Patch Notes - 11/27 - DISCUSSION

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Ranzera wrote:

@That crazy not applicable post IceX just wrote.

This game has no player economy.

There is to some point. Granted we don't sell so prices we set will not play into it but as the amount of effort/opportunity to earn HP goes up and there is more HP in the economy then the HP sinks are the only way to drain out the HP and keep it valuable. I'd prefer that things worth more were put out there to pull in our HP. They tried with the HP buffs for Venom but I doubt that many really used that. Bottom line is that we have an economy it is just mostly controlled by the devs with us voting with where we spend our HP. I'm guessing that a lot of people spent their HP on the 150HP pile after earning a ton in Venom so they decided it was under priced.

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The actual definition of player economy is players selling to players. If you are not operating on that definition, you are wrong before your hands ever touched the keyboard.

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I don't think you need to get abrasive over linguistic semantics.

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Toxicadam wrote:

I don't think you need to get abrasive over linguistic semantics.

Server economies and player economies differ enough to where that distinction is important. I'm a blunt person. I'm sorry that rustles your jimmies.

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I don't think its that ridiculous. Like most games out there....its ridiculous to be at the very top. The amount of time and effort and money needed to maintain that spot is for most people ludicrous. I buy HP once in a while and haven't regretted it (only regretted spec'ing my Cap. A badly). As long as these events keep happening, lightning rounds....red iso and such. that should inject a ton of extra covers, iso, and the random 50 hp into the market.

At least the player support, updates to the game UI and new characters have been great.

Does that mean we'll get the entire fantastic 4? But but....there are only 3 characters allowed. Does that mean I'll have to leave poor Thing on the sidelines?

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Ranzera wrote:

Toxicadam wrote:

I don't think you need to get abrasive over linguistic semantics.

Server economies and player economies differ enough to where that distinction is important. I'm a blunt person. I'm sorry that rustles your jimmies.

Ok, understand your point now. Was not clear to me in your initial response. Would be cool if we could sell the cards we don't need and then it would be a player economy (see, I can learn ).

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All this patch is doing is making heroic packs even more useless

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Saint Matthew wrote:

Does that mean we'll get the entire fantastic 4? But but....there are only 3 characters allowed. Does that mean I'll have to leave poor Thing on the sidelines?

What?

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Server economies and player economies differ enough to where that distinction is important. I'm a blunt person. I'm sorry that rustles your jimmies.

That's fine and you ARE right, but for the purposes of the conversation, you knew what he generally meant (from a guy typing on his phone in an airport).

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Anyways, without getting too cynical here, there are probably two subsets of data they look at. Those that spend (whales) and those who don't. I'm going to let you take a wild guess at which reactions to price increases get the most attention.

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DumDumDugn wrote:

All this patch is doing is making heroic packs even more useless

Don't think going from useless to more useless matters much

Spoit

greggray24 wrote:

IceIX wrote:

forgrim wrote:

i do have to wonder why it was raised to 300 hp. is it because with tokens, there's just an abundance of covers going out? there has to be some arbitrary reason, even if its to make more money (more hp as prizes, from random things?)

Currently waiting to board a large metal tube and hurtle through the sky. Until then, I'll field that one. Similar to cover slot pricing, we're testing price ceilings. We think we know what the game will bear without losing sales over it and go from there. For example with the Cover Slots, we monitored transactions post patch for a while. After the initial dip from users that were (rightfully) annoyed at the change, they went right back up to what they were before compared to our number of users. Retention of users didn't dip. No other alarm bells. To put it basically in the Middle School econ lesson I had way back in the mists of time, we were selling our pens at too low a price. Sure, people were fine with that price, but they were, as a whole, just as fine with the same product at a higher one.

I think the other thing you need to take into account with the cover slot change is that after the price increase you guys started making HP much more readily available. I held out for a while but then started winning lots of HP and needed the slots so spent it. When 200HP took a week to earn it was a lot of HP to spend on a slot so making it 350 was painful. when I found I could earn that 350HP faster than I used to be able to earn the 200HP then the value became more acceptable. I assume the same applies to the 150HP cover slot - with the HP more readily available it was under priced. I hate games of chance so I really don't partake in paying for covers no mater what the cost so 150 or 300 is the same to me. Heck - I even get angry when getting junk for free covers tokens that I pick up along the way .

The problem is, with the exception of the completely random HP drops in heroic mode, all those ISO methods are increasingly being moved to placement prizes, rather than progression. So the rich get richer, and the people who can't place in the top 25 regularly can barely scrounge for a slot per handful of new covers.

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Toxicadam wrote:

That's fine and you ARE right, but for the purposes of the conversation, you knew what he generally meant (from a guy typing on his phone in an airport).

===

Anyways, without getting too cynical here, there are probably two subsets of data they look at. Those that spend (whales) and those who don't. I'm going to let you take a wild guess at which reactions to price increases get the most attention.

I know that feel too well. My phone is pretty much the only way I post.

They could have limited the flow of spice rather than doing a 2 prong approach. Tokens in general are worthless to me because I can only see them as another unstoppable crash for 1 star or mjolnirs might for 2 star tokens. So I'm not even all that invested in this change. I still think it's stupid to attack a problem from both sides at once.

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Bainee wrote:

Blue Shoes wrote:

ihearthawthats wrote:

Waitaminute, Spidey guaranteed pack is actually more expensive than training directly? lol

Nice if you don't have the first cover yet. I'm considering it to get the blue Spidey cover that has evaded me thus far.

Go for it, you will not regret it.

I did. I got it. I don't regret it.

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I still think it's stupid to attack a problem from both sides at once

Personally, I feel like the best way to encourage HP spending is to do special events. Make the person feel like they are getting a deal, not getting robbed.

Instead of doubling the price, double the chances of getting a three star hero (2 x 0 is still zero!). Put a timer on the event and watch people go crazy.

The player is going to feel much better about that bargain than just pulling the rug from under him and doubling the cost. Do that type of thing too many times and the player will leave in disgust.

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Spoit wrote:

The problem is, with the exception of the completely random HP drops in heroic mode, all those ISO methods are increasingly being moved to placement prizes, rather than progression. So the rich get richer, and the people who can't place in the top 25 regularly can barely scrounge for a slot per handful of new covers.

Really good point. I created a 2nd account that I don't play as much anymore. Part of the reason is that there is now more than enough to do with one account and I was getting a bit skitzo trying to win two tournaments at once. The rest of the reason is that I feel like it is too hard to play them now. There is a lot of stuff that they can't do and they do fall farther and farther behind my main account because of it. The economy related point is that this account can't afford cover slots so I am deleting covers (bye bye bag-man) when new ones come in. Perhaps the push is to spend money but not going to do that on a 2nd account. Have not even spent on the primary account though I do want to if there is something offered that i think is a good value.

Perhaps they should try an event that has max levels for the heroes. Make it similar in value (a bit less perhaps) to the open event but limit it to heroes under level 40 (or percentage of max).

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One argument made was that people bought special promo packs for 300 so this means people will buy regular packs for 300. I disagree, they're special packs because they're better. And promoting them should increase sales even if they weren't any better.

Bainee

Blue Shoes wrote:

Bainee wrote:

Blue Shoes wrote:

ihearthawthats wrote:

Waitaminute, Spidey guaranteed pack is actually more expensive than training directly? lol

Nice if you don't have the first cover yet. I'm considering it to get the blue Spidey cover that has evaded me thus far.

Go for it, you will not regret it.

I did. I got it. I don't regret it.

Grats!!

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Toxicadam wrote:

I still think it's stupid to attack a problem from both sides at once

Personally, I feel like the best way to encourage HP spending is to do special events. Make the person feel like they are getting a deal, not getting robbed.

Instead of doubling the price, double the chances of getting a three star hero (2 x 0 is still zero!). Put a timer on the event and watch people go crazy.

The player is going to feel much better about that bargain than just pulling the rug from under him and doubling the cost. Do that type of thing too many times and the player will leave in disgust.

I generally agree with all of this.

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Ranzera wrote:

Saint Matthew wrote:

Does that mean we'll get the entire fantastic 4? But but....there are only 3 characters allowed. Does that mean I'll have to leave poor Thing on the sidelines?

What?

Like...you can only have 3 heroes during a battle right? But there are 4 fantastic four team members. Susan Storm (Invisible woman), Mister Fantastic, Human Torch and The Thing.....but with the current line up of only having 4 heroes you can't have all four at once. just a small whine =p

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Saint Matthew wrote:

Ranzera wrote:

Saint Matthew wrote:

Does that mean we'll get the entire fantastic 4? But but....there are only 3 characters allowed. Does that mean I'll have to leave poor Thing on the sidelines?

What?

Like...you can only have 3 heroes during a battle right? But there are 4 fantastic four team members. Susan Storm (Invisible woman), Mister Fantastic, Human Torch and The Thing.....but with the current line up of only having 4 heroes you can't have all four at once. just a small whine =p

Oh, I gotcha. I guess that is a minor disappointment. It can't be helped now though.