Disabled PVP Supports

revskip

@The_Boi_of_Steel said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@The_Boi_of_Steel said:

@Codex said:

@The_Boi_of_Steel said:

@S0kun said:
The following supports have been disabled in all PVP events and will be reintroduced in the future once we've had a chance to rebalance them.

1. Leapfrog (Amphibious Transport)
2. FantastiCar (Four Seater)
3. Eros's Arrow (Lovestruck)
4. Thanos-Copter (Villainous Vehicle)

Additionally, PVP Lightning Rounds should have ALL SUPPORTS disabled. The recent enabling of supports in Unity was unintended and we do not have future plans to enable them in Lighting Rounds in the future.

Quick update:
For the events that are already made like Elsa's Ray Gun Madness, the supports are still in there, but all PVP events in the near future should have them disabled. I believe Quicksilver & Spider Rex will have them enabled since I see their event info in my tracker.

This is why players are leaving this game. We invest not only A LOT of time, but money as well. Leapfrog was a big help for me against those who got their brand new characters leveled at 550. Now you guys are taking that away. You’re making it too easy for me to quit altogether. Thanks a lot.

I could be wrong here, but that 550 train has all but ended with the cover exchange system. I haven't seen new many new 550 past Sam...it is a short sample size.

My issue with their decision is solely on them trying to sell/make counters to the nuisance supports that have now become less useful.

I don’t know if it ended or not, but those 550 characters still exist and having supports like leapfrog still work in our favor against them, which is what I’m talking about and hoping the developers will understand from what I said in my comment.

We all have different issues, I suppose.

If you are attacking 550's with 450's or even 480's, you SHOULD get beat. You SHOULD need a great deal of luck to beat a team 100 levels stronger than you. Why should players grind and/or spend to get 550's if 450's are just as effective and can reliably beat their 550's?

From my point of view, weaker teams losing to much stronger teams is what should happen most of the time.

Some of us don’t exactly have a choice, BUT to fight opponents that are 100 levels higher. Without support, I'm still able to beat them at times, but the supports are great at evening the odds.

Should this game niw only be for the enjoyment of people who get their characters to 550? How is this fair to newer players of the game who are just getting into the game?

The developers and owners of this game need to fix this problem they created. They can’t just make money with longtime players who have monopolized the game to their advantage. Otherwise, they’ll lose newer players to help sustain a current monetary flow.

If you are spending you'll soon be in the 550 club. If not you can still get wins, still plenty of infinite teams available that can punch up. And eventually if you keep grinding even as a free to play player you can eventually get to the 550 club as well.

The people at the top should have an advantage over the people still climbing the mountain. Spending time and/or money should give you an advantage. Staying at the tippity top should require spending. That spending is good, keeps the lights on. With BCS already having made some bad financial decisions in recent memory and pissing off some of the bigger spenders that edge will close as new folks spend.

I liked Leapfrog and don't think it was nearly as disruptive as others do, it stretched out matches and you had to be aware of how to play against it instead of just mindlessly matching. Same for Eros, good on defense but didn't really bring anything else to the table.

The two offensive supports I think were a little more problematic since they helped exacerbate some of the meta teams already potent acceleration. Sam/Juggs, mThor/Polaris, Shang/America don't need much help to get going fast.

DAZ0273

@The_Boi_of_Steel said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@The_Boi_of_Steel said:

@Codex said:

@The_Boi_of_Steel said:

@S0kun said:
The following supports have been disabled in all PVP events and will be reintroduced in the future once we've had a chance to rebalance them.

1. Leapfrog (Amphibious Transport)
2. FantastiCar (Four Seater)
3. Eros's Arrow (Lovestruck)
4. Thanos-Copter (Villainous Vehicle)

Additionally, PVP Lightning Rounds should have ALL SUPPORTS disabled. The recent enabling of supports in Unity was unintended and we do not have future plans to enable them in Lighting Rounds in the future.

Quick update:
For the events that are already made like Elsa's Ray Gun Madness, the supports are still in there, but all PVP events in the near future should have them disabled. I believe Quicksilver & Spider Rex will have them enabled since I see their event info in my tracker.

This is why players are leaving this game. We invest not only A LOT of time, but money as well. Leapfrog was a big help for me against those who got their brand new characters leveled at 550. Now you guys are taking that away. You’re making it too easy for me to quit altogether. Thanks a lot.

I could be wrong here, but that 550 train has all but ended with the cover exchange system. I haven't seen new many new 550 past Sam...it is a short sample size.

My issue with their decision is solely on them trying to sell/make counters to the nuisance supports that have now become less useful.

I don’t know if it ended or not, but those 550 characters still exist and having supports like leapfrog still work in our favor against them, which is what I’m talking about and hoping the developers will understand from what I said in my comment.

We all have different issues, I suppose.

If you are attacking 550's with 450's or even 480's, you SHOULD get beat. You SHOULD need a great deal of luck to beat a team 100 levels stronger than you. Why should players grind and/or spend to get 550's if 450's are just as effective and can reliably beat their 550's?

From my point of view, weaker teams losing to much stronger teams is what should happen most of the time.

Some of us don’t exactly have a choice, BUT to fight opponents that are 100 levels higher. Without support, I'm still able to beat them at times, but the supports are great at evening the odds.

Should this game niw only be for the enjoyment of people who get their characters to 550? How is this fair to newer players of the game who are just getting into the game?

The developers and owners of this game need to fix this problem they created. They can’t just make money with longtime players who have monopolized the game to their advantage. Otherwise, they’ll lose newer players to help sustain a current monetary flow.

Are we talking about true 550's or boosted characters?

MegaBee

@entrailbucket said:
PvP is a revelation without Leapfrog. I can't believe how much it was propping up weak unboosted 550s.

The phrase "weak unboosted 550s" is just blowing my mind. That is a whole different level of MPQ.

DAZ0273

@MegaBee said:

@entrailbucket said:
PvP is a revelation without Leapfrog. I can't believe how much it was propping up weak unboosted 550s.

The phrase "weak unboosted 550s" is just blowing my mind. That is a whole different level of MPQ.

To be fair I can't see Samurai Daken doing anything at Lvl 672 but yeah, how the other half live, etc.

BriMan2222

@MegaBee said:

@entrailbucket said:
PvP is a revelation without Leapfrog. I can't believe how much it was propping up weak unboosted 550s.

The phrase "weak unboosted 550s" is just blowing my mind. That is a whole different level of MPQ.

This week I have a couple of lvl 672's and 3 that are around 620, but none of them are terribly great characters. So I can't wait for this boost week to end, complaining about my weak over lvl 600 characters.

DAZ0273

Ah, we don't have next weeks/tomorrow Buff list yet I see. It can't be worse than this week...

(Next weeks buff list - Abigail Brand, Rescue, Knull and Miles Morales all offering to hold my beer)

LavaManLee

I'm assuming you both don't have Viktor at 550. He is boosted this week and makes everything fairly laughably easy paired with Iron May. I actually am not looking forward to a new boost list. :-)

bluewolf

Victor is one of those characters who’s reasonable boosted as a one-man band but at the time seemed pretty bad. I kind of left him off but also wasn’t about to 550 him with my level of resources.

One thing I think a lot of us discount is how a character will be as the best of a bad boost week. I suppose if you assess a character as better than half the other 5s they’re worth pushing higher.

BriMan2222

@The_Boi_of_Steel said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@The_Boi_of_Steel said:

@Codex said:

@The_Boi_of_Steel said:

@S0kun said:
The following supports have been disabled in all PVP events and will be reintroduced in the future once we've had a chance to rebalance them.

1. Leapfrog (Amphibious Transport)
2. FantastiCar (Four Seater)
3. Eros's Arrow (Lovestruck)
4. Thanos-Copter (Villainous Vehicle)

Additionally, PVP Lightning Rounds should have ALL SUPPORTS disabled. The recent enabling of supports in Unity was unintended and we do not have future plans to enable them in Lighting Rounds in the future.

Quick update:
For the events that are already made like Elsa's Ray Gun Madness, the supports are still in there, but all PVP events in the near future should have them disabled. I believe Quicksilver & Spider Rex will have them enabled since I see their event info in my tracker.

This is why players are leaving this game. We invest not only A LOT of time, but money as well. Leapfrog was a big help for me against those who got their brand new characters leveled at 550. Now you guys are taking that away. You’re making it too easy for me to quit altogether. Thanks a lot.

I could be wrong here, but that 550 train has all but ended with the cover exchange system. I haven't seen new many new 550 past Sam...it is a short sample size.

My issue with their decision is solely on them trying to sell/make counters to the nuisance supports that have now become less useful.

I don’t know if it ended or not, but those 550 characters still exist and having supports like leapfrog still work in our favor against them, which is what I’m talking about and hoping the developers will understand from what I said in my comment.

We all have different issues, I suppose.

If you are attacking 550's with 450's or even 480's, you SHOULD get beat. You SHOULD need a great deal of luck to beat a team 100 levels stronger than you. Why should players grind and/or spend to get 550's if 450's are just as effective and can reliably beat their 550's?

From my point of view, weaker teams losing to much stronger teams is what should happen most of the time.

Some of us don’t exactly have a choice, BUT to fight opponents that are 100 levels higher. Without support, I'm still able to beat them at times, but the supports are great at evening the odds.

Should this game niw only be for the enjoyment of people who get their characters to 550? How is this fair to newer players of the game who are just getting into the game?

The developers and owners of this game need to fix this problem they created. They can’t just make money with longtime players who have monopolized the game to their advantage. Otherwise, they’ll lose newer players to help sustain a current monetary flow.

I remember being a 4 star player and breaking MMR and hitting a wall of 5 stars in pvp when I got to around 800 to 900 points. Wins based rewards didn’t exist at the time, so if I wanted the top rewards I had to try and fight 5 star teams.

There also weren’t really any cheese teams back then to consistently beat much stronger teams, so I lost the vast majority of the time. That left me one option if I wanted to climb higher – build a stronger roster. I had to collect and build up my own 5 stars to compete.

You have that same option, if you want to compete with 550’s you can build 550’s. You also have more options now than I ever did. You can lose a few matches and find easier teams and get to your goal with wins based rewards.

You can also use the cheese teams that do exist now. Polaris/mthor, Bill/polaris, Kang/darveil, namor/ascended mbaku, ascended hammer jugg/sam and multiple man/ascended Coulson can all beat teams much, much stronger than them and I’m sure there are more I’m either not thinking of or am not aware of. You have options other than use broken support that makes my team almost unkillable if the enemy team doesn’t have an aoe.

DAZ0273

@LavaManLee said:
I'm assuming you both don't have Viktor at 550. He is boosted this week and makes everything fairly laughably easy paired with Iron May. I actually am not looking forward to a new boost list. :-)

I do not. I did use him a few times but my Aunt May isn't ascended either.

BriMan2222

@LavaManLee said:
I'm assuming you both don't have Viktor at 550. He is boosted this week and makes everything fairly laughably easy paired with Iron May. I actually am not looking forward to a new boost list. :-)

Nope, I also don't have ascended 3a5 magic who is insane boosted and paired with 3 namor. With krakoa on namor and purple ap supports, you basically have to stun them on turn 1 or you're probably getting your entire team wiped out on their first turn.

entrailbucket

@MegaBee said:

@entrailbucket said:
PvP is a revelation without Leapfrog. I can't believe how much it was propping up weak unboosted 550s.

The phrase "weak unboosted 550s" is just blowing my mind. That is a whole different level of MPQ.

Yeah, I mean, Polaris and Sam have like 140k HP at 550. My boosted Hulk had like 370k. He's got basically double the match damage they do, and his green hits for 40k then blows up the board. Magik was doing 40k black matches. The 550 characters ARE objectively weak compared to 650+ boosted guys!

The problem before was that Leapfrog made it very difficult to punch down. When your match damage sets it off, and you're required to make a match every turn, it's nearly impossible to "play around," short of using a fully AoE team. Single target powers just sent people away until you burned off 5 charges.

The 550 teams can still kill me, given enough time, but now they don't have enough time. I can use AP supports to put a ton of pressure on them immediately, and without Leapfrog they can't hide anymore. Without the cascade supports they can't get up and running fast enough to beat me turn0, so they have to just eat whatever gets thrown at them turn1. That will usually end up being game over.

LennoxHC

@LavaManLee said:
I'm assuming you both don't have Viktor at 550. He is boosted this week and makes everything fairly laughably easy paired with Iron May. I actually am not looking forward to a new boost list. :-)

I always forget Mancha until his boost weeks. Paired with a Tinkerer support at 5*, that's an automatic skip from me. With the support, it's an 80% chance that he will start with the 6 AP needed to fire his black AOE and auto-kill the teams I'm using to try punching up.

dianetics

@entrailbucket said:
The problem before was that Leapfrog made it very difficult to punch down. When your match damage sets it off, and you're required to make a match every turn, it's nearly impossible to "play around," short of using a fully AoE team. Single target powers just sent people away until you burned off 5 charges.

Leap was like a pick 3/4. If you had it at r5 it was even worse, and it was obvious from the start.

There were times where I lost matches only because of Leap.
If you built a team to counter what you are facing, but then the opponent had Leap and because there was no opposing TU to counteract what Leap did you were boned.

Getting team ups to a respectable level takes both luck and time.
You have to pull the TU(luck) and then level it(time).
Unlike a 5 where you can just target them and their feeders, it could take months or longer if you have a bad pull rate.

Also, TU's rotate in their vaults so you might have to wait months just for the chance to pull them. It's plain dumb, and it is wildly unfair to the community at large.

Borstock

@bluewolf said:
Victor is one of those characters who’s reasonable boosted as a one-man band but at the time seemed pretty bad. I kind of left him off but also wasn’t about to 550 him with my level of resources.

One thing I think a lot of us discount is how a character will be as the best of a bad boost week. I suppose if you assess a character as better than half the other 5s they’re worth pushing higher.

If all of my supports go off, my Mancha/May can beat 550 Juggs/Sam without giving the AI a turn. That's nice on a good boost week.

The_Boi_of_Steel

If you are spending you'll soon be in the 550 club. If not you can still get wins, still plenty of infinite teams available that can punch up. And eventually if you keep grinding even as a free to play player you can eventually get to the 550 club as well.

The people at the top should have an advantage over the people still climbing the mountain. Spending time and/or money should give you an advantage. Staying at the tippity top should require spending. That spending is good, keeps the lights on. With BCS already having made some bad financial decisions in recent memory and pissing off some of the bigger spenders that edge will close as new folks spend.

I liked Leapfrog and don't think it was nearly as disruptive as others do, it stretched out matches and you had to be aware of how to play against it instead of just mindlessly matching. Same for Eros, good on defense but didn't really bring anything else to the table.

The two offensive supports I think were a little more problematic since they helped exacerbate some of the meta teams already potent acceleration. Sam/Juggs, mThor/Polaris, Shang/America don't need much help to get going fast.

I don’t disagree with anything you said. I have a number of 550s and a special trinity team that I use A LOT.

It took me time to get use to using supports and I'm getting use to them now again and do kick ****, but also as someone who worked in businesses with customers, this company isn’t doing that great a job. It’s turning or turned into a 550 only club at the moment.

I also know people who have been turned off by it because of their practices. I’m not gonna go into details because it would take too long to write, but I do want to see this game succeed. However, they’re practices are making this game too intimidating for new customers.

We’ll just have to give them the benefit of the doubt and wait and see.

Phumade

@KGB said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@The_Boi_of_Steel said:

@Codex said:

@The_Boi_of_Steel said:

@S0kun said:
The following supports have been disabled in all PVP events and will be reintroduced in the future once we've had a chance to rebalance them.

1. Leapfrog (Amphibious Transport)
2. FantastiCar (Four Seater)
3. Eros's Arrow (Lovestruck)
4. Thanos-Copter (Villainous Vehicle)

Additionally, PVP Lightning Rounds should have ALL SUPPORTS disabled. The recent enabling of supports in Unity was unintended and we do not have future plans to enable them in Lighting Rounds in the future.

Quick update:
For the events that are already made like Elsa's Ray Gun Madness, the supports are still in there, but all PVP events in the near future should have them disabled. I believe Quicksilver & Spider Rex will have them enabled since I see their event info in my tracker.

This is why players are leaving this game. We invest not only A LOT of time, but money as well. Leapfrog was a big help for me against those who got their brand new characters leveled at 550. Now you guys are taking that away. You’re making it too easy for me to quit altogether. Thanks a lot.

I could be wrong here, but that 550 train has all but ended with the cover exchange system. I haven't seen new many new 550 past Sam...it is a short sample size.

My issue with their decision is solely on them trying to sell/make counters to the nuisance supports that have now become less useful.

I don’t know if it ended or not, but those 550 characters still exist and having supports like leapfrog still work in our favor against them, which is what I’m talking about and hoping the developers will understand from what I said in my comment.

We all have different issues, I suppose.

If you are attacking 550's with 450's or even 480's, you SHOULD get beat. You SHOULD need a great deal of luck to beat a team 100 levels stronger than you. Why should players grind and/or spend to get 550's if 450's are just as effective and can reliably beat their 550's?

From my point of view, weaker teams losing to much stronger teams is what should happen most of the time.

That should only be true when played by equally competent players. The AI incompetence is worth probably a 100 levels of difference or so.

In other words they'd have to dramatically overhaul MMR in what it showed for teams so that you only got teams within a few levels of yours.

KGB

YES!!!! MMR must be addressed!!!!

Phumade

@DAZ0273 said:
Out of the 4 it does seem that Polaris got the most generous “budget” when created but Jane is mighty close behind. What did Abigail Brand budget get spent on?!?!

Stole it from her daddy Magneto.

Its worth nothing Both of Magneto's daughters are super OP. Wanda and Polaris are near meta support chars. When will we get a good 5* QS and Magneto rework????

BriMan2222

@Phumade said:

@DAZ0273 said:
Out of the 4 it does seem that Polaris got the most generous “budget” when created but Jane is mighty close behind. What did Abigail Brand budget get spent on?!?!

Stole it from her daddy Magneto.

Its worth nothing Both of Magneto's daughters are super OP. Wanda and Polaris are near meta support chars. When will we get a good 5* QS and Magneto rework????

Wanda and Quicksilver aren't mutants or children of magneto anymore. They were retconned several years ago. That's why neither of them have the mutant affiliation in game.

5 star magneto already was reworked, he used to be so much worse. He's actually pretty fun now when boosted or in niche teams.

entrailbucket

@The_Boi_of_Steel said:
If you are spending you'll soon be in the 550 club. If not you can still get wins, still plenty of infinite teams available that can punch up. And eventually if you keep grinding even as a free to play player you can eventually get to the 550 club as well.

The people at the top should have an advantage over the people still climbing the mountain. Spending time and/or money should give you an advantage. Staying at the tippity top should require spending. That spending is good, keeps the lights on. With BCS already having made some bad financial decisions in recent memory and pissing off some of the bigger spenders that edge will close as new folks spend.

I liked Leapfrog and don't think it was nearly as disruptive as others do, it stretched out matches and you had to be aware of how to play against it instead of just mindlessly matching. Same for Eros, good on defense but didn't really bring anything else to the table.

The two offensive supports I think were a little more problematic since they helped exacerbate some of the meta teams already potent acceleration. Sam/Juggs, mThor/Polaris, Shang/America don't need much help to get going fast.

I don’t disagree with anything you said. I have a number of 550s and a special trinity team that I use A LOT.

It took me time to get use to using supports and I'm getting use to them now again and do kick ****, but also as someone who worked in businesses with customers, this company isn’t doing that great a job. It’s turning or turned into a 550 only club at the moment.

I also know people who have been turned off by it because of their practices. I’m not gonna go into details because it would take too long to write, but I do want to see this game succeed. However, they’re practices are making this game too intimidating for new customers.

We’ll just have to give them the benefit of the doubt and wait and see.

Why would new players turn up and immediately expect to be competitive with endgame players who've either spent a ton of money, played forever, or both? Who would bother building a roster over years if some noob could turn up and win stuff because it's "fair?"

Previously you complained that matchmaking was giving you fights that were too hard, forcing you to punch up. If you have "a number of 550s," then matchmaking is working exactly as it should. You're in the top percentage of a percentage of all players -- the game is matching you with your peers. 550 vs 550 is not ever punching up.