Agatha Harkness (Coven Leader) 5*

trenchdigger

Hard to judge how good she will be before trying, out but initial impression is good.
This time last year we had Omega Red, year before was Chasm. Coincidence, or do BCS aim to release a new meta around anniversary each year?

I wonder how the yellow passive operates? Is it team mate specific, ie. if team mate A makes a match, only team mate A gets an additional increase to match damage, or both team mates gain the increase?

GrimSkald

@KGB said:

@GrimSkald said:
Blue is interesting. It takes a while to "build," but you basically build your own power based on what colors you match. At least that's my read on it. I assume you stop building once you've made six matches, and it becomes "the power" at 6 ap? Even without the rider effects, that damage for 6 blue isn't terrible, but the fact that it takes 6 matches to "build up" is definitely a drawback. Since TUs don't count, it could be as many as 8 or 9 turns, or you could get it in one with a good cascade.

The way it reads to me is that matches 1-6 do normal damage.

Match 7+ does an effect based on which color you match (red = bonus damage, yellow = heal etc). You don't need to match red 6x to get the red power. You get all the powers after 6 matches. Then if you need some immediate damage you can fire the alternate Blue power and go back to 0 count and 0 bonus affects based on match color until you reach 6 matches again. It's another case of why would you ever fire the alternate Blue power to reset the count unless you were desperate (ie about to die).

KGB

It's hard to tell, but my read is every match you make until the first six adds the noted effect to the 6 AP "transformed power." So, for example, if you match 2 red, 2 purple, 1 green and 1 yellow
the blue would then do 975 + 1594 (2x797) damage, stun two random targets, heal allies for 35% and Agatha for 975 -- all of those numbers scaled up I'm sure. It then reverts to the 3 AP blue for adding tiles to the board, so you, say, add black and get a cascade of 3 black matches (lucky!), and 1 yellow. Next turn you get a small cascade of 2 blue matches. Now the blue would do the base 975 damage, destroy 3 random friendly and enemy tiles, gain 2 sets of 2 random AP, and heal Agatha for 975.

That's my read anyway. It's definitely slow and wonky, but hey, match 6 red in a row and you're dealing a lot of damage, and the only really annoying rider effect is black.

trenchdigger

That's so different from my interpretation.

After 6 friendly non Team-Up matches, this ability becomes Augmented Arcanum, adding an effect per match:
Red: 797 extra damage
Green: 35% of damage to target’s allies
Yellow: Agatha is healed for 975 health
Blue: Gain 2 random AP in your strongest colors
Purple: Stun a random target for 1 turn (max 3).
Black: Destroy 1 random friendly and enemy tile.

You don't have to do anything for the blue power to become Augmented Arcanum, it just changes after the team have made 6 colour matches. Once the power changes, each match has a single extra effect added to it, as described above.

If you then fire blue (which at levels 3 and 5 only does the same damage as matching red once) you go back to the starting state and have to make 6 more matches before the extra effects apply again. So unless you can fire blue before 6 matches are made (to convert 3 tiles) then you are very unlikely to want to fire her blue at all. @KGB I have just realised this is exactly in line with your interpretation above.

bluewolf

Just a reminder that everything on this post is subject to change.

They modified Purple Man at release.

entrailbucket

@bluewolf said:
Just a reminder that everything on this post is subject to change.

They modified Purple Man at release.

I wouldn't even notice if it did change.

Seriously how does anybody read that mess and decide if she's good or bad? There's like 8 totally plausible interpretations of how those passives will work, and they range from "game-breaking" to "garbage."

Hellblazer666

I am surprised The MCU version isn't getting put in the game. But I Think the comic ones are just fine

Tony_Foot

@KGB said:
Given Wiccan is starring in her show I'd say that's a safe bet.

KGB

Yep, because mines at 451 when I ascended after they lied about not losing anything. I will rage for half hour or so I'm sure.

slidecage

Got doom and witch 450 plus so guess won't be dec till I get her. Might do 40 pulls for 1000hp. If good 2000hp max

GrimSkald

@Tony_Foot said:

@KGB said:
Given Wiccan is starring in her show I'd say that's a safe bet.

KGB

Yep, because mines at 451 when I ascended after they lied about not losing anything. I will rage for half hour or so I'm sure.

Favorite him and apply covers in the first week. It'll be worth it.

GrimSkald

@trenchdigger said:
That's so different from my interpretation.

After 6 friendly non Team-Up matches, this ability becomes Augmented Arcanum, adding an effect per match:
Red: 797 extra damage
Green: 35% of damage to target’s allies
Yellow: Agatha is healed for 975 health
Blue: Gain 2 random AP in your strongest colors
Purple: Stun a random target for 1 turn (max 3).
Black: Destroy 1 random friendly and enemy tile.

You don't have to do anything for the blue power to become Augmented Arcanum, it just changes after the team have made 6 colour matches. Once the power changes, each match has a single extra effect added to it, as described above.

If you then fire blue (which at levels 3 and 5 only does the same damage as matching red once) you go back to the starting state and have to make 6 more matches before the extra effects apply again. So unless you can fire blue before 6 matches are made (to convert 3 tiles) then you are very unlikely to want to fire her blue at all. @KGB I have just realised this is exactly in line with your interpretation above.

Possible, but I think if they meant this then the "rider" powers would be on the "Augmented Arcanum" power, and not the "Complex Invocation" power. My interpretation ends up with a bit more powerful "Augmented Arcanum" (you get the power with all the rider effects you "built" on it,) the other is more open-ended (keep matching red to increase the damage!)

We'll see, probably Thursday.

GrimSkald

@KGB said:
Given Wiccan is starring in her show I'd say that's a safe bet.

KGB

Wiccan seems absolutely the most likely - I checked and the only other "supernatural" 4* that doesn't feed anyone is Morbius, and as far as I know there's no connection there.

It did occur to me, though, that since she took care of Franklin Richards they could have Sue Storm feed her. She doesn't feed anyone since they took Doom away from her. Still, the connection with Wiccan seems a lot better...

MgoBlue51

So, her yellow passive plus shang or colossus... Going to get insane, very quickly.

Jinx

The way I read it, you would never want to fire yellow at all because it cuts the match damage bonus in half for no real benefit and after 6 matches, you would never fire blue because you would lose the special effects on every match. Purple is the only color you would use.

Jinx

Might try her with ascended versions of Chavez and Northstar if the match damage bonuses stack.

GrimSkald

@Jinx said:
The way I read it, you would never want to fire yellow at all because it cuts the match damage bonus in half for no real benefit and after 6 matches, you would never fire blue because you would lose the special effects on every match. Purple is the only color you would use.

I'm pretty sure that's not how Blue works. It's not phrased great, to be sure, but the fact that it says it "adds an effect per match" and the stun has a "max 3" on it would seem to indicate that it adds it to the 6-cost "Augmented Arcanum" effect. The big question is what matches add riders to the power? I see three possibilities:

• All matches until the power is fired (then you add new riders.)
• The first six matches, then the power "flips" to the 6 point version and is set until fired
• Only matches after the power flips (i.e. the matches after the first six non-TU matches.)

I think it's the second option, others think it's the third, but I definitely see the first as possible as well. We'll see through play after tomorrow -- unless she's not fed by her two obvious choices I'm sure we'll see some fully covered Agathas pretty much immediately.

I was also clearly mistaken on my earlier example - I don't know if they updated the power or if I didn't notice the added effects on the additional levels, but additional purple matches add more turns to the stun, not more targets. It's max 3 at base level, 4 at the 3 cover level, and 5 at the 5 cover level. So if you make 2 purple matches then fire blue, a random target is stunned for 2 turns (rather than 2 targets stunned for 1.)

slidecage

@Jinx said:
The way I read it, you would never want to fire yellow at all because it cuts the match damage bonus in half for no real benefit and after 6 matches, you would never fire blue because you would lose the special effects on every match. Purple is the only color you would use.

So she mostly sucks cause you can never use her powers?

WhiteBomber

@slidecage said:

@Jinx said:
The way I read it, you would never want to fire yellow at all because it cuts the match damage bonus in half for no real benefit and after 6 matches, you would never fire blue because you would lose the special effects on every match. Purple is the only color you would use.

So she mostly sucks cause you can never use her powers?

Seems more likely the the opposite... because you never have to use her powers, like: Hulk, Chavez, Chasm, Red, Witch etc. All which have graced the top 10 in the game at some point (maybe not Chavez).

Passively doing things > using AP to do things. In this instance the AI will likely do you dirty on defense though. I think there are likely some instances where you would use some of those actives, especially with characters who do things when you cast. Plus it sounds like we also don't really know what happens when you cast them yet

It seems crazy that there is no cap on that match damage, but I suppose beast does similar when ascended.

slidecage

Guess I give it 2500 hp for 100 pulls. Hopefully get at least 6 of her

Then again her best power is yellow right. Hopefully at least one yellow

More then likely I will wait till she goes in ll. In Nov or Dec

GrimSkald

@WhiteBomber said:

@slidecage said:

@Jinx said:
The way I read it, you would never want to fire yellow at all because it cuts the match damage bonus in half for no real benefit and after 6 matches, you would never fire blue because you would lose the special effects on every match. Purple is the only color you would use.

So she mostly sucks cause you can never use her powers?

Seems more likely the the opposite... because you never have to use her powers, like: Hulk, Chavez, Chasm, Red, Witch etc. All which have graced the top 10 in the game at some point (maybe not Chavez).

Passively doing things > using AP to do things. In this instance the AI will likely do you dirty on defense though. I think there are likely some instances where you would use some of those actives, especially with characters who do things when you cast. Plus it sounds like we also don't really know what happens when you cast them yet

It seems crazy that there is no cap on that match damage, but I suppose beast does similar when ascended.

I also think that interpretation of blue is flawed. Spending 3 blue to add a color to the board is decent -- it's not going to be useful all the time but sometimes it will be the difference between getting a game-ending power off or not. The "Augmented Arcanum" argument depends on whether you get the effects when you make matches (which I really don't think is the case) or when you fire the 6 ap blue power. In the former case it's going to be great (probably too great, to be honest, stunning a random enemy every time you match purple is pretty amazing,) in the latter, the power is going to be very usable as it does decent damage regardless and will potentially have nasty rider effects.

As far as her other powers go, her purple is definitely meh - 4- or 3-turn repeaters very rarely proc before they're destroyed. OTOH they at least do damage when the happens, but still, it's just ok. It's definitely an option if you don't have another purple user on the team, but it's not exactly a power that blows you away.

I agree that the yellow is going to see a lot more use as a passive than the active portion. It's pretty good, and for characters with enhanced match damage (Colossus, Shang-Chi, Ascended Chavez, Beast, Ghost, etc.) it's going to be very good. Since yellow sets you back, you'll use it as a emergency "save this character from dying" or to finish the match.

Bzhai

You need to factor in her yellow passive which increases her ability damage, which doesn't indicate to have a cap. So let her team mates build up damage with match damage and when the enemy is low on health you pull the trigger with her blue.

Now imagine if her team mates are MThor and Shang Chi with Fantasticar support. Things will escalate very quickly.