@Pantera236 said: @entrailbucket said: @Pantera236 said: @Seph1roth5 said: Not sure what the standard buyback method is. Someone mentioned in discord the last time it happened (gambit maybe?) they gave out tokens for guaranteed 5* from the entire pool. So 13 tokens for a champ + 1 per extra level. Now with the much bigger pool I hope they go with something else/better. Best case scenario would be getting 5* shards. Like...making milestones that give out 500 5* shards for each cover sold or something. 5* shards would be absolutely perfect. That way I could take my 476 Chasm to a 450 and have 26 levels to add to someone else. PLEASE DO THIS DEVS! Every time they've done this before it was all or nothing -- sell your character or not. I don't know how they'd implement de-leveling like that, and I wouldn't get your hopes up for it. They could give us the option for instance in my case give me 13 covers for Chasm and then 26 tokens for whatever store they do.
@Pantera236 said:
@entrailbucket said: @Pantera236 said: @Seph1roth5 said: Not sure what the standard buyback method is. Someone mentioned in discord the last time it happened (gambit maybe?) they gave out tokens for guaranteed 5* from the entire pool. So 13 tokens for a champ + 1 per extra level. Now with the much bigger pool I hope they go with something else/better. Best case scenario would be getting 5* shards. Like...making milestones that give out 500 5* shards for each cover sold or something. 5* shards would be absolutely perfect. That way I could take my 476 Chasm to a 450 and have 26 levels to add to someone else. PLEASE DO THIS DEVS! Every time they've done this before it was all or nothing -- sell your character or not. I don't know how they'd implement de-leveling like that, and I wouldn't get your hopes up for it.
@entrailbucket said:
@Pantera236 said: @Seph1roth5 said: Not sure what the standard buyback method is. Someone mentioned in discord the last time it happened (gambit maybe?) they gave out tokens for guaranteed 5* from the entire pool. So 13 tokens for a champ + 1 per extra level. Now with the much bigger pool I hope they go with something else/better. Best case scenario would be getting 5* shards. Like...making milestones that give out 500 5* shards for each cover sold or something. 5* shards would be absolutely perfect. That way I could take my 476 Chasm to a 450 and have 26 levels to add to someone else. PLEASE DO THIS DEVS!
@Seph1roth5 said: Not sure what the standard buyback method is. Someone mentioned in discord the last time it happened (gambit maybe?) they gave out tokens for guaranteed 5* from the entire pool. So 13 tokens for a champ + 1 per extra level. Now with the much bigger pool I hope they go with something else/better. Best case scenario would be getting 5* shards. Like...making milestones that give out 500 5* shards for each cover sold or something.
@Seph1roth5 said: Not sure what the standard buyback method is. Someone mentioned in discord the last time it happened (gambit maybe?) they gave out tokens for guaranteed 5* from the entire pool. So 13 tokens for a champ + 1 per extra level.
Now with the much bigger pool I hope they go with something else/better. Best case scenario would be getting 5* shards. Like...making milestones that give out 500 5* shards for each cover sold or something.
5* shards would be absolutely perfect. That way I could take my 476 Chasm to a 450 and have 26 levels to add to someone else. PLEASE DO THIS DEVS!
Every time they've done this before it was all or nothing -- sell your character or not. I don't know how they'd implement de-leveling like that, and I wouldn't get your hopes up for it.
They could give us the option for instance in my case give me 13 covers for Chasm and then 26 tokens for whatever store they do.
There is zero chance this will happen in-game. If you've spent enough, customer service might do it for you, but you'd probably know by now if you're a member of the concierge-service tier.
@BriMan2222 said: @Pantera236 said: @BriMan2222 said: @Pantera236 said: @BriMan2222 said: @Pantera236 said: @Anon said: He was, but when they began releasing 5* characters (Onslaught and Apocalypse) to counter a 4*, there was an issue. Apoc was Bishops best partner and not sure how Onslaught is a counter to Bishop. If there was a match 4 to start the match it pretty much insta killed bishop. Apoc + onslaught worked against him because if onslaught didn't kill him turn 1, apoc had stun immunity being paired with onslaught. Match damage back then wasn't that high, there was no Colossus or Chasm. You know what onslaught does when he gets a match 4 or 5 right? Its not the match damage, it's the damage from every team up tile that gets blown up. Well aware of what Onslaught does. After they nerfed Bishop, Apoc Onslaught was my A team for a year. You know how high most people had Onslaught at that time? Most not even champed because lots of people started hoarding. Even my now level 504 Onslaught might not take out a 370 Bishop in one turn. My onslaught was baby champed at the time, yes he took out bishop in one shot on most match 4's unless there was very little team up ap on the board.
@BriMan2222 said:
@Pantera236 said: @BriMan2222 said: @Pantera236 said: @BriMan2222 said: @Pantera236 said: @Anon said: He was, but when they began releasing 5* characters (Onslaught and Apocalypse) to counter a 4*, there was an issue. Apoc was Bishops best partner and not sure how Onslaught is a counter to Bishop. If there was a match 4 to start the match it pretty much insta killed bishop. Apoc + onslaught worked against him because if onslaught didn't kill him turn 1, apoc had stun immunity being paired with onslaught. Match damage back then wasn't that high, there was no Colossus or Chasm. You know what onslaught does when he gets a match 4 or 5 right? Its not the match damage, it's the damage from every team up tile that gets blown up. Well aware of what Onslaught does. After they nerfed Bishop, Apoc Onslaught was my A team for a year. You know how high most people had Onslaught at that time? Most not even champed because lots of people started hoarding. Even my now level 504 Onslaught might not take out a 370 Bishop in one turn.
@BriMan2222 said: @Pantera236 said: @BriMan2222 said: @Pantera236 said: @Anon said: He was, but when they began releasing 5* characters (Onslaught and Apocalypse) to counter a 4*, there was an issue. Apoc was Bishops best partner and not sure how Onslaught is a counter to Bishop. If there was a match 4 to start the match it pretty much insta killed bishop. Apoc + onslaught worked against him because if onslaught didn't kill him turn 1, apoc had stun immunity being paired with onslaught. Match damage back then wasn't that high, there was no Colossus or Chasm. You know what onslaught does when he gets a match 4 or 5 right? Its not the match damage, it's the damage from every team up tile that gets blown up.
@Pantera236 said: @BriMan2222 said: @Pantera236 said: @Anon said: He was, but when they began releasing 5* characters (Onslaught and Apocalypse) to counter a 4*, there was an issue. Apoc was Bishops best partner and not sure how Onslaught is a counter to Bishop. If there was a match 4 to start the match it pretty much insta killed bishop. Apoc + onslaught worked against him because if onslaught didn't kill him turn 1, apoc had stun immunity being paired with onslaught. Match damage back then wasn't that high, there was no Colossus or Chasm.
@BriMan2222 said: @Pantera236 said: @Anon said: He was, but when they began releasing 5* characters (Onslaught and Apocalypse) to counter a 4*, there was an issue. Apoc was Bishops best partner and not sure how Onslaught is a counter to Bishop. If there was a match 4 to start the match it pretty much insta killed bishop. Apoc + onslaught worked against him because if onslaught didn't kill him turn 1, apoc had stun immunity being paired with onslaught.
@Pantera236 said: @Anon said: He was, but when they began releasing 5* characters (Onslaught and Apocalypse) to counter a 4*, there was an issue. Apoc was Bishops best partner and not sure how Onslaught is a counter to Bishop.
@Anon said: He was, but when they began releasing 5* characters (Onslaught and Apocalypse) to counter a 4*, there was an issue.
Apoc was Bishops best partner and not sure how Onslaught is a counter to Bishop.
If there was a match 4 to start the match it pretty much insta killed bishop. Apoc + onslaught worked against him because if onslaught didn't kill him turn 1, apoc had stun immunity being paired with onslaught.
Match damage back then wasn't that high, there was no Colossus or Chasm.
You know what onslaught does when he gets a match 4 or 5 right? Its not the match damage, it's the damage from every team up tile that gets blown up.
Well aware of what Onslaught does. After they nerfed Bishop, Apoc Onslaught was my A team for a year. You know how high most people had Onslaught at that time? Most not even champed because lots of people started hoarding. Even my now level 504 Onslaught might not take out a 370 Bishop in one turn.
My onslaught was baby champed at the time, yes he took out bishop in one shot on most match 4's unless there was very little team up ap on the board.
Sweet! I don't remember getting that many reds at that time. Plus you're also talking about taking on mine. I could smash people with it and usually just needed 1 health pack per red I gave out.
@Daredevil217 said: @entrailbucket said: Stealing the first turn just violates the general design direction of the game, imo. I've had games where I lost without being able to move the board at all (a cascade against 550 Chasm/Hulk/Colossus in sim) and that should never happen. It takes away player agency. I also don't think they ever intended that power to stop all the first-turn passives, and currently it invalidates way too much stuff -- powers of all different types. Look at Elektra's passive, and how much worse that is than Chasm just shutting everything down. Uhhh… no. It was absolutely intended. “His Purple Passive ‘Empty Inside’ halts start-of-match passives dead in their tracks, stopping early board setup plays like 4* Rocket and Groot or 5* Beta Ray Bill cold.” https://d3go.com/marvel-puzzle-quest-new-character-blog-chasm-ben-reilly/ If you want your first turn so bad, you have options. Play Moon Knight, Surfer, Apoc/Mutant or your own Chasm. Paper beats rocks and all that. I’m one of the few that think this is a fair nerf on paper. Will have to see it in practice. I was going to post a poll myself, so glad someone did it. It’ll be interesting to see if people change their minds (myself included) once this goes live.
@Daredevil217 said:
@entrailbucket said: Stealing the first turn just violates the general design direction of the game, imo. I've had games where I lost without being able to move the board at all (a cascade against 550 Chasm/Hulk/Colossus in sim) and that should never happen. It takes away player agency. I also don't think they ever intended that power to stop all the first-turn passives, and currently it invalidates way too much stuff -- powers of all different types. Look at Elektra's passive, and how much worse that is than Chasm just shutting everything down.
@entrailbucket said: Stealing the first turn just violates the general design direction of the game, imo. I've had games where I lost without being able to move the board at all (a cascade against 550 Chasm/Hulk/Colossus in sim) and that should never happen. It takes away player agency.
I also don't think they ever intended that power to stop all the first-turn passives, and currently it invalidates way too much stuff -- powers of all different types. Look at Elektra's passive, and how much worse that is than Chasm just shutting everything down.
Uhhh… no. It was absolutely intended.
“His Purple Passive ‘Empty Inside’ halts start-of-match passives dead in their tracks, stopping early board setup plays like 4* Rocket and Groot or 5* Beta Ray Bill cold.”
https://d3go.com/marvel-puzzle-quest-new-character-blog-chasm-ben-reilly/
If you want your first turn so bad, you have options. Play Moon Knight, Surfer, Apoc/Mutant or your own Chasm. Paper beats rocks and all that.
I’m one of the few that think this is a fair nerf on paper. Will have to see it in practice. I was going to post a poll myself, so glad someone did it. It’ll be interesting to see if people change their minds (myself included) once this goes live.
I mean...maybe my experience is different here? I don't think I should be able to lose the game without getting a turn. Against 550s, using 550s, that was a thing that happened, and it wasn't that rare. It's not that I want my first turn "so bad," it's that... y'know...I feel like I should get a turn.
Reducing Chasm's frankly insane match damage boost helps there, but it doesn't stop it completely.
And yes, I can counter it by bringing some stunproof guy, to be the rock to Chasm's scissors, and have a chance, but what is that power bad against when Chasm is on offense? Boosted BP can make him pay somewhat, but that's about it.
@BlackBoltRocks said: This does mean he's no longer such a good partner for Gwenom, so the latter drops further in viability. Devs please buff Gwen! Zero match damage is just laughable.
As her best use is as Chasm counter it might not matter so much that he now gives fewer web tiles, but yeah, now there's not such an advantage in hiding at the back to avoid AP drain maybe the zero match damage thing could be revisited.
This has landed with a relative whimper. Are all the pitchforks deployed elsewhere?
He kept the first turn stun which is what made him truly unique so everything else will have to just wait for when it hits to see if he is now useless. Meanwhile Mighty Thor and Shang are all "We are still here, use us, ussssssssssssse ussssssssssss!"
I think after Bill and Apoc week, and entering ColWanda week, we've mostly forgotten about him.
as someone for whom his playstyle has never been appealing, I won't miss him if he drops out of regular use. I think this character concept was an absolute joykiller on both offense and defense. Just my opinion, others mileage may vary.
Yes, he sucks to play with and against. I'm a little with bucket here, with how long this took they could have completely reworked.
@Bowgentle said: Yes, he sucks to play with and against. I'm a little with bucket here, with how long this took they could have completely reworked.
I suspect that it won't matter, though. Like...I personally think they missed an opportunity to do something cool here, but that's ok. Chasm does all the same stuff now, he just does all that stuff worse.
My bold prediction? I have a feeling a lot of people will sell Chasm, and the ones that don't won't use him very much. His gameplay was never fun, in the way that someone like Shang-Chi is fun. Everybody used Chasm because he was really powerful, and they were willing to trade fun for winning (or maybe winning was fun!).
That's why I think they missed an opportunity to rework him further -- now that he's not the most powerful, he's still not very fun, so why would I choose him?
They might revisit down the line, like Gambit. I'm definitely not selling.
@Bowgentle said: They might revisit down the line, like Gambit. I'm definitely not selling.
I'm not selling anybody ever. "Everyone to 550" is the goal, and that means everyone.
@entrailbucket said: @Bowgentle said: Yes, he sucks to play with and against. I'm a little with bucket here, with how long this took they could have completely reworked. I suspect that it won't matter, though. Like...I personally think they missed an opportunity to do something cool here, but that's ok. Chasm does all the same stuff now, he just does all that stuff worse. My bold prediction? I have a feeling a lot of people will sell Chasm, and the ones that don't won't use him very much. His gameplay was never fun, in the way that someone like Shang-Chi is fun. Everybody used Chasm because he was really powerful, and they were willing to trade fun for winning (or maybe winning was fun!). That's why I think they missed an opportunity to rework him further -- now that he's not the most powerful, he's still not very fun, so why would I choose him?
I agree with this. My Chasm is 501 -- I have 9 characters above 500, none at 550 since I'd rather play with boosted characters than the same ones all the time. I generally only play him in the Lightning Rounds, since it's suicide to play anyone else there. He is no fun at all to play, and mirror matches are actively torture unless you really know what you're doing and have good timing.
Far from pitchforks, I'm throwing a parade. This nerf has been a long time coming and is very welcome to a large segment of the gaming population. It's been better since we've had more boosted 5*s (the first few weeks of the lead up to the anniversary was bad,) but he's still very common in PVP.
Chasm is an issue? I must have missed someone mentioning it on the forums.
Rework looks fine, still doesn’t look fun, so will carry on ignoring him.
Personally, I’m glad he’s being shaved down. As it is, we have too many characters that have to be killed last because they revive easily. As it is, the S.H.I.E.L.D. Simulator game is getting too crowded at the top as they just use Chasm, IHulk, and She-Hulk or Moondragon. It’s making it way too hard to get to the top when you have a virtually immortal team. I don’t know how others feel, but I just lose interest.
Good Nerf. Doesn’t totally cripple him, but tones down the parts that were most oppressive. I’m not 100% if this nerf is enough for his suffocating AP drain, since with Abyss tiles as part of your match, his AP drain can still outpace how much you gain each turn.
With few exceptions, AP is the lifeblood of any successful team; and like Hood in the past he who controls the AP, controls the world.
I suspect the people who didn’t have a problem with Chasm will barely notice a change. The rest of us will see things go better, but he may still be less fun to fight than skip.
I'm surprised and disappointed that they changed his match damage. Of all the reasons that he sucked the fun out of PvP, I never thought this was one of them. But it was in fact one of the elements that made him good in PvE, and that is now compromised.
I feel like they could have softened the blow to the Chasm players out there if they left his PvE skills intact, while nerfing the parts that so negatively impacted PvP.
It's just bizarre to see his match damage nerfed in a world that still has Shang Chi.
@The_Boi_of_Steel said: Personally, I’m glad he’s being shaved down. As it is, we have too many characters that have to be killed last because they revive easily. As it is, the S.H.I.E.L.D. Simulator game is getting too crowded at the top as they just use Chasm, IHulk, and She-Hulk or Moondragon. It’s making it way too hard to get to the top when you have a virtually immortal team. I don’t know how others feel, but I just lose interest.
Yes, Shield sim used to be the place where I would just mess around with fun teams and try out teams people have recommended on the forum until I hit wins progression. I've completely given up playing shield sim for the past several months as it has become chasm and friends for almost every team as soon as I join the event and I can't beat them with "fun" teams and rewards aren't worth grinding so many terribly unfun battles.
@froggerjohn said: I'm surprised and disappointed that they changed his match damage. Of all the reasons that he sucked the fun out of PvP, I never thought this was one of them. But it was in fact one of the elements that made him good in PvE, and that is now compromised. I feel like they could have softened the blow to the Chasm players out there if they left his PvE skills intact, while nerfing the parts that so negatively impacted PvP. It's just bizarre to see his match damage nerfed in a world that still has Shang Chi.
@froggerjohn said: I'm surprised and disappointed that they changed his match damage. Of all the reasons that he sucked the fun out of PvP, I never thought this was one of them. But it was in fact one of the elements that made him good in PvE, and that is now compromised.
Just guessing but maybe it’s because that match damage was available on turn 1 while you have to build up to SC’s match damage which usually takes at least a couple rounds depending on board luck.
@Kolence said: @revskip said: Seems reasonable. Glad he wasn't ground into dust. Now when is the nerf coming for Shang-Chi and mThor? Don't forget Kang!
@Kolence said:
@revskip said: Seems reasonable. Glad he wasn't ground into dust. Now when is the nerf coming for Shang-Chi and mThor?
Don't forget Kang!
Do these guys need a nerf? They are all powerful offensively, but any player can defeat an AI controlling these characters.
@Jacklag said: @Kolence said: @revskip said: Seems reasonable. Glad he wasn't ground into dust. Now when is the nerf coming for Shang-Chi and mThor? Don't forget Kang! Do these guys need a nerf? They are all powerful offensively, but any player can defeat an AI controlling these characters.
@Jacklag said:
In general, the consensus around here and in the rest of the community is that characters should never be nerfed because of their performance on offense -- nerfs should only happen because somebody is too good on defense.
I disagree with this (I did a whole thread on it -- who remembers One Punch Guy!?!) but I've accepted that I'm in a tiny minority.