Introducing the All-New Cover Exchange System!

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Comments

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,468 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Zarqa said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    My issue with the swaps has always been that they should've been available to those folks, and should never have been available to anyone else. VIPs get VIP treatment. Nobody else is entitled to that. If you treat everyone like a VIP, it's no longer a benefit for actual VIPs.

    This is objectively not true. There are so many posts here on this forum where you’ve advocated that there should be more transparency from the Devs about the swaps, so that more people knew about it and everyone could and should (!) benefit from it.

    Wrong, and I've been quite clear about it. I said they shouldn't have made it available for just anyone, but if it was available to anyone, it should have been publicly available to everyone.

    The way they did it was actually the worst possible case -- it was gated not by spending but by knowledge of the system. A huge spender who somehow wasn't "in the know" would never have been able to use this at all. And there have been plenty of these players over the years.

    Do you know this for a fact or just speculating? Of course there is no way to either prove or disapprove it so I will state my opinion: I can't imagine anyone considered a "huge spender" didn't either know about it or they just didn't care. Either way, it wouldn't have been a problem to them. Again, in my opinion as I do not consider my opinions to be actual facts.

  • Zarqa
    Zarqa Posts: 354 Mover and Shaker

    Another thing to point out is that EB frequently mentions that anyone in these forums, Discord, or Reddit are not representative of common, causal, or newer players.

    All I can say is that in the past several months, Discord has seen very active newer players. The ‘new player experience’ channel is active daily. The ‘General’ channel sees more posts from people who just started or recently returned than veteran players. And on a weekly basis, we get questions from single-posters who just want to know a specific answer.

    It’s not huge numbers, but I’ve noticed a clear change. It’s big enough that I no longer believe Discord is mostly for veteran players.

  • Pantera236
    Pantera236 Posts: 529 Critical Contributor

    Reddit also is a place where lots of newer players go to. Probably because if you Google search mpq you'll get a lot of reddit posts. I know a lot of people, not just EB, say this forum should be where everything is posted 1st (or at all lol) but the truth is other sites just get more traffic.

  • Zarqa
    Zarqa Posts: 354 Mover and Shaker

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Zarqa said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    My issue with the swaps has always been that they should've been available to those folks, and should never have been available to anyone else. VIPs get VIP treatment. Nobody else is entitled to that. If you treat everyone like a VIP, it's no longer a benefit for actual VIPs.

    This is objectively not true. There are so many posts here on this forum where you’ve advocated that there should be more transparency from the Devs about the swaps, so that more people knew about it and everyone could and should (!) benefit from it.

    Wrong, and I've been quite clear about it. I said they shouldn't have made it available for just anyone, but if it was available to anyone, it should have been publicly available to everyone.

    The way they did it was actually the worst possible case -- it was gated not by spending but by knowledge of the system. A huge spender who somehow wasn't "in the know" would never have been able to use this at all. And there have been plenty of these players over the years.

    I disagree and I don’t think you’ve been quite clear about it. I appreciate the Dec 13 quote from LavaManLee. I’m not going to search through your 1000s of posts to make my case, which means I can’t prove it. I’ve read your discourse except for the many Nerf MThor threads, and this VIP argument came in strongly as a surprising pivot in your arguments.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,001 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2024

    I'm back to not caring -- I felt like I had to address that other guy's point, even though I knew it was a bad idea. Yes, I'm a hypocrite, bad faith, troll, whatever you need to disregard the opinions of someone who differs from you. I deleted a bunch of stuff which will hopefully stop anyone replying further.

    Why can't we mute threads?

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,468 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Zarqa said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Zarqa said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    My issue with the swaps has always been that they should've been available to those folks, and should never have been available to anyone else. VIPs get VIP treatment. Nobody else is entitled to that. If you treat everyone like a VIP, it's no longer a benefit for actual VIPs.

    This is objectively not true. There are so many posts here on this forum where you’ve advocated that there should be more transparency from the Devs about the swaps, so that more people knew about it and everyone could and should (!) benefit from it.

    Wrong, and I've been quite clear about it. I said they shouldn't have made it available for just anyone, but if it was available to anyone, it should have been publicly available to everyone.

    The way they did it was actually the worst possible case -- it was gated not by spending but by knowledge of the system. A huge spender who somehow wasn't "in the know" would never have been able to use this at all. And there have been plenty of these players over the years.

    I disagree and I don’t think you’ve been quite clear about it. I appreciate the Dec 13 quote from LavaManLee. I’m not going to search through your 1000s of posts to make my case, which means I can’t prove it. I’ve read your discourse except for the many Nerf MThor threads, and this VIP argument came in strongly as a surprising pivot in your arguments.

    The number one thing that entrailbucket enjoys as Schadenfreude. Whether it's about keeping other players scores lower in PVP or having someone nerfed that people spent resources on or changes to the game that other players don't like. There is enjoyment in other people's misery that is occurring in those posts.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,001 Chairperson of the Boards

    @LavaManLee said:

    @Zarqa said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Zarqa said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    My issue with the swaps has always been that they should've been available to those folks, and should never have been available to anyone else. VIPs get VIP treatment. Nobody else is entitled to that. If you treat everyone like a VIP, it's no longer a benefit for actual VIPs.

    This is objectively not true. There are so many posts here on this forum where you’ve advocated that there should be more transparency from the Devs about the swaps, so that more people knew about it and everyone could and should (!) benefit from it.

    Wrong, and I've been quite clear about it. I said they shouldn't have made it available for just anyone, but if it was available to anyone, it should have been publicly available to everyone.

    The way they did it was actually the worst possible case -- it was gated not by spending but by knowledge of the system. A huge spender who somehow wasn't "in the know" would never have been able to use this at all. And there have been plenty of these players over the years.

    I disagree and I don’t think you’ve been quite clear about it. I appreciate the Dec 13 quote from LavaManLee. I’m not going to search through your 1000s of posts to make my case, which means I can’t prove it. I’ve read your discourse except for the many Nerf MThor threads, and this VIP argument came in strongly as a surprising pivot in your arguments.

    The number one thing that entrailbucket enjoys as Schadenfreude. Whether it's about keeping other players scores lower in PVP or having someone nerfed that people spent resources on or changes to the game that other players don't like. There is enjoyment in other people's misery that is occurring in those posts.

    Is this really relevant to the discussion at hand?

    I do certainly appreciate the tens of thousands of words of amateur psychoanalysis (or, oh wait "professional" LOL) you guys have dedicated to someone who disagrees with you about a phone game, but you've never met me and you have no idea what I'm like outside of said phone game's online forum.

  • will7612
    will7612 Posts: 100 Tile Toppler

    @Scofie said:
    I see my message of positivity and understanding and sticking to the feedback of the system fell on a variety of deaf ears...

    Lets just say, Merry Christmas (past) and Happy New Year 2025 (present/future).

    This has been one of the most commented theme so far (16 pages in a couple weeks)

  • Bullroarer
    Bullroarer Posts: 27 Just Dropped In

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Bullroarer said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Daredevil217 said:
    That last part was a joke, which I thought I made pretty clear (yeesh). The question I’m asking is did they poll the tens of thousands of players before making the change to the game economy? I really could have missed it so don’t remember. If not, then where are they getting feedback from?

    I honestly have no idea what you're talking about or why and at this point I don't care.

    I won't answer anything else in this thread -- keep using it as an echo chamber for the top .01% of players to complain about something that only hurts them and is a big, positive development for everyone else.

    Happy holidays to everyone!

    5. You dismiss those voicing concern as being somehow entitled/spoilt.

    Again, everybody is well within their rights to speak up about anything, especially something that affects them directly.

    The LLS swaps change is huge. You don't see it as huge because you don't see it as affecting you, but, as I've tried to explain, it affects us all, because it was the driving force for a considerable amount of hardcore high roller spending, and that hardcore high roller spending helps make the game viable.

    Those are players (customers) that the game simply can't afford to lose.

    I don't consider myself among them — I think that my spending on MPQ is relatively modest — but I know enough of them to know that some of them are reconsidering their relationship with MPQ because of this change, and that worries me.

    I really was done here, but I'd like to add that I totally agree with these points, and have said as much earlier.

    I have never opposed special treatment for these players. The sort of player who sits down and rips 10 starks in a sitting, several times a week, should get absolutely everything they want, with no conditions. They should be able to call the devs to express specific concerns. They should get input on the future of the game. They should get gifted extra stuff if they have an unlucky streak. (These were all things available to the whales I knew, who spent that at those levels).

    The game and its devs should do everything possible to keep the biggest spenders happy, and if these folks don't like the new system they should get the old one back -- but only for them.

    My issue with the swaps has always been that they should've been available to those folks, and should never have been available to anyone else. VIPs get VIP treatment. Nobody else is entitled to that. If you treat everyone like a VIP, it's no longer a benefit for actual VIPs.

    If they do put the swaps back, they should create a spend limit (either lifetime or per year) to qualify for the service. This will resolve everyone's concerns about revenue, and hopefully keep the whales around for many years to come.

    Fwiw I'd qualify for any such limit if it was based on lifetime spend. I've got 87 550s as of today, and most of my 5* are 500+. I'm pretty close to a day 1 player, who was involved in setting up many of those communities you're talking about, and participated in them for many years. I've never swapped a single cover, because I don't care about getting the most powerful or newest characters -- I want everyone.

    I'm still on Line, although it's private now (after the 100th or so death threat I got from upstanding community members upset about being attacked in the game, it got kind of tiresome). Eventually I realized the massive-cooperation playstyle was a mistake -- we should never have created it. I'm interested in playing with fun characters, making fun teams, and enjoying the gameplay these days, and I'm much happier for it.

    Oh -- and I mentor new players too. My alliance went public awhile back because we couldn't recruit anymore. We always banned buyclubs and mercing, and the new generation of players weren't interested in that sort of team play. We get all sorts of brand new folks now (sometimes on their first day), and the advice I give them is "just have fun." Don't worry about who's the best, or the fastest, or how to win the most. Figure out which characters are fun for you and what playstyle is the most fun and do that. And the second you stop having fun, even for a day, quit and don't look back.

    I've thought long and hard about how to respond to this reply from you, and whether to reply to it at all.

    I don't know if you were being serious with this reply or just trolling me but it feels like the latter.

    Just to be clear, I haven't called for special treatment for anybody, nor would I.

    I've argued that something that has been standard practice for six years should continue to be standard practice, or, at the very least, be phased out over a reasonable period of time.

    You disagree. That's your right, and I've said so many times.

    We can agree to disagree and just leave it at that. I would encourage you to do so, because you're not going to change my mind any more than I'm going to change yours.

    I've also said that I believe in being respectful and polite to people, even when you strongly disagree with them, and I meant that.

    I'm very sorry that you and others have exchanged heated words here.

    For my part I shall continue to be respectful and polite to you, despite the temptation to respond in a more heated fashion.

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,860 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2024

    From what I can see so far, people may not be spending as much, but this system definitely helps the haves lock in their status more because people with deep rosters are willing to burn hp on the lower character cover swaps and build up metas.

    It’s unclear if the devs thought through what it’ll be like when a whole lot of 3-5 Namors are in the game amongst the top players and people willing to spend.

    On the other hand they needed to find a way to create incentive for veteran people to use lots of hp constantly vs hoarding for special vaults. This system, as I said, is a good way to allow people to chase preferred characters via cash over the random offers which probably get low engagement because they aren’t appealing enough to enough people every time. Basically every day is “Choose your own adventure” day.

    And so maybe people are going to spend more, I guess. At least some.

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,672 Chairperson of the Boards

    @GrimSkald said:
    I do think we've been getting too bogged down in the nitty gritty of what we should expect from the game and what constitutes a feature of a game versus something added on. We should talk about the feature itself, eh?

    Now that we've had it for a week or two and I've had a chance to really examine it, I like it. I actually like it a lot. I've been using it on a few of my 2★s that I don't care about that much to "funnel" Nightcrawler toward being a 5★ -- I'll spend 100hp on an extra pull from Heroics or Vaults, it's definitely worth it to "favorite" a 2★ a few times a day. I'll probably do the same with some 3★s. As far as 5★s go... honestly it's still pretty tinykitty good. Assuming we'll never see 6★s/Extra levels on 5★s (they've said that the latter is more likely than the former,) duplicate 5★s are just reward machines - at 650 HP turning covers into another level on a good 5★ is not a bad deal, I think. My HP is pretty low because of the "December Deals" vault, but also because of that vault I got a lot of extra covers for my 550 Chasm, and I got Kitty to 550 using that vault. Instead of creating a duplicate, I can scatter those 5★ covers as I please. I may have to open some more LTs to get the HP to do it, but hey, if I end up with more Nova than I like I can do something with those covers too.

    The old system, being able to do it for free for the 550 5★s in Latest, was great for people who were willing to hoard for months. I hoard some, but just not that much. I think this works pretty well. No Schadenfreude here, just my own perspective.

    So because of some very specific cover application, I actually managed to get ahead of the HP game on my extra 5★ covers. I ended up scattering 13 5★ covers across my characters (all of the Chasm and Kitty I drew after maxing Kitty, two Okoye, and a Kang,) and went from around 6K to 11K Hero points. Of course, it helps that I had a 546 Apocalypse (and a 4|5★ Dark Beast, so I won't be getting extra covers or shards for him any time soon.)

    Theoretically I could have gotten those HP without spending HP, but eeh, it's fine, I would have needed to spend some resource, such as LTs. If they end up letting us "ascend" 5★ past 550 I may end up regretting it, but I kind of doubt it. I hate playing Chasm, Kitty and Okoye haven't aged well, and Kang only shines in very specific circumstances. Besides, a level or two won't make hardly any difference, particularly when dealing with "ifs"

  • Grizwald
    Grizwald Posts: 131 Tile Toppler

    @killahKlown said:
    Bro i don't know where your math came from but it takes me on average about 300 pulls to max a 5*

    Do you mean a 5* to 450 or to 550?

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,468 Chairperson of the Boards

    On a positive note about the new CES, it is way, way, way, way easier and quicker to champ a new 4*. Definitely appreciate that aspect of it.

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,289 Chairperson of the Boards

    @GrimSkald said:
    I do think we've been getting too bogged down in the nitty gritty of what we should expect from the game and what constitutes a feature of a game versus something added on. We should talk about the feature itself, eh?

    There's another useful feature no one has talked about yet. But for those ascending their 4s right away (370/270), if that 4 suddenly become a feeder and you were going to miss out on retro covers because your 450 ascended gets none, you can now open a few LTs and swap the covers to the ascended character to get them to 455 (or is it 456) where you get all the retro rewards. You'll need most of your 4s max champed of course but that applies to many of us here on the Forum. That's WAY better than before where you had to hope you could shard your way to 16ish covers in a short time frame.

    KGB

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