Character Rebalance - Doctor Strange (Sorcerer Supreme) 5*

Pantera236

The yellow is at 550 and 5 covers but the blue is 550 at 3 covers. That's where some of the confusion was coming in I think.

entrailbucket

@Borstock said:

@entrailbucket said:
I'll use him when he's boosted, and he's going to be pretty good when he's boosted. He'll ride the bench like everyone else until it's his week.

I have Dr Strange at 550 and currently he's completely unplayable in every situation, including when he's boosted to 672. This buff makes him playable during that week. Do you really want them to make more Thors?

Dr. Thor is my favorite character in the game. So, yes. I'd be fine with that.

I was using Thor as a stand-in for "overpowered character."

Do you want them to make more pre-nerf Chasms? These guys shouldn't be usable unboosted.

Daredevil217

@Pantera236 said:
The yellow is at 550 and 5 covers but the blue is 550 at 3 covers. That's where some of the confusion was coming in I think.

Yes! That’s it. It does 10406 at 5 covers. Blue is definitely a buff between the extra turn CD, much more damage than I thought and the reduced cost. I’m excited for him.

I originally thought
Old: 9 AP, 13798 damage and -3 AP for 3 turns, 3 turn stun.

New: 6 AP, 6155 damage and -3 AP for 1 turn, 2 turn stun.

Now I know it’s:
New: 6 AP, 10406 damage and -3 AP for 2 turns, 2 turn stun.

Borstock

@entrailbucket said:

@Borstock said:

@entrailbucket said:
I'll use him when he's boosted, and he's going to be pretty good when he's boosted. He'll ride the bench like everyone else until it's his week.

I have Dr Strange at 550 and currently he's completely unplayable in every situation, including when he's boosted to 672. This buff makes him playable during that week. Do you really want them to make more Thors?

Dr. Thor is my favorite character in the game. So, yes. I'd be fine with that.

I was using Thor as a stand-in for "overpowered character."

Do you want them to make more pre-nerf Chasms? These guys shouldn't be usable unboosted.

I understood what you meant. I just don't agree with your assessment of the character. Never have.

Pantera236

Is this new? Feel like I would've bought it before.

DAZ0273

@entrailbucket said:

@Borstock said:

@entrailbucket said:
I'll use him when he's boosted, and he's going to be pretty good when he's boosted. He'll ride the bench like everyone else until it's his week.

I have Dr Strange at 550 and currently he's completely unplayable in every situation, including when he's boosted to 672. This buff makes him playable during that week. Do you really want them to make more Thors?

Dr. Thor is my favorite character in the game. So, yes. I'd be fine with that.

I was using Thor as a stand-in for "overpowered character."

Do you want them to make more pre-nerf Chasms? These guys shouldn't be usable unboosted.

Hey Chasm is boosted too!

Boost off!

Bowgentle

@Pantera236 said:

Is this new? Feel like I would've bought it before.

Definitely new yes.

GrimSkald

@Daredevil217 said:
Well Thor isn’t the original Thor. Before her there was Shang. And before him Okoye. And before her… other Thor.

Glass cannons that do tons of damage and accelerate self/others but are super easy to beat… based on the history of this game and the fan favorite stores, I’d say yeah, people probably want (and will likely get at some point) another “Thor”. A very very small minority will cry nerf and complain about new Thor a ton and it will be lovely. Until of course we get new new Thor where the cycle will again repeat itself.

One can argue that we've had S tier characters (which I would define as "usable even when not boosted if there's synergy with a boosted character or it's a bad week") as recently as Omega Red, which isn't that long ago. Out of the recent crop I'd say Goose and X-23 decidedly don't suck, though the latter is only really good offensively since she's tricky to use well.

entrailbucket

@GrimSkald said:

@Daredevil217 said:
Well Thor isn’t the original Thor. Before her there was Shang. And before him Okoye. And before her… other Thor.

Glass cannons that do tons of damage and accelerate self/others but are super easy to beat… based on the history of this game and the fan favorite stores, I’d say yeah, people probably want (and will likely get at some point) another “Thor”. A very very small minority will cry nerf and complain about new Thor a ton and it will be lovely. Until of course we get new new Thor where the cycle will again repeat itself.

One can argue that we've had S tier characters (which I would define as "usable even when not boosted if there's synergy with a boosted character or it's a bad week") as recently as Omega Red, which isn't that long ago. Out of the recent crop I'd say Goose and X-23 decidedly don't suck, though the latter is only really good offensively since she's tricky to use well.

"Usable when not boosted if there's synergy with a boosted character or it's a bad week" is pushing it, but I think it's ok. In that category you're looking at folks like Colossus, Omega Red, Apocalypse, maybe a few more. I don't think New Dr. Strange is at that level, but I don't think he's too terribly far behind, either.

Thor is "usable when not boosted at all times, regardless of synergy or circumstances or boost week." Chasm was the same way.

I think the tier Dr. Strange is currently in, post-buff, is a good target for character reworks. Folks complaining that he's weak, when compared to characters who are way too strong, aren't thinking about what the game would look like if every single character was S+ tier.

Daredevil217

Before this gets too out of hand, can we please not derail this thread into another topic that has been drilled into the ground forever. Certain posters personal feelings on Thor are well-established. Clearly she’s a very popular character in the game based on fan fave metrics. Not everyone loves her or her impact on the game, and that’s fine too.

I’m just trying to avoid work for the mods when this inevitably derails.

Back to Strange… I see him falling in that Jean Grey level of rework which was arguably one of the best ones in my opinion. His kit was already super solid mechanically so I’m glad they didn’t reinvent the wheel.

I hope Daredevil gets the same treatment. Lower costs. Higher damage. Make hand-to-hand passive if a tile doesn’t exist (and let it generate purple instead of green), and call it good!

Pantera236

I'd be happy if DD green went to 6 AP.

GrimSkald

@entrailbucket said:

@GrimSkald said:

@Daredevil217 said:
Well Thor isn’t the original Thor. Before her there was Shang. And before him Okoye. And before her… other Thor.

Glass cannons that do tons of damage and accelerate self/others but are super easy to beat… based on the history of this game and the fan favorite stores, I’d say yeah, people probably want (and will likely get at some point) another “Thor”. A very very small minority will cry nerf and complain about new Thor a ton and it will be lovely. Until of course we get new new Thor where the cycle will again repeat itself.

One can argue that we've had S tier characters (which I would define as "usable even when not boosted if there's synergy with a boosted character or it's a bad week") as recently as Omega Red, which isn't that long ago. Out of the recent crop I'd say Goose and X-23 decidedly don't suck, though the latter is only really good offensively since she's tricky to use well.

"Usable when not boosted if there's synergy with a boosted character or it's a bad week" is pushing it, but I think it's ok. In that category you're looking at folks like Colossus, Omega Red, Apocalypse, maybe a few more. I don't think New Dr. Strange is at that level, but I don't think he's too terribly far behind, either.

Thor is "usable when not boosted at all times, regardless of synergy or circumstances or boost week." Chasm was the same way.

I think the tier Dr. Strange is currently in, post-buff, is a good target for character reworks. Folks complaining that he's weak, when compared to characters who are way too strong, aren't thinking about what the game would look like if every single character was S+ tier.

My Dr. Thor is tied for my highest level 5* at 535. I've also cultivated a relatively high roster in general -- I generally like to leave only "C" and "D" tier below 470ish otherwise I like to level each 5* reasonably high based on how often I think I'll use them on their boost week. In general, I'll trot out my MThor on the Sim, when she plays very well with one of the boosted 5s (which is sometimes, not always, she does play badly with people who need tiles on the board like X-23, Crystal, or MK,) or if the boosted 5*s are just so bad they're not worth playing.

I do see a lot of her and Shang when I'm under 500 in PVP, though. She's definitely out there a lot. Regardless I'd argue she's at the top of the current crop of characters, but I don't think she stands head and shoulders above them all. Shang is close to as prevalent, particularly in PVE teams.

At any rate, I agree with you completely regarding Strange. He's not S tier, but he's edging on it, and I think I'd call him A tier (the best of the "use when boosted" crowd, and you may use him if he plays really well with a boosted.) I also agree with your list of S tier characters -- I may also include Riri and SW, though the former doesn't stand very well on her own.

entrailbucket

None of these characters exist in a vacuum, and pretending they do isn't productive. How can we talk about how powerful or useful Dr. Strange is without comparing him to other characters?

If you're comparing him to overpowered guys, he looks terrible -- and he should! We don't need more of those guys, they should fix the ones we already have. If you're comparing him to the majority of characters (who are great/usable when they get +100 levels or have synergy or a particular niche to fill) he falls well within that tier.

marvel075

one thing to note, this might be a bug but if a enemy fires a power THAT EMEMY takes the passive damage now, instead of just the target

slidecage

@entrailbucket said:
I'll use him when he's boosted, and he's going to be pretty good when he's boosted. He'll ride the bench like everyone else until it's his week.

I have Dr Strange at 550 and currently he's completely unplayable in every situation, including when he's boosted to 672. This buff makes him playable during that week. Do you really want them to make more Thors?

Is he even unplayable when you go against 3 goons. You would think all of their powers firing would make him useable

S0kun

Updated stats with actual numbers for Blue and Purple.

Bzhai

@Daredevil217 said:

I hope Daredevil gets the same treatment. Lower costs. Higher damage. Make hand-to-hand passive if a tile doesn’t exist (and let it generate purple instead of green), and call it good!

Always thought he should have a dodge and counter mechanic like silver samurai. Make it a stacking buff to show him dodging stuff like a ninja. It would be a good counter against crazy cascades from mthor and shang chi teams.

revskip

@DAZ0273 said:

@Borstock said:

@entrailbucket said:
I'll use him when he's boosted, and he's going to be pretty good when he's boosted. He'll ride the bench like everyone else until it's his week.

I have Dr Strange at 550 and currently he's completely unplayable in every situation, including when he's boosted to 672. This buff makes him playable during that week. Do you really want them to make more Thors?

Dr. Thor is my favorite character in the game. So, yes. I'd be fine with that.

A good boost week for you!

Oh good instead of being everywhere in PvP, she'll be everywhere in PvP and a little more HP. /sarcasm

entrailbucket

@marvel075 said:
one thing to note, this might be a bug but if a enemy fires a power THAT EMEMY takes the passive damage now, instead of just the target

I LOVE this. It means that on offense, you can't hide your casters behind a tank. Strange will kill your caster right through that.

I definitely don't want to derail the thread by talking about this buff's relation to other characters, or the overall metagame, but the current most popular team just happens to be a powerful caster that hides behind a true-healing tank.

I have a feeling that Dr Strange's boost week will be pretty bad for those players who only know how to use/have only bothered to level up those two characters.

tiomono

@marvel075 said:
one thing to note, this might be a bug but if a enemy fires a power THAT EMEMY takes the passive damage now, instead of just the target

I thought when you fire a power the character using the power jumps up front.