punisher is too strong when comparing with other 3*

Unknown

He's like the perfect gateway lvl 3 character. Powerful colors (red/green/black). can shake up the board, create strike and attack tiles, has a countdown, has an insta-kill....he's a great overall powerful character. but not overpowered. Overpowered is 2 AP green ragnarok for 500 damage and creates 5 green tiles at random. That's overpowered.

Unknown

If Punisher is powerful then who else is powerful? Thor? No that's definitely overpowered. Psylocke? She's definitely not in the same tier as Punisher, so who else is exactly 'powerful'?

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

If Punisher is powerful then who else is powerful? Thor? No that's definitely overpowered. Psylocke? She's definitely not in the same tier as Punisher, so who else is exactly 'powerful'?

If i'm only ruling out Thor (and presumably C.Mags and Sentry) then L.Daken, Patch, HT, L.Cap (although a bit weaker on defence but better in PvE unless you need retribution for insane scaling. L.Cap's red does 40% of a lot of things' health bars) are at a similar kind of level. Would also say Hood but harder to compare a pure damage dealer to a pretty pure support.

Unknown

bonfire01 wrote:

Phantron wrote:

If Punisher is powerful then who else is powerful? Thor? No that's definitely overpowered. Psylocke? She's definitely not in the same tier as Punisher, so who else is exactly 'powerful'?

If i'm only ruling out Thor (and presumably C.Mags and Sentry) then L.Daken, Patch, HT, L.Cap (although a bit weaker on defence but better in PvE unless you need retribution for insane scaling. L.Cap's red does 40% of a lot of things' health bars) are at a similar kind of level. Would also say Hood but harder to compare a pure damage dealer to a pretty pure support.

HT is not used with any regularity though it might be related to his limited availability. Captain America is hard to use in PvP because of lower costing red taking precedence over his best ability, so not counting the obviously broken and The Hood who cannot be easily compared at all, there's really only Patch and Daken that can be compared to Punisher. I'd say that's pretty powerful. It might not be game breaking ovepowered (that'd be Sentry/Mag/Thor) but he's certainly considerably above anyone you're considered as normal. I can live with The Punisher's power, but it's not exactly something I'm comfortable with in a balanced game.

I guess you can say he's uncomfortably powerful. Going up against Punisher feels a lot like Daken. I know how to beat him, but I find myself asking 'is this fair?' given all the thing he can do. It's still a tier below going against say, Sentry, who you don't need to ask the same question at all, as you know there's nothing fair about Sentry.

Unknown

So many different responses I want/could give but really I'll just give the TLDR: version.

Phantron you seem to want some magical world where so many different moving parts is balanced.

Honestly I really do think that you're like one of those players in Magic the Gathering who would never be happy untill everything stronger then Squire was banned and then you would have to banned that too because its then too good

If that''s what you want go play Chess, This is Puzzle Quest get used to it.

Unknown

I only really see Punisher as an inconvenience at most. AI can't use his red sensibly except by mere chancea and won't save molotov for after his green, meaning it does bugger all damage. If you deny green he is essentially a bit of chip damage with not a lot of real cascade potential.

HT's lack of use in PvP is probably scarcity of covers I agree but I disagree that L.Cap can't be compared to Punisher purely because of PvP defence. He is pretty similar on offence in PvP especially against single/limited special tile based heroes (Sentry scarifice comes to mind) and easily better than punisher in PvE because he can deal with overscaled goons better.

If you're going to talk about PvP defence then BP and Hulk are better than punisher AND C.Mags is weak as hell. Overall punisher is maybe a touch above average but with the exception of people with pretty limited rosters I don't think many ppl are scared of attacking a team with punisher in it.

Unknown

MTGOFerret wrote:

So many different responses I want/could give but really I'll just give the TLDR: version.

Phantron you seem to want some magical world where so many different moving parts is balanced.

Honestly I really do think that you're like one of those players in Magic the Gathering who would never be happy untill everything stronger then Squire was banned and then you would have to banned that too because its then too good

If that''s what you want go play Chess, This is Puzzle Quest get used to it.

Have to agree here, my MTG knowledge is very dated but I guess your saying phantron cried at having to discard when you cast your ravenous rats saying that card is broken or your prodigal sorcerer is unfair because he can nullify much bigger creatures!!
@phantron - I thought you would have a team that could easily beat any team with pun although not knowing for sure I will just say oh dear!!

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

In some hypothetical balanced world you would say all of Punisher's abilities (especially Judgment) is a bit too good for what would be considered fair.

On the other hand Thor's ability are about twice as good as what could be considered fair.

Punisher is overpowered compared to someone like Psylocke, but not so much compared to Thor. While he's overpowered, if we get to a point where The Punisher is the strongest character in the game, then I can definitely live with the balance at that point, even if he's clearly the strongest character by then.

Level 141 Lazy Thor, doing half as much damage, would be dealing damage somewhere in the neighborhood as Level 85 Thor. What would be the point in that? How is that fair?

1* Level 50: 28,400
2* Level 85: 69,524 (about 2.5 times as much as 1* Level 50)
3* Level 141: 172,764 (about 2.5 times as much as 2* Level 85, about 6 times as much as 1* Level 50)

Certain characters are going to be overpowered when compared to other characters because of relative strengths and weaknesses. That isn't to say they are actually overpowered. It's good strategy to select a lineup with characters that are strong against characters in an opponents lineup.

Unknown

repronaz wrote:

MTGOFerret wrote:

So many different responses I want/could give but really I'll just give the TLDR: version.

Phantron you seem to want some magical world where so many different moving parts is balanced.

Honestly I really do think that you're like one of those players in Magic the Gathering who would never be happy untill everything stronger then Squire was banned and then you would have to banned that too because its then too good

If that''s what you want go play Chess, This is Puzzle Quest get used to it.

Have to agree here, my MTG knowledge is very dated but I guess your saying phantron cried at having to discard when you cast your ravenous rats saying that card is broken or your prodigal sorcerer is unfair because he can nullify much bigger creatures!!
@phantron - I thought you would have a team that could easily beat any team with pun although not knowing for sure I will just say oh dear!!

Anyhow It's just a common saying in the MTG community when people cry for bans all the time in the Legacy or Modern formats.
Squire is a REALLY old card came out in the expansion called "the dark"
Here's an image of it


-edit- @Bugpop I think too many people get hung up on the idea that 3*s should be on a similar competitive level as 2*s.
They might have been at one time but aren't anymore and frankly they shouldn't be.

Unknown

I stopped playing after mercadian masques so what is old to you is after my time!!

Unknown

repronaz wrote:

I stopped playing after mercadian masques so what is old to you is after my time!!

Sit down Kiddo and get ready for your mind to be blown!

Uh the Dark came out in 1994.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_( ... _Gathering)

Mercadian Masques came out in Oct of 1999
http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Mercadian_Masques

Unknown

MTGOFerret wrote:

repronaz wrote:

I stopped playing after mercadian masques so what is old to you is after my time!!

Sit down Kiddo and get ready for your mind to be blown!

Uh the Dark came out in 1994.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_( ... _Gathering)

Mercadian Masques came out in Oct of 1999
http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Mercadian_Masques

Okay you got me there, I started playing around then 4th edition and ice age but not properly for a few years. I both apologise and quiver at your dedication to a game that got too expensive for me to maintain (two boxes each release and tournaments every weekend). My brother plays mtgo but I always preferred playing with real people and physical cards to playing online and buying virtual boosters.
Apologies to all others for off topic discussion!!

Unknown

My Mother of Runes would like to have a word with you on newer cards being OP. She's pretty sure she can lay down the whoopass still in her old age

Unknown

@repronaz: lol no worries man i was just giving ya guff mostly cuz i could, no love lost

@Saint Matthew: Too true she still sees play in legacy! (however with that said creatures are starting to become insanely scary look at snapcaster mage and Stone Forge Mystic for example)

@repronaz: Imma Django offtopic is what we do best

Unknown

i think punisher is just right, skills arent so cheap its op and abuse-able and arent so high dmging they wipe the entire team out.

Der_Lex

Ah, the Dark. The first M:tG expansion I ever bought packs of, since I started playing around revised edition. I still love the art on The Fallen.

Anyway, as for Punisher... count me in the 'he's powerful, but not overpowered' camp. His abilities are all good, but almost never your primary choice for that particular color. That and his black and green are very much an either/or situation. Black is actually pretty solid at 5 with the reduced countdown, but in that case you don't want to go spamming his green because you'll end up blowing up too many of your attack and countdown tiles. His green is arguably his most powerful ability, but is hard to spam even on its own because you have a good chance of blowing up your own strike tiles (and for board clearance you're better off with Hulk). His red is a good PvE tool when scaling goes bananas, but isn't too great in PvP.

Now it's true that he's a great fit for most teams, and that's where his main frequency of use lies. Need a strike tile generator but don't want to run the double-edged sword that is Patch? Pun's a solid choice. Need good team damage for black but think BP's ability is too costly and too risky with its drawback? Again, Pun's your guy. But at this point, I'm not entirely sure he's even the best R/G/Bla character out there. Hulk has become a credible threat now that Spidey is out of the picture, sporting tons of HP, good board disruption, and that nasty black passive that becomes even more dangerous with LDaken around. And I think that if D3 ever remembers to hand out some covers for him again, Human Torch will see a lot more play as well, since his red and black hit pretty hard, and you can hide him quite efficiently behind other characters like hulk, ldaken and patch, which reduces his weakness of being a glass cannon while on offense (I've really enjoyed using him in the current PvE, even though I only have his covers at 3/5/2). And of course we have lStorm coming up, who looks like she'll be quite a beast as well.

To me, Pun is pretty much the power level 3 stars should be at. And I think it's more a sign of bad design in a lot of other characters that leads to their lack of use than a sign that he's overpowered because he's used more often.

mohio

As someone (or many someone's even) said, punisher to me is not overpowered because his abilities aren't even that great if used before getting off judgment. He's a little annoying in the fact that you'll almost always take some damage since his abilities are all pretty cheap, but you won't wipe to Molotov or retribution with no strike tiles out. Just don't take him on with no green user or you'll be denying him green for no benefit or give him enough for judgment then you could be in trouble.

Edit: haven't seen ferret talk/write about magic in quite some time. As someone who used to read him weekly it takes me back

Unknown

mohio wrote:

As someone (or many someone's even) said, punisher to me is not overpowered because his abilities aren't even that great if used before getting off judgment. He's a little annoying in the fact that you'll almost always take some damage since his abilities are all pretty cheap, but you won't wipe to Molotov or retribution with no strike tiles out. Just don't take him on with no green user or you'll be denying him green for no benefit or give him enough for judgment then you could be in trouble.

Edit: haven't seen ferret talk/write about magic in quite some time. As someone who used to read him weekly it takes me back

Wrong Ferret. But I did used to be on the HeavyMeta podcast featured in the Canadian website Manadeprived.com

mohio

MTGOFerret wrote:

mohio wrote:

As someone (or many someone's even) said, punisher to me is not overpowered because his abilities aren't even that great if used before getting off judgment. He's a little annoying in the fact that you'll almost always take some damage since his abilities are all pretty cheap, but you won't wipe to Molotov or retribution with no strike tiles out. Just don't take him on with no green user or you'll be denying him green for no benefit or give him enough for judgment then you could be in trouble.

Edit: haven't seen ferret talk/write about magic in quite some time. As someone who used to read him weekly it takes me back

Wrong Ferret. But I did used to be on the HeavyMeta podcast featured in the Canadian website Manadeprived.com

Ha, never knew there were multiple ferrets in the mtg community. Only checked out mana deprived a few times so not sure I'd have caught you there. Anyway sorry for the confusion!

Unknown

smh at the OP.