Seems like he will likely be extremely niche after the nerf.
He drains much less ap AND does less match damage as ap pools rise. He revives with less health and makes fewer web tiles too. So he won't be doing much for the team beyond his stun mechanic. That is a unique and powerful ability. So I can see someone trying to design around it.
But the returns of doing so are quite literally diminishing since his revive threshold goes up each time. Maybe he will still be good at flooding the board with abyss tiles, but I still can't see more than 3 or 4 revives per match being reliable. Is that enough when fighting 550+ opponents?
I feel like the ap drain was the biggest pain against him. For example, electro/Colossus was great as it meant he was draining unusable yellow.
Will be interesting in practice, and considering he can't revive forever, should be easy takedown
I consider this an unnecessary and extremely disruptive nerf. They shouldn't be nerfing anyone, ever, at this point, other than in the most egregious situations (Bishop). And they certainly should not be doing it to a character that's been out for more than a year. There are plenty of ways to deal with Chasm through characters -- there's no need for this kind of castration.
I reckon this will remain a hot topic, and I'd be curious to see peoples thoughts as data. If you have a moment, could you please check this poll from the character section?
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/89093/chasm-nerf-poll
@Punisher5784 said: The changes look fair. They have charged his first turn stun to be a percentage (50% at 3 covers; 75% at 4; 100% at 5), but I agree it's the most unique ability.
Not seeing this change...I see a 100% chance of stun the first turn of every match. Where did you see this?
Well, he wasn't nerfed 6 feet into the ground like Gambit or Bishop, but there's still a bitter taste in my mouth despite hardly ever using a champed Chasm.
@Yepyep said: I consider this an unnecessary and extremely disruptive nerf. They shouldn't be nerf in anyone, ever, at this point, other than in the most egregious situations (Bishop). And they certainly should not be doing it to a character that's been out for more than a year. There are plenty of ways to deal with Chasm through characters -- there's no need for this kind of castration.
Bishop was out for almost 2 years before they nerfed him, and I think he was easier to deal with than chasm.
He was, but when they began releasing 5* characters (Onslaught and Apocalypse) to counter a 4*, there was an issue.
Not sure what the standard buyback method is. Someone mentioned in discord the last time it happened (gambit maybe?) they gave out tokens for guaranteed 5* from the entire pool. So 13 tokens for a champ + 1 per extra level.
Now with the much bigger pool I hope they go with something else/better. Best case scenario would be getting 5* shards. Like...making milestones that give out 500 5* shards for each cover sold or something.
@Anon said: He was, but when they began releasing 5* characters (Onslaught and Apocalypse) to counter a 4*, there was an issue.
Apoc was Bishops best partner and not sure how Onslaught is a counter to Bishop.
@Pantera236 said: @Anon said: He was, but when they began releasing 5* characters (Onslaught and Apocalypse) to counter a 4*, there was an issue. Apoc was Bishops best partner and not sure how Onslaught is a counter to Bishop.
@Pantera236 said:
If there was a match 4 to start the match it pretty much insta killed bishop. Apoc + onslaught worked against him because if onslaught didn't kill him turn 1, apoc had stun immunity being paired with onslaught.
@Seph1roth5 said: Not sure what the standard buyback method is. Someone mentioned in discord the last time it happened (gambit maybe?) they gave out tokens for guaranteed 5* from the entire pool. So 13 tokens for a champ + 1 per extra level. Now with the much bigger pool I hope they go with something else/better. Best case scenario would be getting 5* shards. Like...making milestones that give out 500 5* shards for each cover sold or something.
@Seph1roth5 said: Not sure what the standard buyback method is. Someone mentioned in discord the last time it happened (gambit maybe?) they gave out tokens for guaranteed 5* from the entire pool. So 13 tokens for a champ + 1 per extra level.
5* shards would be absolutely perfect. That way I could take my 476 Chasm to a 450 and have 26 levels to add to someone else. PLEASE DO THIS DEVS!
@Pantera236 said: @Seph1roth5 said: Not sure what the standard buyback method is. Someone mentioned in discord the last time it happened (gambit maybe?) they gave out tokens for guaranteed 5* from the entire pool. So 13 tokens for a champ + 1 per extra level. Now with the much bigger pool I hope they go with something else/better. Best case scenario would be getting 5* shards. Like...making milestones that give out 500 5* shards for each cover sold or something. 5* shards would be absolutely perfect. That way I could take my 476 Chasm to a 450 and have 26 levels to add to someone else. PLEASE DO THIS DEVS!
Every time they've done this before it was all or nothing -- sell your character or not. I don't know how they'd implement de-leveling like that, and I wouldn't get your hopes up for it.
@entrailbucket said: @Pantera236 said: @Seph1roth5 said: Not sure what the standard buyback method is. Someone mentioned in discord the last time it happened (gambit maybe?) they gave out tokens for guaranteed 5* from the entire pool. So 13 tokens for a champ + 1 per extra level. Now with the much bigger pool I hope they go with something else/better. Best case scenario would be getting 5* shards. Like...making milestones that give out 500 5* shards for each cover sold or something. 5* shards would be absolutely perfect. That way I could take my 476 Chasm to a 450 and have 26 levels to add to someone else. PLEASE DO THIS DEVS! Every time they've done this before it was all or nothing -- sell your character or not. I don't know how they'd implement de-leveling like that, and I wouldn't get your hopes up for it.
@entrailbucket said:
They could give us the option for instance in my case give me 13 covers for Chasm and then 26 tokens for whatever store they do.
@BriMan2222 said: @Pantera236 said: @Anon said: He was, but when they began releasing 5* characters (Onslaught and Apocalypse) to counter a 4*, there was an issue. Apoc was Bishops best partner and not sure how Onslaught is a counter to Bishop. If there was a match 4 to start the match it pretty much insta killed bishop. Apoc + onslaught worked against him because if onslaught didn't kill him turn 1, apoc had stun immunity being paired with onslaught.
@BriMan2222 said:
Match damage back then wasn't that high, there was no Colossus or Chasm.
@Pantera236 said: @BriMan2222 said: @Pantera236 said: @Anon said: He was, but when they began releasing 5* characters (Onslaught and Apocalypse) to counter a 4*, there was an issue. Apoc was Bishops best partner and not sure how Onslaught is a counter to Bishop. If there was a match 4 to start the match it pretty much insta killed bishop. Apoc + onslaught worked against him because if onslaught didn't kill him turn 1, apoc had stun immunity being paired with onslaught. Match damage back then wasn't that high, there was no Colossus or Chasm.
You know what onslaught does when he gets a match 4 or 5 right? Its not the match damage, it's the damage from every team up tile that gets blown up.
@BriMan2222 said: @Pantera236 said: @BriMan2222 said: @Pantera236 said: @Anon said: He was, but when they began releasing 5* characters (Onslaught and Apocalypse) to counter a 4*, there was an issue. Apoc was Bishops best partner and not sure how Onslaught is a counter to Bishop. If there was a match 4 to start the match it pretty much insta killed bishop. Apoc + onslaught worked against him because if onslaught didn't kill him turn 1, apoc had stun immunity being paired with onslaught. Match damage back then wasn't that high, there was no Colossus or Chasm. You know what onslaught does when he gets a match 4 or 5 right? Its not the match damage, it's the damage from every team up tile that gets blown up.
Well aware of what Onslaught does. After they nerfed Bishop, Apoc Onslaught was my A team for a year. You know how high most people had Onslaught at that time? Most not even champed because lots of people started hoarding. Even my now level 504 Onslaught might not take out a 370 Bishop in one turn.
@entrailbucket said: Stealing the first turn just violates the general design direction of the game, imo. I've had games where I lost without being able to move the board at all (a cascade against 550 Chasm/Hulk/Colossus in sim) and that should never happen. It takes away player agency. I also don't think they ever intended that power to stop all the first-turn passives, and currently it invalidates way too much stuff -- powers of all different types. Look at Elektra's passive, and how much worse that is than Chasm just shutting everything down.
@entrailbucket said: Stealing the first turn just violates the general design direction of the game, imo. I've had games where I lost without being able to move the board at all (a cascade against 550 Chasm/Hulk/Colossus in sim) and that should never happen. It takes away player agency.
I also don't think they ever intended that power to stop all the first-turn passives, and currently it invalidates way too much stuff -- powers of all different types. Look at Elektra's passive, and how much worse that is than Chasm just shutting everything down.
Uhhh… no. It was absolutely intended.
“His Purple Passive ‘Empty Inside’ halts start-of-match passives dead in their tracks, stopping early board setup plays like 4* Rocket and Groot or 5* Beta Ray Bill cold.”
https://d3go.com/marvel-puzzle-quest-new-character-blog-chasm-ben-reilly/
If you want your first turn so bad, you have options. Play Moon Knight, Surfer, Apoc/Mutant or your own Chasm. Paper beats rocks and all that.
I’m one of the few that think this is a fair nerf on paper. Will have to see it in practice. I was going to post a poll myself, so glad someone did it. It’ll be interesting to see if people change their minds (myself included) once this goes live.
@Pantera236 said: @BriMan2222 said: @Pantera236 said: @BriMan2222 said: @Pantera236 said: @Anon said: He was, but when they began releasing 5* characters (Onslaught and Apocalypse) to counter a 4*, there was an issue. Apoc was Bishops best partner and not sure how Onslaught is a counter to Bishop. If there was a match 4 to start the match it pretty much insta killed bishop. Apoc + onslaught worked against him because if onslaught didn't kill him turn 1, apoc had stun immunity being paired with onslaught. Match damage back then wasn't that high, there was no Colossus or Chasm. You know what onslaught does when he gets a match 4 or 5 right? Its not the match damage, it's the damage from every team up tile that gets blown up. Well aware of what Onslaught does. After they nerfed Bishop, Apoc Onslaught was my A team for a year. You know how high most people had Onslaught at that time? Most not even champed because lots of people started hoarding. Even my now level 504 Onslaught might not take out a 370 Bishop in one turn.
My onslaught was baby champed at the time, yes he took out bishop in one shot on most match 4's unless there was very little team up ap on the board.
The nerf to the drain (random vs targeted) would be enough for me. Maxing the drain at 2 plus making him no longer truly immortal really takes him down a notch.
About time.