PVP Meta Counter

WhiteBomber

Many thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts and experiences thus far! I will continue to add to the list as we learn / reveal more (including any other painful meta teams that may be missing).

entrailbucket

@WhiteBomber seems like you know what you want for this thread, and it's very specific. I don't think I can help too much with it though, so good luck!

MegaBee

@entrailbucket said:
Nobody's using it right now but there's an infinite/beat-anything combo with Hobgoblin. Hobgoblin/Coulson/(Hawkeye or Kang) can win any fight, against any health pool. You just cast anything, then hammer Hobgoblin blue over and over until everybody is dead.

Thank you for reminding me of this banger of a team.

DeNappa

@WhiteBomber said:
I added that team since I know it's an option, I just never run it because Wong can heal the team full before ending the fight and I think his 60% reduction is a little more forgiving plus massive protect tiles. Who do you run as a third with Elektra?

Yeah I have used Wong for that purpose instead of Elektra but in the end I didn't like micromanagement of the (true) healing strat plus the tiles are RNG so I haven't run it for a while.

As for a 3rd, to be honest my experience is mostly with character pvps where it's pick-2. If you do get to pick a third, I guess it depends a bit on who you face. Some suggestions:

• A leapfrog counter. Random/Team damage (Mephisto?).
• A better stunner than Elektra to keep the enemy in check a bit. Might help against Leapfrog too. Drawback: stunning counteracts the AP feed setup (unless against 5OR i guess)
• More damage reduction (Scarlet Witch/Goose/Kingpin)?
• Someone who deals with special tiles more efficiently. Especially if facing HammerJuggs/SamWilson. Even though Elektra steals half his strike tiles, the damage can add up and cascades happen (especially with annoying supports) and if the enemy is high level you can still get wrecked easily.
• An offense booster. A good offense is the best defense? (3a4May/3aXNamor/Okoye/Apocalypse)

DAZ0273

@WhiteBomber said:
@entrailbucket
I didn't add MThor to that specific list because she isn't necessary for the minimal needs of winning. It's not that she isn't top tier (that's why she is on that list), she just isn't needed to beat, any team? She is one of my highest level characters but I never user her (unless with Riri for some fun). I could start to build in the tier list, but this thread was specifically tailored at winning PVP and as efficiently as possible (she is part of multiple teams on the list though).

I don't know what to say about the electro comment, she doesn't have the highest AOE defense when compared to someone like ascended Quake, but the yellow she gives you is also key to coming out of the fight healthy. As for Sam and Juggs; Electro with Juggs is the main team I use against them and by far my safest, I have never lost with it and rarely lose a noticeable amount of health, so perhaps something is going wrong there for you? I used her the entirety of Juggs god buff and she never died once, kill Sam first and it's over. For context, my Electro is maybe 455 and enemy GodJug were usually over 550.

I agree about Thanoscopter, I put that one to rank 5 pretty fast, but there are 2 critical differences with copter and car: 1) Car gives you team up, combined with Darkveil, that's it, you win and do so usually without losing much of any health (with ShangChi you come out full health). 2) Copter needs rank 5, and it will take newer players a loong time to get there. You could level up 3 other important Supports to 3 in the meantime.

Added Coulson because I do agree he is part of many teams that can win almost too quickly. I also added a blurb to each of them though so newer players know why.

Hobgoblin/Coulson/(Hawkeye or Kang): Will try this one out today, I remember seeing this one in his thread. Does it win right off the bat? I'm guessing it needs at least 5 starting AP?

@DeNappa
I added that team since I know it's an option, I just never run it because Wong can heal the team full before ending the fight and I think his 60% reduction is a little more forgiving plus massive protect tiles. Who do you run as a third with Elektra?

@LavaManLee @BriMan2222
Thank you for the recommendations, I added them to the list for that team and will try them out more when I come across them in the wild.

@DAZ0273
You definitely could lose to that team if someone was missing:

• Are your Coulson and MultiMan ascended?
• Did you make sure to take Krakoa and perhaps some AP boost?
  My write up doesn't have the step by step written in, but I tried to make sure the important parts were there. Any team with Chasm has the opportunity for something like Car or Copter to kill you, but if you go in prepared that should almost never happen.

Neither are ascended, didn't realise that was needed but I suspected might be needed. I took R5 Krakoa and +1 all ap boost.

BriMan2222

Neither are ascended, didn't realise that was needed but I suspected might be needed. I took R5 Krakoa and +1 all ap boost.

You want coulson ascended so he will make 5 countdowns everytime an ally fires a power instead of only 1 (he gains the team ap every time a countdown tile goes off) but you don't want MM ascended as his threshold needed for his insta win goes up

WhiteBomber

@entrailbucket said:
@WhiteBomber seems like you know what you want for this thread, and it's very specific. I don't think I can help too much with it though, so good luck!

On the contrary! Your roster is capable of learning more than the vast majority of those who play the game. Anything new you might try with your off-brand ascended characters against these teams could help others. Like Magik4... no one is talking about her once ascended and her passive get's kinda crazy.

I've heard you say in the past that you only run them when god boosted, but if you wanted to take the time to get weird, you could probably find some good stuff. I totally get not wanting to take the time though, there is too much to go through and no good way of tracking it (yet).

I also try to be as open and accurate as possible; everyone's experience could be different (especially at other levels of play) so if you tell me, MThor is needed over or with the 4 listed for X team/s, I would totally try it out. Currently, she is one of the best characters in the game, no doubt, but that one little section is very specific, yes.

I could have added more context to my play style/goal of finding the most consistent/efficient teams for whatever I am fighting. This does not take in to consideration things like "time to beat" etc. EX: Electro, Wong, Switch I have at the top of that list because that team can most consistently come out of that fight very healthy (for me). Others can win for sure, but that is the team I know I can spend a few extra turns safely winning and healing everyone back up, saving healthpacks. I will totally be trying more with Elektra now though, since I haven't played her nearly as much.

WhiteBomber

@BriMan2222 said:

Neither are ascended, didn't realise that was needed but I suspected might be needed. I took R5 Krakoa and +1 all ap boost.

You want coulson ascended so he will make 5 countdowns everytime an ally fires a power instead of only 1 (he gains the team ap every time a countdown tile goes off) but you don't want MM ascended as his threshold needed for his insta win goes up

Most definitely. Apologies for not finding a better way to highlight that. Multiman teams can mostly win without him being ascended, but Coulson for sure needs to be ascended due to the 4 additional countdowns being how you gain so much AP so immediately.

This is my current experience surrounding the ones I mentioned:

• Darkveil: Fully functional (if not MORE functional) un-ascended due to sending enemies away with such little damage. Very susceptible to Chasm and ORed.
• Multiman: Very usable un-ascended with the right partners if you want to win using his clones. Be very careful fighting team damage though! Once ascended, he shrugs off the team damage and his blue protects become decent.
• BlackKing: With good partners he can still shut down MThor and SAP spam teams, but usually takes more more damage than desired for me since his match damage passive will shoot above your 5stars.
• Agatha3: Ascended to 4, if you use her correctly, she can immediately buff your protect tiles enough to dominate, but if you lose your protect tiles, hope you aren't fighting team damage, because she is dead. Recommend 5 for sure, but in the right way, she can schmidt on specific teams at 3 and 4. Also hope you don't kill yourself with the bug that reverses protects.
• Coulson: Basically needs ascension. He goes from 1 countdown to 5 (which is crazy) and he needs the extra health to survive his countdowns triggering at least once to end the match.

entrailbucket

@WhiteBomber sorry! I didn't mean to come off as dismissive, I just didn't grasp what exactly you were after here. I think I was trying to offer some more general tips, where you're after something that's really very specific (to a play style I don't totally understand!).

If you have some more specific questions I'm happy to answer those, but I don't want to step on your toes or offer advice that's not relevant.

ThaRoadWarrior

I've been messing around with Silver Surfer based teams to try and counter these Chasms in sim; I don't know if I quite yet have one I'd recommend but I've been able to beat Chasm/may/omega red (works great against 4a5 juggernaut also) and come out with a full health team, and chasm/m'baku/ascended namor (didn't come out with a full health team) with 5* Electro (lvl 467) with a 4* Vintage Shield for the ~62% chance to start a battle with 3 yellow AP, 5* Silver Surfer (lvl 467) with a 5* Power Stone (for the free powers, obviously), and a 5* Okoye (lvl 487) with a 5* Royal Talon Fighter and starting with +2 to green/black, +2 red/yellow, +2 to all. This team works better against teams with AOE so that Okoye stays flush with yellow and therefore healthy. She is a bit at odds with Electro's conditional black that wants a low number of team up on the board, but it's offset by the damage boost. Silver Surfer can also keep himself healthy, and is immune to the turn 1 stun, and you have a pretty decent chance of firing off one of his expensive but hard hitting powers when he is tanking the entire board if you chase a cascade there. If you're really lucky he'll make an early Singularity and you can decide which character you want to instakill on the enemy team a few turns in. Try and get rid of May or Namor first if you can, but it's not always possible to avoid their boost hitting somebody early at least once. Electro's weakness on damage reduction is that the person out front eats the initial match damage, but so long as that person is Surfer or ideally Okoye, that's no big deal. There are likely better free yellow supports, or supports at 5* with much better chances to start with a lot of yellow, but these seem like the best I can field right now. The other support option there is to try and get a ton of Black at turn 1 through Ebony Maw or similar, and see if you can get singularity down early actively, or else use Electro's black after she wakes up to burn down Namor/May if you can't get rid of them manually.

WhiteBomber

@Road_Warrior I like the idea of trying to revive Okoye (I also love the idea of EVER using Surfer), but do you always max out your AP boosts? Does everyone do this!?

WhiteBomber

On my road to ascending Bloob, I have been looking for more fun teams for him. I slightly noted this in my write-up, but MayParker5 and Blob4 are very good friends. If you are fighting any Polaris team, including the main ones noted here, you should definitely try these teams for the funsies:

• SpiderMay5 w/ Lucky
• Blob4 w/ copter (most any decent support will do)
• Moondragon4 or Mr Negative4 or Coulson4 (ascended only)

My Bloob still isn't ascended and these teams were having a blast. Quite excited to have him ascended.

entrailbucket

@WhiteBomber said:
On my road to ascending Bloob, I have been looking for more fun teams for him. I slightly noted this in my write-up, but MayParker5 and Blob4 are very good friends. If you are fighting any Polaris team, including the main ones noted here, you should definitely try these teams for the funsies:

• SpiderMay5 w/ Lucky
• Blob4 w/ copter (most any decent support will do)
• Moondragon4 or Mr Negative4 or Coulson4 (ascended only)

My Bloob still isn't ascended and these teams were having a blast. Quite excited to have him ascended.

Blob/Polaris/Hawkeye is extremely silly.

ThaRoadWarrior

@WhiteBomber said:
@Road_Warrior I like the idea of trying to revive Okoye (I also love the idea of EVER using Surfer), but do you always max out your AP boosts? Does everyone do this!?

I don’t always do this, I only sometimes do this. I have a lot more boosts than I do maxed out supports that give free AP

WhiteBomber

Ok, I've found significantly more Chasm, Namor, Baku and hot damn, I can't believe she was sitting there, all this time, super chilly with no sweater, on the bench, just waiting for her moment:

• Phylavell5 w/ AI
• Moondragon4 w/ Eros
• Mayparker5 or Colussus5 w/ Lucky or Chasm w/ Totem

This is why I love this game. I've killed about 10 of them so far with varying versions of Phyla and Moondragon. Their entire team is match damage, and every hit Phyla takes, she just heals back up to 10% health due to that once useless passive. On top of that, she does permanent damage, which is nice.

It's not the fastest, but I have come out safely and not needing health packs at all. You don't need to heal Phyla because of her passive. Sometimes Lucky will give you a strike tile worth a few hundred K, so aim for your single strongest color to speed it up.

I've updated the list with this one and will add the new broken Moondragon counters in once the dust settles.

Daniel2121

Sabertooth counters 4* Grocket nicely, in case you didn't know already. Maybe team him up with the likes of Morbius and/or Mantis.

Daniel2121

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
I've been messing around with Silver Surfer based teams to try and counter these Chasms in sim; I don't know if I quite yet have one I'd recommend but I've been able to beat Chasm/may/omega red (works great against 4a5 juggernaut also) and come out with a full health team, and chasm/m'baku/ascended namor (didn't come out with a full health team) with 5* Electro (lvl 467) with a 4* Vintage Shield for the ~62% chance to start a battle with 3 yellow AP, 5* Silver Surfer (lvl 467) with a 5* Power Stone (for the free powers, obviously), and a 5* Okoye (lvl 487) with a 5* Royal Talon Fighter and starting with +2 to green/black, +2 red/yellow, +2 to all. This team works better against teams with AOE so that Okoye stays flush with yellow and therefore healthy. She is a bit at odds with Electro's conditional black that wants a low number of team up on the board, but it's offset by the damage boost. Silver Surfer can also keep himself healthy, and is immune to the turn 1 stun, and you have a pretty decent chance of firing off one of his expensive but hard hitting powers when he is tanking the entire board if you chase a cascade there. If you're really lucky he'll make an early Singularity and you can decide which character you want to instakill on the enemy team a few turns in. Try and get rid of May or Namor first if you can, but it's not always possible to avoid their boost hitting somebody early at least once. Electro's weakness on damage reduction is that the person out front eats the initial match damage, but so long as that person is Surfer or ideally Okoye, that's no big deal. There are likely better free yellow supports, or supports at 5* with much better chances to start with a lot of yellow, but these seem like the best I can field right now. The other support option there is to try and get a ton of Black at turn 1 through Ebony Maw or similar, and see if you can get singularity down early actively, or else use Electro's black after she wakes up to burn down Namor/May if you can't get rid of them manually.

Doesn't 5* Moon Knight counter stuns? I think he does return stuns back to the stunner if memory isn't failing me

DAZ0273

5* Moon Knight is stun immune and causes damage every time you try and stun him.

bluewolf

5MK’s counter on stuns is really quite large (my 457 does 33k dmg) although he’s a tiny bit slow and low dmg otherwise and obviously doesn’t have other passives. But he’s definitely better imo to build a “nyah nyah can’t stun me” team around than Surfer is.

DAZ0273

I enjoy running him with 5* Elektra especially when they are boosted because as well as his stun counter he has the green power which neutralises some damage and reflects it back to a chosen character and she has her counter-attack traps - I pity the fool who attacks my team!