New Feature - Champions 2.0 (Live with R287)

skittledaddy

@GrimSkald said:

@GrimSkald said:

@IceIX said:

@GrimSkald said:
I have a question - how will retroactive rewards be handled? For example, I have two 370 America Chavez. If I bind the two of them, that will get me a 475 America Chavez. Let's say down the line an actual 5* America Chavez is released -- will I get 6 retro covers (because my America Chavez is technically just 475 which has passed by those 6 covers on America Chavez,) or will I get 12 retro covers (since I could have theoretically gotten the two sets if I kept them separate?)

I have a feeling it's going to be the former, but woof, that's a non-trivial number of covers.

No. A 4-Star Chavez will get 5 star Retro rewards since that’s what their Champ Reward schedule is. A 5-Star Chavez has it’s own schedule of rewards, so it wouldn’t count for those.

Right, but only one? If I kept them separate, then I could have theoretically gotten more...

I think I muddled the issue by picking someone who is already a feeder and now I'm very, very confused by @IceIX 's answer. Let's say I have two ... Northstars at 370. I bind them together and ascend to make a 475 Northstar. Sometime down the line, say, Vindicator is introduced to the game and Northstar is her 4* feeder and my Northstar is still 475. They give retroactive rewards. Do I get:

• 12 covers, because a 5* Northstar + 25 levels equals two full Northstars
• 6 covers, because I "expended" the extra Northstar to ascend and level the one, and now I just have one Northstar who are past those levels
• 0 covers, because I no longer have a 4* Northstar at all and my 5* Northstar doesn't count.

The second is a bit of an ouch, but makes sense. The last **really **sucks, and potentially is a big drawback of this system.

They way Ice explained it on Discord, it would be the 3rd option - i.e. 0 retro rewards.

Pantera236

@skittledaddy said:

@GrimSkald said:

@GrimSkald said:

@IceIX said:

@GrimSkald said:
I have a question - how will retroactive rewards be handled? For example, I have two 370 America Chavez. If I bind the two of them, that will get me a 475 America Chavez. Let's say down the line an actual 5* America Chavez is released -- will I get 6 retro covers (because my America Chavez is technically just 475 which has passed by those 6 covers on America Chavez,) or will I get 12 retro covers (since I could have theoretically gotten the two sets if I kept them separate?)

I have a feeling it's going to be the former, but woof, that's a non-trivial number of covers.

No. A 4-Star Chavez will get 5 star Retro rewards since that’s what their Champ Reward schedule is. A 5-Star Chavez has it’s own schedule of rewards, so it wouldn’t count for those.

Right, but only one? If I kept them separate, then I could have theoretically gotten more...

I think I muddled the issue by picking someone who is already a feeder and now I'm very, very confused by @IceIX 's answer. Let's say I have two ... Northstars at 370. I bind them together and ascend to make a 475 Northstar. Sometime down the line, say, Vindicator is introduced to the game and Northstar is her 4* feeder and my Northstar is still 475. They give retroactive rewards. Do I get:

• 12 covers, because a 5* Northstar + 25 levels equals two full Northstars
• 6 covers, because I "expended" the extra Northstar to ascend and level the one, and now I just have one Northstar who are past those levels
• 0 covers, because I no longer have a 4* Northstar at all and my 5* Northstar doesn't count.

The second is a bit of an ouch, but makes sense. The last **really **sucks, and potentially is a big drawback of this system.

They way Ice explained it on Discord, it would be the 3rd option - i.e. 0 retro rewards.

Welp, probably won't be ascending too many 4*s then. Especially if they are not already a feeder. As @bbigler said though it'll be great for 1 - 2 - 3 star farming.

Punter1

Certainly reads like option 3 and zero retro rewards for an ascended character. The 8 covers I recently got for Vulture and Miles, seem better than a 450ish ascended Vulture/Miles.

First world problems question - if you have a non-max ascended and another version of the character will I have to choose every time when applying covers? Currently I only ever have 1 copy of a character that can take covers so applying is easy and learned behavior from years of tapping. This could slow things down in just every day applying.

abominatrix

I haven't seen this answered yet, although I might have missed it.

I have 3 max-champed Polaris' (I don't, but I need this for the example). I ascend one of them with another, so now I have a level 475 5Polaris and a max champ 4. Can I ascend again and get a 500 5* Polaris, or is it one per customer so to speak?

I think this is pretty important esp. for the long-time players who have never sold anything (and you know who you are

tonypq

I like the concept, but not crazy how hard it will be to progress 4s to the next level how hard it is to get enough covers to build up a second duplicate. For 1/2s you get their covers like crazy, which seems like it would take a lot less time to up through the tiers.

Punter1

I think end result - seems great for 1s, decent for 2s, ok for 3s and limited use for 4s

And also entirely ignorable without really affecting most people

Scofie

@abominatrix said:
I haven't seen this answered yet, although I might have missed it.

I have 3 max-champed Polaris' (I don't, but I need this for the example). I ascend one of them with another, so now I have a level 475 5Polaris and a max champ 4. Can I ascend again and get a 500 5* Polaris, or is it one per customer so to speak?

I think this is pretty important esp. for the long-time players who have never sold anything (and you know who you are

It's just one per pair as I understand it.

MPQBlaine

@abominatrix said:
I haven't seen this answered yet, although I might have missed it.

I have 3 max-champed Polaris' (I don't, but I need this for the example). I ascend one of them with another, so now I have a level 475 5Polaris and a max champ 4. Can I ascend again and get a 500 5* Polaris, or is it one per customer so to speak?

I think this is pretty important esp. for the long-time players who have never sold anything (and you know who you are

Not at launch. With the example listed above, you would end up with 1 475 5* Polaris and the remaining maxed out 4* Polaris. We see the opportunity for growth here and will look into it in the future.

ThaRoadWarrior

Any basic predictive math we might use to see if we want to jump somebody up? It’s a pretty big commitment to erase a 4* in terms of your actual human life spent grinding them, would be a shame if you had buyer’s remorse from a stat blind-bag

IceIX

@SuperCarrot said:

@Crowl said:
What a horribly convoluted way to try and sell more roster slots.

If you actually wanted to let people use their favourites at all levels, you should have set it up so a 1* ascended to 5* could actually be used at any of the 5 tiers as needed and would just be treated as a max champion on the lower tiers without you needing to have multiple versions of the same champion outside of those needed for binding.

Even before you get started, you'd need 3 lots of a champion before you'd want to ascend, one to ascend, one to bind and one to be used at the original rank.

Such a horrible system, that ironically would have actually worked quite well for the horribly neglected supports since you can only use one of those at a time.

Really well said. There will be many uniformed players make the mistake of ascending a 2 or 3 star then get messed over when it is a required character, I’d bet. If I am understanding this system correctly

You are a bit mistaken. If a required character for a node is "Vulture (Classic)", you can use any rarity. So in that case, 3, 4, or 5 would work. If the node requires "3-Star Characters Only" then you can use any 3-Star. That could be 3-Star Iron Fist or 3-Star Ascended Iron Man (Model 35), but NOT 4-Star Ascended Iron Fist, since he's not 3-Star anymore. There are currently no nodes in the game (and none planned for anything in the near term) that require "3-Star Vulture (Classic)".

ThaRoadWarrior

I think those uninformed players are more likely to get locked out of DDQ nodes that require star characters. I guess speaking of DDQ, are the Crash nodes Star agnostic? Or do you need a 4* version of the required there?

IceIX

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
Any basic predictive math we might use to see if we want to jump somebody up? It’s a pretty big commitment to erase a 4* in terms of your actual human life spent grinding them, would be a shame if you had buyer’s remorse from a stat blind-bag

Kind of hard to say. There's a base translation matrix that we put the characters through for base multipliers for things like damage, healing, tile strength, etc. A 2-Star has higher multipliers, 3 higher, etc etc. Then we fine tune things when the multipliers don't work out (5-Stars actually have LOWER multipliers, but make it up through their higher levels. You see that right now on fresh 255 abilities versus competitive 270 4-Stars). So we then go in and make sure that the numbers make sense but don't make the 5-Star or whatever too OP. So the best way to respond here is "A 4-Star Ascended 3-Star will be using the same ability budget as a natural 4-Star" and you will fall within that range.

Blackstone

@ThisisClemFandango said:
Could never get the gif thing to work but you know the lumberjack one where he turns and smiles and nods with respect.
That one

I think you're talking about the Robert Redford one...... But it's odd to me hear him referred to as "lumberjack".

Guess I'm officially old now.

ThisisClemFandango

@Blackstone said:

@ThisisClemFandango said:
Could never get the gif thing to work but you know the lumberjack one where he turns and smiles and nods with respect.
That one

I think you're talking about the Robert Redford one...... But it's odd to me hear him referred to as "lumberjack".

Guess I'm officially old now.

That's robert redford?!

KGB

Really looking forward to this.

I think I'll experiment with a 2* character and see how long it takes to ascend to a 4* level just to get a feel for things and how I like the system. I still get scads of them and not as many 1* anymore.

KGB

ThaRoadWarrior

But no meaningful way to predict say how big Rocket’s strikes are going to be, or the damage threshold for Best Defense (that already becomes worthless when Valkyrie is boosted for having too high a threshold like many such powers)?

Omegased

Is THIS why Fury got nerfed?

ThaRoadWarrior

I’ve just rostered a second 1* storm just to try it out. I do thing a jumped up 2* Storm, depending on the threshold of her AOE clapback at elevated tiers, could be pretty wild.

Any thought to bringing back the “standard token for 100 iso” store?

entrailbucket

@MPQBlaine said:

@abominatrix said:
I haven't seen this answered yet, although I might have missed it.

I have 3 max-champed Polaris' (I don't, but I need this for the example). I ascend one of them with another, so now I have a level 475 5Polaris and a max champ 4. Can I ascend again and get a 500 5* Polaris, or is it one per customer so to speak?

I think this is pretty important esp. for the long-time players who have never sold anything (and you know who you are

Not at launch. With the example listed above, you would end up with 1 475 5* Polaris and the remaining maxed out 4* Polaris. We see the opportunity for growth here and will look into it in the future.

When you created Champions 1.0, there was a brief window afterwards where players could submit a request to CS and have duplicate characters "broken" so they could be applied as champion levels.

Why not offer the same service now? The number of players with multiple maxed-out triples for any character is probably really low. You could address the situation now and not have to worry about it in the future at all.

fnedude

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
I’ve just rostered a second 1* storm just to try it out. I do thing a jumped up 2* Storm, depending on the threshold of her AOE clapback at elevated tiers, could be pretty wild.

Any thought to bringing back the “standard token for 100 iso” store?

I'm waiting in the wings for this to come back.... 18M iso in my bank.

Waiting for it to go BBBBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR