New Feature - Champions 2.0 (Live with R287)

ThaRoadWarrior

Ascendant 1* characters qualify for class of 2023 lol

ArchusMonk

@bbigler said:
Eureka! I've got it! The best way to maximize champ rewards with ascending: the Max+Max ascending "tax" only applies in the next tier, NOT the tier you start > @Bad said:

@bbigler said:
@Bad @entrailbucket
You don’t need to pay ISO leveling costs and champ fees in subsequent tiers. When ascending, they start as baby champs. So, you only need to pay for the base tier, everything else is “free”.

So that means the costs are one of these:
16 x max level 1-stars
8 x 2-star champs
4 x 3-Star champs
2 x 4-Star champs

None of those options get near 1 million

I couldn't ascend psylocke until paying the iso for champing her, like I was saying.
So ascending 2 4s: 365k iso each one, plus all the 3s.
1 million iso more or less.
A lot more than a bit less.

I’m not sure what “plus all the 3s means”, but if you’re talking about Ascending your 4 Psylocke again, no further ISO is needed because the character produced is already at champion level, so ISO costs are only payed at a characters native level. After that, it’s all covers. If I misunderstood what you were saying, then I apologize.

Fatal_Zephyr

I don't want this to appear overly negative as a lot of the changes thus far have been relatively positive, in my opinion (so thank you!). However...

My concern is, and I know that you've got to think of the longevity of the game anyway; that you can effectively screw yourself over by ascending characters..

As has been mentioned in the FAQ and by other players; you can't use a character in rarity locked zones once they've been ascended past that rarity. Whilst it has been stated this won't really be prominent until later in the game, it's kind of already something you need to consider. You can easily ascend some of the characters now, but in doing so, already lock yourself out of some content (DDQ 1* & 2* zones, for example). Whilst I respect it's the players choice whether they ascend a character, I feel this could've been implemented in a way that would avoid any negative impacts in trying to power up your roster and get to play the characters you want to (because, let's face it, it's kinda counter-intuitive to tell us you can play the character we want to whatever the content, but then lock them out of content if they 'over-ascend').

Why not implement a system where you can 'descend' characters (temporarily) back to previously unlocked rarities? Whether that's a daily capped thing (like swapping supports on characters) or not. Or make it automatic, if there's lower rarity content the character would be locked out of due to having been ascended, they are automatically kept at the max, champed level for that required rarity (again, if it's a base/lower rarity than the one they're already at). This would obviously be capped to a character's 'base' rarity, but that's absolutely fine in my eyes (4* Medusa can't be used for 3* and below content).

Not only would we still need more roster slots as I'm all for the ascension prerequisites for each rarity, but it would absolutely mean more incentive to get characters ascended and not be punished in any way for doing so. It's a win-win, I certainly wouldn't hesitate to expand my roster slot more due to this change, but at the moment, I'm not sure I really want to..

entrailbucket

Is that just a problem for the DDQ 1* and 2* fights? Can you cite some specific issues where someone has "locked themselves out" of something?

Fatal_Zephyr

I mean, it's only just rolled out and that's already the immediate issue I can see, but of course there's event content (PVP and PVE) that uses rarity-locks..

They've also stated they will introduce more rarity-locked content in future too.

entrailbucket

@Fatal_Zephyr said:
I mean, it's only just rolled out and that's already the immediate issue I can see, but of course there's event content (PVP and PVE) that uses rarity-locks..

They've also stated they will introduce more rarity-locked content in future too.

PvE and PvP essentials require a character name, not a rarity. So does most of DDQ (I was able to use my 4* IM40 today in one of the fights where IM40 is required).

ArchusMonk

@Fatal_Zephyr said:
I mean, it's only just rolled out and that's already the immediate issue I can see, but of course there's content (PVP and PVE) that uses rarity-locks..

They've also stated they will introduce more rarity-locked content in future too.

The devs have said for PVE that the 2e, 3e, and 4e are actually character locked, not rarity-locked, and ascended characters have already been useable as ascended versions of the essential in lightning rounds, so right now the only place this could affect someone is the 1* DDQ node, 2* DDQ node, and 3* DDQ node.

entrailbucket

The reason they won't ever let you ascend and descend at will is the same reason they won't let you "un-level" guys at will -- it'd be trivial to use that to exploit PvP matchmaking.

Fatal_Zephyr

@ArchusMonk said:

@Fatal_Zephyr said:
I mean, it's only just rolled out and that's already the immediate issue I can see, but of course there's content (PVP and PVE) that uses rarity-locks..

They've also stated they will introduce more rarity-locked content in future too.

The devs have said for PVE that the 2e, 3e, and 4e are actually character locked, not rarity-locked, and ascended characters have already been useable as ascended versions of the essential in lightning rounds, so right now the only place this could affect someone is the 1* DDQ node, 2* DDQ node, and 3* DDQ node.

"Do I need a copy of each rarity of a character?
Need is a strong word, but in the future, it’s quite possible that we’ll have events do things like “Use ANY 4* Black Widow” instead of just Black Widow (Infinity War). Further down the road? Sure, maybe there’ll be an event where you’ll need any Ascended 5-Star or even “Use 5-Star Iron Man (Model 35)”, but I wouldn’t expect that any time soon. It’s unfair to expect players in the near term to change up their overall roster THAT much to where we could assume players would have specific Ascended characters available."

It will be something that will be gradually introduced over time. This feature has literally just rolled out, so of course you're not going to encounter this prominently or have to consider this an incredible amount, but this still goes against my prior point in the reason why they have said they've introduced this feature in the first place and that is to allow players to play the hero they want to.

@entrailbucket said:
The reason they won't ever let you ascend and descend at will is the same reason they won't let you "un-level" guys at will -- it'd be trivial to use that to exploit PvP matchmaking.

Fair point! As I've suggested, it could be more of an automatic thing, like how certain characters are boosted automatically for certain events. So you don't get to exploit this kind of thing.

I'm merely suggesting ways to make the game more progression friendly and so that everyone can still play the way they want to.

entrailbucket

Maybe they'll work out a way to fix it if they ever run a rarity-locked thing that isn't the super easy DDQ fights? I don't think it's really a thing we need to worry about until they do that.

Fatal_Zephyr

@entrailbucket said:
Maybe they'll work out a way to fix it if they ever run a rarity-locked thing that isn't the super easy DDQ fights? I don't think it's really a thing we need to worry about until they do that.

Maybe! Even if the content it effects right now is "super easy", doesn't change the fact that it already has an effect...

Why wait for it to be a bigger issue before 'fixing' it? My suggestion benefits literally everyone and isn't exactly difficult to implement when they already have systems in place that have a similar effect. I won't derail the topic further by harping on about my point though as I feel I've said pretty much all I can at this time. I guess arbitrary limitations in games can be seen as a fun factor by others and not everyone shares my view.

ThaRoadWarrior

5* Medusa didn’t trigger the vault token for today, but unascended ghost rider did. PSA I guess

danielrandkai

so if i have a max leveled america chavez and a second copy but it's a level 303 i'm screwed because the second copy is at 13 covers and not champed?

ThaRoadWarrior

How do you have an unchamped 4* at level 303? Or do you mean cover spread 3/0/3?

Bad

@ArchusMonk said:

@bbigler said:
Eureka! I've got it! The best way to maximize champ rewards with ascending: the Max+Max ascending "tax" only applies in the next tier, NOT the tier you start > @Bad said:

@bbigler said:
@Bad @entrailbucket
You don’t need to pay ISO leveling costs and champ fees in subsequent tiers. When ascending, they start as baby champs. So, you only need to pay for the base tier, everything else is “free”.

So that means the costs are one of these:
16 x max level 1-stars
8 x 2-star champs
4 x 3-Star champs
2 x 4-Star champs

None of those options get near 1 million

I couldn't ascend psylocke until paying the iso for champing her, like I was saying.
So ascending 2 4s: 365k iso each one, plus all the 3s.
1 million iso more or less.
A lot more than a bit less.

I’m not sure what “plus all the 3s means”, but if you’re talking about Ascending your 4 Psylocke again, no further ISO is needed because the character produced is already at champion level, so ISO costs are only payed at a characters native level. After that, it’s all covers. If I misunderstood what you were saying, then I apologize.

This belongs to aconversation where he said any new player could get a 550 1*.
I told him any no because it cost more than 1 million iso and he keep saying it's less than half a killion.

bbigler

@Bad
1. You can get a 1-star, like Spidey to 550 with 1508 covers and about 460K ISO, plus a max of 5 roster slots that rotate. There are no other costs.
2. A new player can generate 500K ISO per week. I’ve been doing that since my first month with my current roster.

That’s why I’m confident a “new” player can get a 550 in less than a year.

DrClever

There's still nothing in the game that tells you doing that sort of thing will screw MMR, so plenty, I guess.

Bowgentle

I hope they do, the 550 MMR needs new blood, very badly.

Bowgentle

I don't know, I only hear about PVP climbs being a chore.

ArchusMonk

@Bad said:

@ArchusMonk said:

@bbigler said:
Eureka! I've got it! The best way to maximize champ rewards with ascending: the Max+Max ascending "tax" only applies in the next tier, NOT the tier you start > @Bad said:

@bbigler said:
@Bad @entrailbucket
You don’t need to pay ISO leveling costs and champ fees in subsequent tiers. When ascending, they start as baby champs. So, you only need to pay for the base tier, everything else is “free”.

So that means the costs are one of these:
16 x max level 1-stars
8 x 2-star champs
4 x 3-Star champs
2 x 4-Star champs

None of those options get near 1 million

I couldn't ascend psylocke until paying the iso for champing her, like I was saying.
So ascending 2 4s: 365k iso each one, plus all the 3s.
1 million iso more or less.
A lot more than a bit less.

I’m not sure what “plus all the 3s means”, but if you’re talking about Ascending your 4 Psylocke again, no further ISO is needed because the character produced is already at champion level, so ISO costs are only payed at a characters native level. After that, it’s all covers. If I misunderstood what you were saying, then I apologize.

This belongs to aconversation where he said any new player could get a 550 1*.
I told him any no because it cost more than 1 million iso and he keep saying it's less than half a killion.

It does cost less than half a million ISO because the ONLY time you spend ISO is the initial max leveling. For 1* that’s 28,240 ISO to get to level 50. You have to do that 16 times, so that’s 451,840 ISO. Once you do that, every binding and ascension further up the chain only costs covers because the characters you produce are champions. You level up champions with COVERS, not ISO. If you want to argue that it won’t be quick to obtain 1508 1* COVERS to get to 550, no one will argue with you, but 451,840 ISO doesn’t take that long.