New Feature - Champions 2.0 (Live with R287)

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Comments

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,451 Chairperson of the Boards

    5* Medusa didn’t trigger the vault token for today, but unascended ghost rider did. PSA I guess

  • danielrandkai
    danielrandkai Posts: 90 Match Maker

    so if i have a max leveled america chavez and a second copy but it's a level 303 i'm screwed because the second copy is at 13 covers and not champed?

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,451 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2023

    How do you have an unchamped 4* at level 303? Or do you mean cover spread 3/0/3?

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    @ArchusMonk said:

    @bbigler said:
    Eureka! I've got it! The best way to maximize champ rewards with ascending: the Max+Max ascending "tax" only applies in the next tier, NOT the tier you start > @Bad said:

    @bbigler said:
    @Bad @entrailbucket
    You don’t need to pay ISO leveling costs and champ fees in subsequent tiers. When ascending, they start as baby champs. So, you only need to pay for the base tier, everything else is “free”.

    So that means the costs are one of these:
    16 x max level 1-stars
    8 x 2-star champs
    4 x 3-Star champs
    2 x 4-Star champs

    None of those options get near 1 million

    I couldn't ascend psylocke until paying the iso for champing her, like I was saying.
    So ascending 2 4s: 365k iso each one, plus all the 3s.
    1 million iso more or less.
    A lot more than a bit less.

    I’m not sure what “plus all the 3s means”, but if you’re talking about Ascending your 4 Psylocke again, no further ISO is needed because the character produced is already at champion level, so ISO costs are only payed at a characters native level. After that, it’s all covers. If I misunderstood what you were saying, then I apologize.

    This belongs to aconversation where he said any new player could get a 550 1*.
    I told him any no because it cost more than 1 million iso and he keep saying it's less than half a killion.

  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bad
    1. You can get a 1-star, like Spidey to 550 with 1508 covers and about 460K ISO, plus a max of 5 roster slots that rotate. There are no other costs.
    2. A new player can generate 500K ISO per week. I’ve been doing that since my first month with my current roster.

    That’s why I’m confident a “new” player can get a 550 in less than a year.

  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,811 Chairperson of the Boards

    I wonder how many newer players will completely stuff their mmr by buying 5* ironman and levelling him and then buy the next one in a few days.

  • DrClever
    DrClever Posts: 584 Critical Contributor

    There's still nothing in the game that tells you doing that sort of thing will screw MMR, so plenty, I guess.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    I hope they do, the 550 MMR needs new blood, very badly.

  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,811 Chairperson of the Boards

    Are people rocking a couple of old one stars at 550 and sitting at the bottom of the scoring the type of new blood you require? Or will they give up after a few months?

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    I don't know, I only hear about PVP climbs being a chore.

  • ArchusMonk
    ArchusMonk Posts: 205 Tile Toppler
    edited September 2023

    @Bad said:

    @ArchusMonk said:

    @bbigler said:
    Eureka! I've got it! The best way to maximize champ rewards with ascending: the Max+Max ascending "tax" only applies in the next tier, NOT the tier you start > @Bad said:

    @bbigler said:
    @Bad @entrailbucket
    You don’t need to pay ISO leveling costs and champ fees in subsequent tiers. When ascending, they start as baby champs. So, you only need to pay for the base tier, everything else is “free”.

    So that means the costs are one of these:
    16 x max level 1-stars
    8 x 2-star champs
    4 x 3-Star champs
    2 x 4-Star champs

    None of those options get near 1 million

    I couldn't ascend psylocke until paying the iso for champing her, like I was saying.
    So ascending 2 4s: 365k iso each one, plus all the 3s.
    1 million iso more or less.
    A lot more than a bit less.

    I’m not sure what “plus all the 3s means”, but if you’re talking about Ascending your 4 Psylocke again, no further ISO is needed because the character produced is already at champion level, so ISO costs are only payed at a characters native level. After that, it’s all covers. If I misunderstood what you were saying, then I apologize.

    This belongs to aconversation where he said any new player could get a 550 1*.
    I told him any no because it cost more than 1 million iso and he keep saying it's less than half a killion.

    It does cost less than half a million ISO because the ONLY time you spend ISO is the initial max leveling. For 1* that’s 28,240 ISO to get to level 50. You have to do that 16 times, so that’s 451,840 ISO. Once you do that, every binding and ascension further up the chain only costs covers because the characters you produce are champions. You level up champions with COVERS, not ISO. If you want to argue that it won’t be quick to obtain 1508 1* COVERS to get to 550, no one will argue with you, but 451,840 ISO doesn’t take that long.

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,434 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2023

    But I thought Ascension was FOR the new players. How many are going to rage quit after not understanding MMR and buying overly high Ascended characters and not being able to understand PVP?

    If one previously needed a college degree before to understand MPQ, adding Ascension is like moving to graduate school.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,820 Chairperson of the Boards

    I don't understand this at all. Why SHOULDN'T a player with a lvl550 character be matched up with other, similar players? If you were a new player, would you enjoy getting repeatedly bashed over the head by players you had no chance to beat? That's what's bad for the game, not forcing players to pick on someone their own size.

    Matchmaking isn't complicated -- it's fair. New players should be protected from us, and we should have to fight each other. PvP is a competition, and if you don't like it, don't play it.

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,434 Chairperson of the Boards

    I think the biggest issue is that MPQ (both with D3 but also BCS) don't every fully lay out what happens as you strengthen up. It is up to the myriad of Forum/Reddit/Discord to help. We (as vets) have figured it out and help each other. But I can't help "Brad from Delaware" who just started last month and is helplessly confused.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,820 Chairperson of the Boards

    @LavaManLee said:
    I think the biggest issue is that MPQ (both with D3 but also BCS) don't every fully lay out what happens as you strengthen up. It is up to the myriad of Forum/Reddit/Discord to help. We (as vets) have figured it out and help each other. But I can't help "Brad from Delaware" who just started last month and is helplessly confused.

    For one, if Brad from Delaware has a character at 550, he didn't just start last month. But again, why SHOULDN'T players of the same level be matched against each other? If he buys a 550, why would he expect to continue beating up 1* players forever?

    Let's flip it around -- I have a competitive 10-year vet's roster, with a big pile of 550s. Should I be able to take 500 points off you in PvP? Would you think that was fair? Or would you complain that I was beating up on weaker players?

    If you expect to be protected from me (and you should -- I want to fight peers, not speed bumps) why shouldn't weaker players be protected from you?

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,434 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2023

    If you think everything is great with the communication that is provided on how to play the game, then nothing I can say can convince you otherwise.

    My belief is that this game has a serious problem with communicating how to play the game and adding Ascension does nothing to help that. Ascension, in my opinion, is going to cause more people to leave than stay.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,820 Chairperson of the Boards

    @LavaManLee said:
    If you think everything is great with the communication that is provided on how to play the game, then nothing I can say can convince you otherwise.

    My belief is that this game has a serious problem with communicating how to play the game and adding Ascension does nothing to help that. Ascension, in my opinion, is going to cause more people to leave than stay.

    There are massive communication problems in this game, and I agree that ascension is complicated and difficult to describe. You were specifically complaining about PvP matchmaking though.

    PvP matchmaking is not difficult to describe OR difficult to communicate. If your guys get stronger, you fight stronger opponents in PvP. That's the only way the game can work.

    If you're arguing that ascension will drive players away because it's complicated -- maybe? If you're arguing that ascension will drive players away because they won't be able to bash noobs in PvP -- maybe, but if so, good.

  • jsmjsmjsm00
    jsmjsmjsm00 Posts: 268 Mover and Shaker

    You get matched against players with similar top end roster to you. What is there to explain? Casual players don't care about the grind and non-casual players can be expected to know that video games match you against similar players to yourself. This idea that we need some sort of detailed explanation on how PvP works is such a manufactured problem.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @LavaManLee said:
    I think the biggest issue is that MPQ (both with D3 but also BCS) don't every fully lay out what happens as you strengthen up. It is up to the myriad of Forum/Reddit/Discord to help. We (as vets) have figured it out and help each other. But I can't help "Brad from Delaware" who just started last month and is helplessly confused.

    For one, if Brad from Delaware has a character at 550, he didn't just start last month. But again, why SHOULDN'T players of the same level be matched against each other? If he buys a 550, why would he expect to continue beating up 1* players forever?

    Let's flip it around -- I have a competitive 10-year vet's roster, with a big pile of 550s. Should I be able to take 500 points off you in PvP? Would you think that was fair? Or would you complain that I was beating up on weaker players?

    If you expect to be protected from me (and you should -- I want to fight peers, not speed bumps) why shouldn't weaker players be protected from you?

    I mean you do take 500 off lower rosters once they're visible to you, but that's neither here nor there.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    In my alliance almost all people are just asking questions and looking things out.
    Because nobody has enough dupes, iso, or hp slots.
    So I don't think this feature was exactly for new players at all, if anything for new players highly informed and highly interested.
    Motivation and interest is what actually differences players in any type of game.
    So I don't think nobody will quit out because of this. I could be wrong of course, people are individually deeper than the ocean.

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