Which 4* of the NEW ones do you use regularly?

WhiteBomber

I feel like there is a large misperception around the term "4* player", at least there must be if people think those characters are somehow good for a 4* player.

Before I rant, I must note, that in my experience thus far, I feel I might be in the minority in regards to character usage. I will destroy my health packs looking for a reason to play ANY character; I am looking for the fun more than the win. Along with that I will say I in no way hate these characters or think they themselves are poorly designed, and I think the vacuum comment hit's it right on the head.

The entirety of the 4* tier in general, is basically useless. They are far too weak in comparison to 5s (of course there are very minor exceptions like Polaris etc.), but any person playing the game (any at all, whether new, or returning with a weak roster) will immediately have access to single 5 covers that destroy the entire 4* roster. I personally got my fiancé in to the game (just a short few months ago), and within weeks she was able to hone in on the imbalance and get the few things she needed to never play any of the 4 star characters.

Therefore, the term 4* star player is really just "5* player who will still struggle against stronger 5* rosters". Hell, she was seeing completely covered 5* players in PVE level 5 or something silly. This only becomes relevant in that vacuum someone just mentioned, if there were more events etc. that only allowed 4* characters, suddenly the game gets significantly more diverse (at least in regards some other 4*'s standing a chance to play, PVP would still be like 6 different characters that are best on defense).

I am definitely not looking to start a debate or counter anyone else's points. I am someone who really just loves different ways of experiencing this game, and it breaks my heart to have sooooo many of these diverse 4*'s that just have zero use. I read this topic, and I just had to get this off my chest. It is seriously flawed, but not impossible to fix, and any of the work these developers put in to these characters deserves better, give them some time in the sun!

mani82

Cosmo

Deathlok should have been included Will and if so he would have won the poll by a mile for all those who tend to use 4*

skittledaddy

@KGB said:

@Bowgentle said:
And yes, the very vocal 3 softcappers aren't 4* players, either.

Correct. There is no way we are bringing a L280 character over a L350-370 character.

KGB

Nor my lvl 310 Clea, either.
Though I don't mind as much when she is the 4E because her featured-boost allows her to tank purple and blue over Polaris in the 4E node.

will7612

Clea

@mani82 said:
Deathlok should have been included Will and if so he would have won the poll by a mile for all those who tend to use 4*

I agree, I considered the 2023 4* releases

entrailbucket

I think @WhiteBomber has pretty accurately described the overall balance problem in the game. It's got nothing to do with how good individual characters are -- the only thing that actually matters is where they sit in the rankings, and which other characters you have access to.

Before the boosts showed up, I often made the argument that ranking 5* characters was generally a worthless exercise -- it doesn't really matter if Black Widow is better or worse than Wasp, because you will never use either one of them, as long as you have a better option. Before the boosts, there were effectively two tiers: usable characters and the trash tier.

Boosts change the calculus on this, because 100 levels often matters. But the point @WhiteBomber made is a really good one -- 5* characters are more available than ever, so for many players, 4* characters are now competing for usage with low-covered 5* characters. Most of the 4* are going to lose that matchup every time.

ThaRoadWarrior

That kind of gets back to my thing that there are many powers unique to the 4* tier that still play well across tiers, and those don't always belong to the top tier ones. But Most people are going to just get the good ones and move on.

Scofie

Is this a problem with the Boosts system, though?

I would think that a boosted 4* should be an equivalent match for a baby champ 5*. So, I compared my 475 unboosted Kitty with a boosted 475 Peggy.

With Peggy boosted, despite a >double health and stat increases, she has <half Kitty's unboosted match damage.

They have similar health.

So that just leaves powers. At 5, Peggy's Red does 32k for 9AP, Phoenix (471) does 19k plus the strikes for 8AP. Gamora (458) does about 34k (11k AoE + 11k/downed opponent) for 9 AP so broadly comparable.

Question then would be: if match damage for 4s were doubled, would it make the tier more viable and/or better than the odd 1 or 2 cover 5?

Bowgentle

If you raise match damage of 4s to 5* level, 10 4s would instantly become better than 3/4 of the 5* tier, with the 4 boosted at 370 and the 5 unboosted at 450.

Scofie

@Bowgentle said:
If you raise match damage of 4s to 5* level, 10 4s would instantly become better than 3/4 of the 5* tier, with the 4 boosted at 370 and the 5 unboosted at 450.

But that would make them usable, when boosted, in 5* land, right? And that would increase variation during boost weeks. I mean, it's only the match damage getting the boost and it's not like anyone is using Polaris for the match damage anyway.

I'm not really seeing any drawbacks - in the same way boosted 5s are making some characters usable again, boosted 4s still won't beat the boosted 5 characters but could hold their own against 1 or 2 covered 5s, thereby making the tier actually useful as @WhiteBomber points out above.

Boosted characters should be able to punch up a tier otherwise there is a massive divide between them (and a huge waste of around 280 slots on my roster). I'd have to look at boosted 3s - I don't think the power gap is as sufficient between the tiers currently, but would be if you increased 4* match damage.

Bowgentle

The whole point of 5s is their high match damage.
That was their selling point when they introduced them in 2015.
Closing that gap would go against one of the core design principles of the game.

Scofie

@Bowgentle said:
The whole point of 5s is their high match damage.
That was their selling point when they introduced them in 2015.
Closing that gap would go against one of the core design principles of the game.

It wasn't their only selliing point. They also had huge health pools in comparison (and still do against unboosted 4*s) and fairly weighty powers compared to the 4s at the time. But that was a long time ago and there is power creep to contend with, so revisiting design principles after a long time is entirely reasonable if they're no longer valid.

Bowgentle

Since they've made 5* covers more available in boss events, I think they want people to move to the 5* tier, not keep them lower.

Scofie

@Bowgentle said:
Since they've made 5* covers more available in boss events, I think they want people to move to the 5* tier, not keep them lower.

I'm not so sure. If you don't need 4* or below, that's 217 roster slots you haven't sold. I think the principle here is about choices and the ability to compete with what you've got. I'm not sure that increasing match damage across the 4* tier (or just the boosted match damage multiplier to x4, from x2) would damage that. Its just another reason to roster more characters.

WhiteBomber

I personally would not put this on the boost system; I actually like the boost, though, I feel like that system was an acknowledgment of the problem with balance, IE: maybe those weak character will get some action if they are boosted. In my experience the vast majority of 4stars, even with the boost, don't justify choosing over a low level decent 5star.

Increase in match damage of course would help, but honestly I don't know that would even be enough, and it would have to be somewhere in between where it currently is and where the 5's currently are, since they should still be weaker after all. In my opinion the health would also need to be increased, along with some of the actually not viable damage / AP on many of their abilities.

It sounds like a lot of work, but honestly, I am relatively confident that you could blanket increase the health and match damage of the entire 4star roster by 50%, and even then, they wouldn't be over tuned. I totally understand some more 4's would now be better than weak 5's, but that was already the case, Polaris is better than a sizeable percentage of the 5star tier (some 5 stars naturally also need help, but at least they can crush 4's with their health and match damage, in the players hands).

** (personal feelings here) ** An example topic that truly tests my confidence in their decision quality, are the adjustments currently being made to the 4's they think they are helping.

Using SheBullseye as an example, though she isn't even the best example: Her damage numbers were increased, a decent amount too (nice), I still can't see any reason to EVER use her, and not just me, a low level 4 star player also far better options. So you just made that work investment for nothing. If this is just me, please let me know of the viability or fun I am missing.
Jubes and Beast likely need no additional context here.

If they are going to over tune anyone, it should be a 4star; at least if you make them a little too strong, a low level 5 star will still shut them down, if you over tune a 5 star, that's it, it's Chasm for ever and I never get to hear about anything else . I think the reason a big reason people love Okoye so much is (on top of just being an excellent char) she brings some of the otherwise dead, back to the roster, breathing new life in to the game with fun mechanics. I am even pursuing 5star Evo (which did not seemingly go over well here) just so I can look to res even more 4star mechanics!

NemoAbernnigan

Cosmo

@will7612 said:

Honestly not much though. His blue can make for some cool plays by allowing you a huge amount of a color from the charges if you can set it up right with Shang or MThor or something. Deathlok was the last genuinely quality 4 * IMHO.

CHRISJN

Sorry. NONE

Captain_Trips88

to answer this poll none. The only 4*s I ever use outside of required are deathlok and gorr with okoye to breeze through PVE.

to throw in my views regarding overall 4* usage, and disclaimer as a 5* player I appreciate I have no idea what 4* rosters would look like.
As others have pointed out, gaining 5* covers is very easy in the current game, and now with bonus shards increasing gaining specific 5* covers is even easier. having just one strong 5* will eliminate a need to use practically all of the 4* tier.

Back in the day when we just had 3* the majority of the roster was used for two reasons - there wasn't one obviously strong team that could clear PVE super quick and there was a large degree of rock paper scissors going on. Believe it or not, but you actually had to think about your team set up each fight.

But there are now obvious teams that are the best at 4* and 5* levels and anyone playing to compete or just wants to get their rewards as quick as possible will pick one team and that's it for the event.

I think the only way 4* would become viable again is through an event being created that restricts the roster in some way. something like you can only use a character once in say 10 fights, meaning you have to fall back onto using other characters on your roster. Obviously this is not something that would happen, the precious top 1% would lose their minds over not using their meta team, and as it would be entirely new programming it would go horribly wrong.

I guess the other option is more puzzle gauntlet style win conditions where some of the unique 4* powers come into play. I personally enjoy having to think about what team to take into the fight to meet the conditions and its a bit more fun. Alternatively, more milestones similar to the guardians/spiderverse ones. Maybe a 'use 10 unique characters ' then 20, 30 etc. Just anything that rewards using a diverse roster that isn't game breaking

Bad

Indeed. Just make heroic events where you only could use a bunch of 4* characters and nothing else.
However, they did something similar with gargantos boss event. And there was a huge amount of complaints.
People like to dream on playing a lot of characters. But actually at the time of truth they absolutely despise not being able to play their fast meta team.
The ones to blame are the soft devs.
If I was one of them myself I'd say if you don't want to play heroics then say goodbye to the 5* tasty covers.