*** Sentry (Dark Avengers) ***

NorthernPolarity

Sacrifice + WR is as nonce said, 13152 damage to the entire enemy team for 7 green and 8 yellow. No other character, combinations of characters, hell even combinations of any ability in the game can come close to that damage output per AP, and if that isn't imbalanced, I don't know what is.

Unknown

Sentry's strength has nothing to do with him being strong on defense or his abilities being strong or anything like that.

The only thing that makes him imbalanced is that he can boost up to 5 AP for green and yellow (you can get 6, but that would be a waste of coveted all AP boosts). That way, he's 1 green match and 1 yellow match away from winning the game.

He makes shield hopping incredibly easy.

Even during the lightning rounds during the anniversary week, I got 1st place about 10 times (total of 30 tokens) because I would just start playing with 4 minutes left and got 2 or even 3 games in while most people only got 1 or, at most, 2.

That kind of speed kind of nullifies any fear of being attacked.

I can shield hop faster than you can attack me before I'm re-shielded.

Now, you mention that boosts are supposed to give you an advantage....Name one other character that can win the game in 4 turns when boosted. There is none. Sentry is in a class by himself. That's why people have a problem with it.

That's the only problem with Sentry.

On defense, he is pretty easy to short circuit. Even when he gets 8 yellow and 7 green, he'll cast WR then wait for all the tiles to proc before casting sacrifice. Stupid **** like that.

If they raised his abilities to 10 each, he would be balanced. Because then, you couldn't 3 turn instakill people, allowing people to reach 2000 or any **** like that.


But then that creates a new problem.

Since so many people hop off the backs of (by then shielded) X-men (among other top alliances) for 45-50 points each match, if they made Sentry bombing harder by raising the AP costs, everyone would suffer. Not just Sentry users.

I personally don't like Sentry for these reasons. But I, like so many others, will abuse him to advance my alliance and secure more covers for me and my friends.

Unknown

The reason why he is being nerfed is he can obliterate almost any team. With Rupture Sacrifice. And do it fast too. This in result has allowed people trying to Shield Hop to get games down fast, sometimes even more than they used to, per hop.

Since Sentry, scores have become inflated. 800 flat might not be enough to be called even a Top 25 score these days. Before Sentry, that would easily be a Top 10, or is not Top 25 score.

Unknown

The short answer: Yes, you are.

scottee

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Sacrifice + WR is as nonce said, 13152 damage to the entire enemy team for 7 green and 8 yellow. No other character, combinations of characters, hell even combinations of any ability in the game can come close to that damage output per AP, and if that isn't imbalanced, I don't know what is.

Deadpool is autowin with 14 purple, so technically less AP. But 7/8 is easier to get than 14, especially with boosts. But if you double boost and there's 3 purple matches on the board, Deadpool can win on turn 4.

NorthernPolarity

scottee wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Sacrifice + WR is as nonce said, 13152 damage to the entire enemy team for 7 green and 8 yellow. No other character, combinations of characters, hell even combinations of any ability in the game can come close to that damage output per AP, and if that isn't imbalanced, I don't know what is.

Deadpool is autowin with 14 purple, so technically less AP. But 7/8 is easier to get than 14, especially with boosts. But if you double boost and there's 3 purple matches on the board, Deadpool can win on turn 4.

I feel like that's a technicality because of deadpool points making the wins limited. I guess my original phrasing should be "who can win without having to wait a week for DP points to recharge".

Spoit

onimus wrote:

Sentry's strength has nothing to do with him being strong on defense or his abilities being strong or anything like that.

The only thing that makes him imbalanced is that he can boost up to 5 AP for green and yellow (you can get 6, but that would be a waste of coveted all AP boosts). That way, he's 1 green match and 1 yellow match away from winning the game.

He makes shield hopping incredibly easy.

Even during the lightning rounds during the anniversary week, I got 1st place about 10 times (total of 30 tokens) because I would just start playing with 4 minutes left and got 2 or even 3 games in while most people only got 1 or, at most, 2.

That kind of speed kind of nullifies any fear of being attacked.

I can shield hop faster than you can attack me before I'm re-shielded.

Now, you mention that boosts are supposed to give you an advantage....Name one other character that can win the game in 4 turns when boosted. There is none. Sentry is in a class by himself. That's why people have a problem with it.

That's the only problem with Sentry.

On defense, he is pretty easy to short circuit. Even when he gets 8 yellow and 7 green, he'll cast WR then wait for all the tiles to proc before casting sacrifice. Stupid tinykitty like that.

If they raised his abilities to 10 each, he would be balanced. Because then, you couldn't 3 turn instakill people, allowing people to reach 2000 or any tinykitty like that.


But then that creates a new problem.

Since so many people hop off the backs of (by then shielded) X-men (among other top alliances) for 45-50 points each match, if they made Sentry bombing harder by raising the AP costs, everyone would suffer. Not just Sentry users.

I personally don't like Sentry for these reasons. But I, like so many others, will abuse him to advance my alliance and secure more covers for me and my friends.

I disagree, since I'm usually too cheap to use HP boosts if I'm low on them, I'm often doing 4 match games, and that's still almost always quick enough to avoid any major powers. He can still shrug off even some heavy hitters like an X-force (though maybe not a SS) perfectly fine, and it's not like you really care about how much damage you're taking if you're using him anyway

Unknown

No matter how you want to compare it, Sentry is the fastest, most consistent win condition in the game. He just is. No other character can deal 13k AOE by turn 4. Then again, no other character has a move that does 13k AOE. The comparison to C.Mags is really dumb, because C.Mags, while busted, took time. You still had to throw out a few dozen abilities, which takes a while to down a high-health character. Sentry? In the typical match with sentry, you can break shield, end the match, and be back in your shield before another player even has a chance to *start* the match. They might get to the "fight" screen, but they aren't finishing that game before you're back in your shield unless you were careless (2-3 matches) or something went horribly wrong. Hell, even when I'm not shieldhopping, I still pull out my sentry as a "**** you" button when I see someone worth 40-50 points. Why? Because nobody else is that good! And this would hold true even if he had like 5k health (so long as sacrifice was proportionately costed). The fact that he has 10k health and three abilities which all suck for you if he activates them means that he's also a monster on defense as well.

Wait for the writeup on the character rankings where I explain it in detail. Sentry fundamentally breaks this game in a way I cannot begin to overstate. Go ask some of the top alliances. I should know - I did.

Unknown

What everyone else said, with two additional points:

1) Ignoring their other disadvantages, having Falcon, OBW, Bullseye, Spider-Man, or Loki to "counter" Sentry is a terrible idea because having any of these characters on your team is simply begging for instant retaliation in PVP. Offensively, they may work, but defensively, the human player with Sentry will load up boosts, skip you defenses, and squash you like a bug. Any advantage you'd get in beating a Sentry team will be nullified by your drop of -50 points after one fight.

2) The team of (featured character) + Sentry + Hood is 99% the only team you see in PVP once you pass 900. You don't even need to look at the featured character and determine what kind of synergy the rest of your team will need. You don't need to look at the enemy team and say "what characters do I have will counter this?" because the Sentry + Hood combo will do all of that - it is just that fast and destructive. It promotes "boost-and-win" gameplay, speed over strategy, and it creates a toxic atmosphere in the game where nobody uses anything else, nobody has to think except "match green and yellow", and the game is devoid of any actual "puzzling". It's Patchneto and Thorverine all over again, and I feel very strongly for these reasons that Sentry needs a nerf.

BillyBobJoe

So it seems the problem is the speed winning.

So why not rectify the problems by eliminating boosts?

Besides, boosts are limited, just like Deadpool Points. Unless you pay for them.

When you play Sentry+Hood or Sentry+Daken without the boosts you face a different situation. Many people use Hulk as a defensive player. Daken's strike tiles aren't enough to down Hulk with one WR. Even with Sacrifice it may not be enough to down him and you have to worry about Anger. Also without boosts, the other team has enough to time to disrupt WR, Thunderous Clap, Judgement, AntiGrav TU, Aggressive Recon TU, any stun move, etc. So you end up getting only 4-8 WR tiles actually going off not doing instant kills.

My point is, without boosts, it's very rare that WR nukes the board.

Great discussion here guys.

BillyBobJoe

flnn1 wrote:

The short answer: Yes, you are.

Haha. Yes. Great answer.

It's not that I think Sentry isn't powerful, but my contention is that he's balanced. WR has a low AP cost due to the negative effects of the ability; team damage. Same with Supernova. 11 AP is cheaper, and maybe more powerful, than 14 AP Call the Storm. But the negative effects, team damage, reduce the cost of it.

I think most people are upset due the the boosting bonus at the start of the match making it a quick win.

Unknown

I think you're looking at his powers in isolation and not factoring in that the problem isn't World Rupture, and it isn't Sacrifice, it's the two together. No one else can do anything remotely close to those two together. Supernova doesn't enter into the picture on offense; a 0/5/5 Sentry would still be incredibly dangerous on offense.

BillyBobJoe

Ben Grimm wrote:

I think you're looking at his powers in isolation and not factoring in that the problem isn't World Rupture, and it isn't Sacrifice, it's the two together. No one else can do anything remotely close to those two together. Supernova doesn't enter into the picture on offense; a 0/5/5 Sentry would still be incredibly dangerous on offense.

But that's the point. The two are SUPPOSED to work together. Like Mjolnirs Might->Lightning Strike->Call The Storm, or Deceptive Tactics->Sniper Rifle, or Striking Distance/Power Surge->Smite, or Energy Absorption->Photonic Blast, or Telepathic Strike->Summon Demons, or Thunderclap->Godlike Power, etc.

I understand it's powerful. But that's why WR is countdown tiles. You're not going to get all 16 to go off. you may get 8-12 depending on color arrangement and matching.

Unknown

BillyBobJoe wrote:

I think most people are upset due the the boosting bonus at the start of the match making it a quick win.

No, we're not upset. Our problem with Sentry is that he's monopolizing the metagame. Heck, you could even say he IS the metagame. Get over 800 points in PvP and all you see is Sentry. Think about the previous big nerfs: cMags, Spider-man, Rags. The only one that comes close to the speed, power and ubiquitous presence of Sentry is Rags pre-nerf. Each and every one of them has been nerfed to the ground (more or less, cMags is still a viable char). It's not a matter if Sentry deserves to be nerfed, it's just a matter of WHEN it's going to happen. (my 2 cents is the sooner, the better)

I understand it's powerful. But that's why WR is countdown tiles. You're not going to get all 16 to go off. you may get 8-12 depending on color arrangement and matching.

If those 8-12 tiles are still going to win you a game on turn 3, you could agree with me that you have an OP character in your hands, right?

BillyBobJoe

Aren't the people who are shield hopping HELPING other players? By pushing their top score up, it helps other players climb the progression ladder earning those 3* and 4* covers.

I'm just saying Sentry on defense isn't great, especially with a squishy Hood or a Daken whose CR eliminates strike tiles.

Unknown

But it makes the game incredibly boring. PVP is pretty boring even under ideal circumstances; having every team the same makes it borderline unplayable.

And shield-hopping helps in a sense, but it also makes the game pay-to-win. Nobody is regularly scoring 2000 point per PVP and not putting money into the game, because it's impossible. It helps other shield-hoppers, and makes it basically impossible to place top 5 for everyone else.

And Sentry on defense is still strong, even (and especially) with Hood and Daken. Daken can eliminate strike tiles, but he places them faster. And the AI will sometimes get a perfect World Rupture plus sacrifice off. And Supernova may wipe out his own team, but it'll definitely wipe out your team. And Hood makes him harder to counter.

BillyBobJoe

Kappei wrote:

If those 8-12 tiles are still going to win you a game on turn 3, you could agree with me that you have an OP character in your hands, right?

But you aren't going to fire, and set off, WR and Sacrifice by turn 3 without boosts. 15AP (green + yellow specifically), without Agg Recon or Dorm's Aide, takes time to charge. Even adding Intimidation, 9 AP, We're looking 8 turns minimum to get the AP. Plus the one turn WR CD, makes it 9 turns minimum (or 10 without Intimidation).

Even if you get 8 tiles to fire:
15 AP, 1304 damage to Sentry (Sacrifice), (54*8) = 432 team damage vs. (148*8 + 674*8) = 6576 damage to other team.

I agree it's a powerful move. But 10 moves in is not a speedy win.

Bottom line, I think it's the boosts that are the problem.

BillyBobJoe

Ben Grimm wrote:

But it makes the game incredibly boring.

Let's talk about 4 day PVE Heroic events with no subs. Grinding those nodes = incredibly boring.

Unknown

That's not how it usually works, though. You're completely ignoring cascade damage, which is also boosted by the strike tiles, and Hood frequently can take a match or two away from what you need. Given a good board, match green twice, match yellow 2 twice, Dormammu's aid gets you another green, fire world rupture turn four, match yellow, fire sacrifice turn 5, turn 6 everyone's dead. And I've fired off the world rupture turn 3 unboosted. Yes, sometimes it takes 10 turns or so, but that's above average. The AI trying to deny green can actually help you here, by giving Hood something to take. That's not to mention the Daken-only path. Match green 3-4 times, make sure the highest hit points guy is in front, and his strike tiles are enough to take out the whole enemy team.

Unknown

BillyBobJoe wrote:

Ben Grimm wrote:

But it makes the game incredibly boring.

Let's talk about 4 day PVE Heroic events with no subs. Grinding those nodes = incredibly boring.

You're right. The worst PVE events are about as bad as a typical PVP.