazi and they've even flirted with giving him good motivations in the 616 (weird, I know, but they did.)

@GrimSkald said:

@The Viceroy Returns said:
Love the OG comic-based character. We don't need more random Spider-Man variants I've never heard of.
Kit wise we'll have to see. Doesn't seem good at first glance. Donno who I'd drop out of my current rotation of early-champed 5 stars (mid to high 450-ish Level range) for this.

If they are willing to dip into a comic reference like this that fills "missing lore" in the roster, maybe we will get Red Skull eventually someday...

I really hope we don't get either Strucker or the Red Skull. It's one thing to have villains as playable characters in this game. It's something quite else to have Nazis as playable characters in this game.

I'm not 100% happy with Zemo, to be honest, but at least he himself isn't really a Nazi and they've even flirted with giving him good motivations in the 616 (weird, I know, but they did.)

Some players seem to really want Red Skull, and I imagine plenty also don't want him for the reason you stated. For the longest time I thought he wasn't here because of Marvel, but he seems to be in many other Marvel games, so who knows. Maybe these devs just don't want to deal with a potential controversy.

This does remind me of what happened when they added 3* Colossus, many years ago. Initially his tile symbol was the hammer and sickle, and that prompted a pretty immediate, vigorous reaction from some Eastern European players. In many places (often former Soviet states), the hammer and sickle is equivalent to the swastika (which makes quite a bit of sense if you think about it) and those players were quite upset. It was changed very quickly.

@Blackstone said:

@GrimSkald said:

@The Viceroy Returns said:
Love the OG comic-based character. We don't need more random Spider-Man variants I've never heard of.
Kit wise we'll have to see. Doesn't seem good at first glance. Donno who I'd drop out of my current rotation of early-champed 5 stars (mid to high 450-ish Level range) for this.

If they are willing to dip into a comic reference like this that fills "missing lore" in the roster, maybe we will get Red Skull eventually someday...

I really hope we don't get either Strucker or the Red Skull. It's one thing to have villains as playable characters in this game. It's something quite else to have Nazis as playable characters in this game.

I'm not 100% happy with Zemo, to be honest, but at least he himself isn't really a Nazi and they've even flirted with giving him good motivations in the 616 (weird, I know, but they did.)

I'm going to get some blowback for this, but I disagree with the idea that nazis should be off limits.

Villains are evil. They do terrible things. They are an integral part of any story in which a hero overcomes adversity. For this reason, their motivations should reflect real world issues that people have been forced to face.

If we segment out specific evil as not allowed to be included, the people who have had to deal with the consequences of that evil in the real world are left with one less outlet for dealing with their pain.

I understand the viewpoint of "nazis shouldn't be represented" and I respect it. I'm simply offering a counterpoint. They shouldn't be presented as good or right but, if done correctly, they can highlight the flaws of such beliefs, help victims feel seen, and demonstrate that such evil can be overcome.

Deleting them from comic book villains removes them from the evil that our heroes fight against.

Nazis are terrible people who do terrible things for terrible reasons. If Captain America won't fight them... Someone else should hold the shield.

To be perfectly blunt, this isn't really because of what the character did, it's because of what the character represents. Most of the truly heinous characters have done awful things, certainly, and to a degree allowing us, the game-playing audience, to think they're "cool" is kind of nasty, but that's not really the problem. The problem is the real-world people this individual was a part of did their damnedest to wipe my (and many others) people off the face of the earth. I don't want to play as him, ever. I don't want to see his symbolism in the game on my board. I'd play against him in a boss event, sure, but not as him.

@GrimSkald said:

@Blackstone said:

@GrimSkald said:

@The Viceroy Returns said:
Love the OG comic-based character. We don't need more random Spider-Man variants I've never heard of.
Kit wise we'll have to see. Doesn't seem good at first glance. Donno who I'd drop out of my current rotation of early-champed 5 stars (mid to high 450-ish Level range) for this.

If they are willing to dip into a comic reference like this that fills "missing lore" in the roster, maybe we will get Red Skull eventually someday...

I really hope we don't get either Strucker or the Red Skull. It's one thing to have villains as playable characters in this game. It's something quite else to have Nazis as playable characters in this game.

I'm not 100% happy with Zemo, to be honest, but at least he himself isn't really a Nazi and they've even flirted with giving him good motivations in the 616 (weird, I know, but they did.)

I'm going to get some blowback for this, but I disagree with the idea that nazis should be off limits.

Villains are evil. They do terrible things. They are an integral part of any story in which a hero overcomes adversity. For this reason, their motivations should reflect real world issues that people have been forced to face.

If we segment out specific evil as not allowed to be included, the people who have had to deal with the consequences of that evil in the real world are left with one less outlet for dealing with their pain.

I understand the viewpoint of "nazis shouldn't be represented" and I respect it. I'm simply offering a counterpoint. They shouldn't be presented as good or right but, if done correctly, they can highlight the flaws of such beliefs, help victims feel seen, and demonstrate that such evil can be overcome.

Deleting them from comic book villains removes them from the evil that our heroes fight against.

Nazis are terrible people who do terrible things for terrible reasons. If Captain America won't fight them... Someone else should hold the shield.

To be perfectly blunt, this isn't really because of what the character did, it's because of what the character represents. Most of the truly heinous characters have done awful things, certainly, and to a degree allowing us, the game-playing audience, to think they're "cool" is kind of nasty, but that's not really the problem. The problem is the real-world people this individual was a part of did their damnedest to wipe my (and many others) people off the face of the earth. I don't want to play as him, ever. I don't want to see his symbolism in the game on my board. I'd play against him in a boss event, sure, but not as him.

I understand that viewpoint and I respect it. I'm not trying to change your mind about anything.

My wife is Jewish, but I can't claim the same so I don't have a direct connection to that particular atrocity.

My father and his grandfather were born on a reservation that my grandfather's grandfather was marched to.

But that result of colonization doesn't reach attempted genocide... But I could understand if someone chose to play as figures related to the event.

I fought terrorists in multiple countries. I could understand people not wanting to play as terrorists.

I've been to countries where genocides are still a real concern as warlords rampage through the villages they want to wipe from the earth. They're not nazis but they kill for the same kind of hate. And I can understand why someone would choose to not play as character representing those groups.

I could keep going, but the point is: choosing to not play as characters we recognize as having done something we have a personal connection to is completely valid.

With the counterpoint being: if we remove one thing that affects one group, why aren't we removing the other things? And at what point do have no villains left to fight?

I'm not sure any of that will make sense.

I have asked for Zemo for a while... Not because I think he's cool, but because I think he's a great villain. There's a difference.

Anyway, as I said, I'm not trying to charge your mind, just trying to explain a different point of view. It seems to me that if we refuse to include one kind of villain, we would logically need to remove them all as playable characters.