Is the current LT pool worth champing?

dianetics

@GrimSkald said:
I'm seeing a problem with Gwen's red and black - she's not very good at generating her own web tiles. She needs to tank and/or spend purple to get any at all, and even at her best she's only generating a handful -- what's more special tile generators shut down her purple extremely effectively.
Unfortunately other than Chasm, who is an extremely bad partner for anyone who uses AP for their powers, there are no good web tile generators in the 5* tier. So I think while her red and black look decent on paper, in practice they're going to be not that effective unless you have both a good web tile generator and a booster, which is a pretty tall ask...

You might be right, or are probably right.

But, her red is going to be nasty. Without a doubt, it is so good people will find a way to use it. Gwenom is classified as a hero...take with that what you will. She has the best affiliations...Spider-verse, hero, multiversal, symbiote, and enhanced.

I don't think this is a character you want to pass on.

entrailbucket

I think OP was just asking if these guys were worth covering, not if they were worth maxing out.

However, I think a 550 High Evolutionary on the opposing team would be a really unpleasant thing to fight. I haven't seen one of these in the wild yet.

Vhailorx

@dianetics said:

@GrimSkald said:
I'm seeing a problem with Gwen's red and black - she's not very good at generating her own web tiles. She needs to tank and/or spend purple to get any at all, and even at her best she's only generating a handful -- what's more special tile generators shut down her purple extremely effectively.
Unfortunately other than Chasm, who is an extremely bad partner for anyone who uses AP for their powers, there are no good web tile generators in the 5* tier. So I think while her red and black look decent on paper, in practice they're going to be not that effective unless you have both a good web tile generator and a booster, which is a pretty tall ask...

You might be right, or are probably right.

But, her red is going to be nasty. Without a doubt, it is so good people will find a way to use it. Gwenom is classified as a hero...take with that what you will. She has the best affiliations...Spider-verse, hero, multiversal, symbiote, and enhanced.

I don't think this is a character you want to pass on.

Have to say I am not really seeing it with gwenom red on paper. It's 10ap AND requires 6-8 web tiles to really get going on damage. That's a pretty high bar to clear relative to something like apoc red that will give you multiple ticks of damage for just 7ap and comes with a built-in damage boost, or ihulk that will give you 3 passive ticks of damage for 0ap.

This game is ~10 years old and there have been many, many 10+ ap powers that promised massive damage (for their era) if conditions X, Y, and Z are met (e.g., antman blue/purple, flapping red, im46 red, BW's whole kit, ppsm green, sinister blue, heimdall red, original 5* magneto blue, etc). Those powers basically always lose out to cheap/passive, simple, fast powers that deal a little less max damage with much less hassle.

HEvo at least has the promise of generating ap passively and playing up in terms of health/sustainability. Gwenom and Jeff both look pretty meh to me on paper in that the difficulty of leveraging their strengths seems like it will make them very niche at best. But I have literally never used any of them in game, so I wanted to see if those with more experience have formed a different opinion.

Scofie

@Vhailorx said:

@Scofie said:
Regardless of characters, I guess if you're not playing too much for a little while, it's unlikely you'll champ the ones after either.

But you might play more, and so you'd have lost the ability to champ existing LL but have a hoard built for future unknown characters.

At the risk of being boring, why not write down some scenarios with different variables about pulling or not, how long the play reduction might last, quality of future releases etc and then work out which is your preferred tree based on the end results?

That's what I'm doing! But "current LT pool value" is an unsolved variable in my decision tree. I am trying to remedy that information gap with this thread. . .

Ha! Yes, when you say it like that....

Hangs head in shame

dianetics

@Vhailorx said:
This game is ~10 years old and there have been many, many 10+ ap powers that promised massive damage (for their era) if conditions X, Y, and Z are met (e.g., antman blue/purple, flapping red, im46 red, BW's whole kit, ppsm green, sinister blue, heimdall red, original 5* magneto blue, etc). Those powers basically always lose out to cheap/passive, simple, fast powers that deal a little less max damage with much less hassle.

HEvo at least has the promise of generating ap passively and playing up in terms of health/sustainability. Gwenom and Jeff both look pretty meh to me on paper in that the difficulty of leveraging their strengths seems like it will make them very niche at best. But I have literally never used any of them in game, so I wanted to see if those with more experience have formed a different opinion.

I will say again... you are probably right.
I will give pause at Heimdall, because his red does real work. I used him to jump to the 5* tier and his red is legit, and terrifying when boosted. Noteworthy I would be pushing 40k+ reds for 3 AP almost every node (thanks Dark Beast).

She has a lot of issues which I did already mention in her thread...but her red could...

Put her with Kang and Apoc with some team ups. I bet something special will happen there.

DyingLegend

I have High Evo and Jeffrey done. So I'm done pulling.

I think High Evo is sneaky good. Just my opinion.

Debating on passing on Gwen and Dino. Haven't used there kits enough.

Vhailorx

@dianetics said:

@Vhailorx said:
This game is ~10 years old and there have been many, many 10+ ap powers that promised massive damage (for their era) if conditions X, Y, and Z are met (e.g., antman blue/purple, flapping red, im46 red, BW's whole kit, ppsm green, sinister blue, heimdall red, original 5* magneto blue, etc). Those powers basically always lose out to cheap/passive, simple, fast powers that deal a little less max damage with much less hassle.

HEvo at least has the promise of generating ap passively and playing up in terms of health/sustainability. Gwenom and Jeff both look pretty meh to me on paper in that the difficulty of leveraging their strengths seems like it will make them very niche at best. But I have literally never used any of them in game, so I wanted to see if those with more experience have formed a different opinion.

I will say again... you are probably right.
I will give pause at Heimdall, because his red does real work. I used him to jump to the 5* tier and his red is legit, and terrifying when boosted. Noteworthy I would be pushing 40k+ reds for 3 AP almost every node (thanks Dark Beast).

She has a lot of issues which I did already mention in her thread...but her red could...

Put her with Kang and Apoc with some team ups. I bet something special will happen there.

I have always been higher on heimdall than the consensus. But at this point it seems unlikely that the perfect partner will ever come along for him. And without help he is too slow and fiddly to be meta, even though his red is awesome if you can get it down to 3 or 4 ap.

entrailbucket

I think there's a team that can exploit Gwen's red, but it might not exist (yet?). The difference between her and some of those other guys is that her payoff is actually worth it -- Heimdall, for example, is a bunch of work to get one high-damage hit. Gwen's payoff is an insta-win.

Anyway, I haven't put much time into figuring it out, because speed clearing PvE isn't something I care about. If it exists, it looks like Gwen + booster (Okoye?) + web generator or red/purple/yellow accelerator. You'd need supports to generate some AP for you to go fast enough.

I don't know if this would be faster than the Apocalypse or Okoye teams people use now, but in theory it would deal more damage in roughly the same time.

Vhailorx

@entrailbucket said:
I think there's a team that can exploit Gwen's red, but it might not exist (yet?). The difference between her and some of those other guys is that her payoff is actually worth it -- Heimdall, for example, is a bunch of work to get one high-damage hit. Gwen's payoff is an insta-win.

Anyway, I haven't put much time into figuring it out, because speed clearing PvE isn't something I care about. If it exists, it looks like Gwen + booster (Okoye?) + web generator or red/purple/yellow accelerator. You'd need supports to generate some AP for you to go fast enough.

I don't know if this would be faster than the Apocalypse or Okoye teams people use now, but in theory it would deal more damage in roughly the same time.

I think Emma would be the play over okoye for speed, since gwenom's base damage is high enough to benefit from +70% and it won't require any tu collection. So gwenom + web generator + Emma + red-generating support?

Ideally you would get 9 hits x ~16k damager per hit at lvl450, right? (With 8+ web tiles and 15+ total ap). Assuming gwenom's own passive stacks with emma's. That would be ~250k damage unless my math is way off.

entrailbucket

Gwen's purple can generate some webs too, if you run her 535 and cast it early enough in the fight, before anybody puts stuff on the board (I think the taco support can produce purple and red AP?)

I dunno, I think there's something there -- it's a little complicated, but the payoff is "you instantly win" and it's probably (?) the least complicated "you instantly win" against high health PvE fights.

I just can't quite put all the pieces together.

Vhailorx

@entrailbucket said:
Gwen's purple can generate some webs too, if you run her 535 and cast it early enough in the fight, before anybody puts stuff on the board (I think the taco support can produce purple and red AP?)

I dunno, I think there's something there -- it's a little complicated, but the payoff is "you instantly win" and it's probably (?) the least complicated "you instantly win" against high health PvE fights.

I just can't quite put all the pieces together.

At 5/3/5 her purple would generate 9 webs on a blank board. So maybe
Gwenon + Emma + okoye, with a +purple and +red support, then max boost purple and red. If both supports proc then you can insta-cast purple-->red in round one (if there is a +6 red ap support) .

I think that would be several hundred thousand damage, but not enough to one shot a challenge node or team of 550s, right?

entrailbucket

At that point it'd depend on Gwen and/or Okoye's levels, and how much TU you had, since Emma doesn't scale.

The folks oneshotting PvE fights with Apocalypse teams are running him at very high level -- I don't think you can do it with a 450 Apocalypse.

killahKlown

Skip Jeff. Wait for dino, he's way better

KGB

@entrailbucket said:
I dunno, I think there's something there -- it's a little complicated, but the payoff is "you instantly win" and it's probably (?) the least complicated "you instantly win" against high health PvE fights.

The Away Team / Blue Man Group (Hawkeye, IM40, Kang + supports) says 'Don't forget about me' winning on turn 3.

KGB

entrailbucket

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:
I dunno, I think there's something there -- it's a little complicated, but the payoff is "you instantly win" and it's probably (?) the least complicated "you instantly win" against high health PvE fights.

The Away Team / Blue Man Group (Hawkeye, IM40, Kang + supports) says 'Don't forget about me' winning on turn 3.

KGB

The difference between turn 3 and turn 0/1 is very relevant in competitive PvE.

Vhailorx

@killahKlown said:
Skip Jeff. Wait for dino, he's way better

He certainly seems easier and more reliable, even if he doesn't have as obvious a niche as Jeff. (And I am usually someone who really like true healers).

killahKlown

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:
I dunno, I think there's something there -- it's a little complicated, but the payoff is "you instantly win" and it's probably (?) the least complicated "you instantly win" against high health PvE fights.

The Away Team / Blue Man Group (Hawkeye, IM40, Kang + supports) says 'Don't forget about me' winning on turn 3.

KGB

Some of these goofy nicknames you guys come up with are a little out there

KGB

@entrailbucket said:

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:
I dunno, I think there's something there -- it's a little complicated, but the payoff is "you instantly win" and it's probably (?) the least complicated "you instantly win" against high health PvE fights.

The Away Team / Blue Man Group (Hawkeye, IM40, Kang + supports) says 'Don't forget about me' winning on turn 3.

KGB

The difference between turn 3 and turn 0/1 is very relevant in competitive PvE.

Absolutely. I just didn't think there was a way to get enough AP on turn 0 from supports/boosts to insta-win in CL10 with any team (minus the easy nodes with Thanos of course).

KGB

Bowgentle

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:
I dunno, I think there's something there -- it's a little complicated, but the payoff is "you instantly win" and it's probably (?) the least complicated "you instantly win" against high health PvE fights.

The Away Team / Blue Man Group (Hawkeye, IM40, Kang + supports) says 'Don't forget about me' winning on turn 3.

KGB

The difference between turn 3 and turn 0/1 is very relevant in competitive PvE.

Absolutely. I just didn't think there was a way to get enough AP on turn 0 from supports/boosts to insta-win in CL10 with any team (minus the easy nodes with Thanos of course).

KGB

High level Apoc will definitely win turn 1.

Blackstone

HEvo comes with a fun mini game trying to see how high you can get his health if you're not in a hurry.

HEvo, Kang, Deathlok, gets you ten AP per turn, minimum.

He's sneaky good and fun to play even if he's not top tier meta.