Which 4* of the NEW ones do you use regularly?

DAZ0273

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
Is that timeline right? Surely there were year(s) between that Kitty/Rocket moment and Polaris coming out. the back was broken on that combo at the 4* tier well before polaris/juggernaut were in the mix by Sabretooth if no one else. There were a string of ineffective counters for sure though, like Kraven, Dazzler, Main Event Hulk, and even God Emperor Doom who had to die to clear the board of SAPs, which is wild that sacrificing a 5* to hamstring a 4* was considered viable.

R4G was released in 2017 for GotG2, Kitty was released September 2018. Polaris was released August 2020, so nearly 2 years later. In between we had Bishop (November 2018) who was the most used counter to Kitty that I remember - especially in SHIELD Sim. Juggernaut was released in July 2019, so nearly a full year behind Kitty.

KGB

@entrailbucket said:
@KGB well all of that certainly makes a lot of sense, and I've seen similar at the 5* tier, so it absolutely tracks with the kind of stuff that Demiurge used to do -- jumping through bizarre hoops to avoid doing nerfs, even if a nerf would've been much less work and had a much better result.

So now I have a different question, I guess. If Polaris wasn't designed specifically to be an on-ramp to the 5* tier (and I never believed she was), but she's taken on that role, why haven't the developers recognized that and created any other character who could fill that role?

(My theory? One that's supported by a significant amount of evidence over the years? They don't know how. They'd create another one if they could, but they don't really know what they're doing.)

Polaris definitely wasn't designed as a ramp to the 5 star tier. IMO, she only became that ramp with the release of BrB (who was released shortly after she was) who proved to be an even better partner for her than Grocket because of his passive AP gain in the 2 colors they both can use to create Winfintes. Had BrB been released with his Blue power being on another color (say Black) and his passive AP gain being Black/Green then Polaris would never have become what she became.

Not sure I agree with they don't know how because they could easily release an OP character that did something like 20K damage for 3 AP in the 4 star tier that also self fueled via some kind of passive AP gain (sort of like the original Ragnarok way back when).

One thing we also don't know is whether it's 1 person or a team of people or multiple individuals (Bob designed Polaris, Joe designed BrB etc) designing characters. Knowing that would help figure out whether it was a specific person or a certain team that tended to create the better characters. The reason I say that is because Polaris and BrB were released very close to each other in time and it still seems crazy to me that they would have designed 2 characters that coupled so perfectly together on purpose when it was clear to everyone on this Forum what was going to happen when BrB was released. This is why I think it's a Bob designed Polaris and Joe designed BrB thing and neither had any idea what the other was doing until it was too late.

KGB

DAZ0273

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:
@KGB well all of that certainly makes a lot of sense, and I've seen similar at the 5* tier, so it absolutely tracks with the kind of stuff that Demiurge used to do -- jumping through bizarre hoops to avoid doing nerfs, even if a nerf would've been much less work and had a much better result.

So now I have a different question, I guess. If Polaris wasn't designed specifically to be an on-ramp to the 5* tier (and I never believed she was), but she's taken on that role, why haven't the developers recognized that and created any other character who could fill that role?

(My theory? One that's supported by a significant amount of evidence over the years? They don't know how. They'd create another one if they could, but they don't really know what they're doing.)

Polaris definitely wasn't designed as a ramp to the 5 star tier. IMO, she only became that ramp with the release of BrB (who was released shortly after she was) who proved to be an even better partner for her than Grocket because of his passive AP gain in the 2 colors they both can use to create Winfintes. Had BrB been released with his Blue power being on another color (say Black) and his passive AP gain being Black/Green then Polaris would never have become what she became.

Not sure I agree with they don't know how because they could easily release an OP character that did something like 20K damage for 3 AP in the 4 star tier that also self fueled via some kind of passive AP gain (sort of like the original Ragnarok way back when).

One thing we also don't know is whether it's 1 person or a team of people or multiple individuals (Bob designed Polaris, Joe designed BrB etc) designing characters. Knowing that would help figure out whether it was a specific person or a certain team that tended to create the better characters. The reason I say that is because Polaris and BrB were released very close to each other in time and it still seems crazy to me that they would have designed 2 characters that coupled so perfectly together on purpose when it was clear to everyone on this Forum what was going to happen when BrB was released. This is why I think it's a Bob designed Polaris and Joe designed BrB thing and neither had any idea what the other was doing until it was too late.

KGB

BRB was released December 2019, 8 months prior to Polaris

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/80639/beta-ray-bill-korbinite-cyborg/p1

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/83324/polaris-lorna-dane/p1

KGB

My bad, I swore it was the other way around and she came first.

Then the mistake was releasing her with a Blue power stun/strike creation instead of using another color like say Black.

KGB

entrailbucket

@KGB Demiurge had multiple designers working on characters independently. I know this because I talked to a few of them, a bunch of times. I don't know how BCS does things.

TheVulture

"None of the above": most recently Deathlok as a Kang battery, Morbius for the occasional match-up - then I think all the way back to Polaris.

MoosePrime

@KGB said:
My bad, I swore it was the other way around and she came first.

Then the mistake was releasing her with a Blue power stun/strike creation instead of using another color like say Black.

KGB

It would have fit thematically on Black, with the enemy Strike tiles as a downside.

ThaRoadWarrior

BRB was out when Bishop released, I recall a few of us seeing OG bishop's powerset in the preview thread and saying "this ought to be good..." and lo, it was as we predicted.

Bowgentle

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
BRB was out when Bishop released, I recall a few of us seeing OG bishop's powerset in the preview thread and saying "this ought to be good..." and lo, it was as we predicted.

Bill was almost a year after Bishop.

entrailbucket

It's pretty funny how nobody remembers the order of characters -- I always forget too!

Someone should make a post that's just a list of characters and release dates, in order.

Scofie

@entrailbucket said:
It's pretty funny how nobody remembers the order of characters -- I always forget too!

Someone should make a post that's just a list of characters and release dates, in order.

@Aweberman has done one for the 5s here: https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/comment/928558/#Comment_928558
First page has some of the early 4 releases.

entrailbucket

@Scofie said:

@entrailbucket said:
It's pretty funny how nobody remembers the order of characters -- I always forget too!

Someone should make a post that's just a list of characters and release dates, in order.

@Aweberman has done one for the 5s here: https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/comment/928558/#Comment_928558
First page has some of the early 4 releases.

This is great!

WhiteBomber

I haven't found a reason or team for any of those characters . I have all of them covered, and hope to find a team for cosmo at some point.

I truly wish there was a reason to play them, but truth be told, I have multiple 5 star characters with only 2 (or even 1 single) covers that are far better (and more fun!) than these ones completed. Unless they all get buffed, or a new member unlocks their potential, I can't imagine using them.

ThaRoadWarrior

@Bowgentle said:

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
BRB was out when Bishop released, I recall a few of us seeing OG bishop's powerset in the preview thread and saying "this ought to be good..." and lo, it was as we predicted.

Bill was almost a year after Bishop.

Lol; I went back to those threads and that is totally correct - I was like the third post in the BRB thread warning of bishop synergy. Had it inverted in my memory

will7612

Clea

@WhiteBomber said:
I haven't found a reason or team for any of those characters . I have all of them covered, and hope to find a team for cosmo at some point.

I truly wish there was a reason to play them, but truth be told, I have multiple 5 star characters with only 2 (or even 1 single) covers that are far better (and more fun!) than these ones completed. Unless they all get buffed, or a new member unlocks their potential, I can't imagine using them.

totally agree, that is why I made up the original poll; even some 5* with two covers are more useful; I get them just "to fill the bag"; champ them if they feed a desirable 5*

entrailbucket

In a vacuum, none of these guys are actually bad. M'Baku is an unkillable tank with 5* match damage. Clea has two different stun/shutdown powers, Torch can do very good damage -- among the top 4*.

The problem is that there are several older characters that are just better. Why would I use Clea to stun or shutdown someone when Polaris has a cheap stun + all her other passives? Why would I bring M'Baku as a tank when Juggernaut does the same thing + a free AoE?

It's reverse power creep, which is a weird thing to do when they want us to chase the new guys.

Bowgentle

I keep hearing how great Clea is, but I've not cast her blue.
Like, ever.
9 AP isn't happening in a Chasm world, and if I bring a blue battery, I might as well use Kang.
Maybe she's really great for 4* players, none of us would know, because we are not 4* players.
And yes, the very vocal 3 softcappers aren't 4* players, either.

KGB

@Bowgentle said:
And yes, the very vocal 3 softcappers aren't 4* players, either.

Correct. There is no way we are bringing a L280 character over a L350-370 character.

KGB

pepitedechocolat

Human Torch (Anhilus)

They are not "new" but with boost I have seen many boosted northstar (rebalanced semi recently) and valkyrie during wiccan PVP, Which was refreshing.

@Bowgentle said:
I keep hearing how great Clea is, but I've not cast her blue.
Like, ever.
9 AP isn't happening in a Chasm world, and if I bring a blue battery, I might as well use Kang.
Maybe she's really great for 4* players, none of us would know, because we are not 4* players.
And yes, the very vocal 3 softcappers aren't 4* players, either.

Are you putting me in that bucket u seem to despise?

DAZ0273

@pepitedechocolat said:
They are not "new" but with boost I have seen many boosted northstar (rebalanced semi recently) and valkyrie during wiccan PVP, Which was refreshing.

@Bowgentle said:
I keep hearing how great Clea is, but I've not cast her blue.
Like, ever.
9 AP isn't happening in a Chasm world, and if I bring a blue battery, I might as well use Kang.
Maybe she's really great for 4* players, none of us would know, because we are not 4* players.
And yes, the very vocal 3 softcappers aren't 4* players, either.

Are you putting me in that bucket u seem to despise?

I am not going to speak for Bowgentle but his point is that at least two of the softcappers active on this forum have the resources and roster to go to the 5* tier at any time and are in no way an accurate representation of what a 4* player would be expected to look like. Most 4* players do not have every single or a large majority of 5* fully covered with millions and millions of iso in the bank and years of stored up resources.

None of that is intended as a criticism and people can play the game as they see fit (see also co-operation in PvP), however it is fact. If you are in a similar situation then you are not really representative of a4* player either because you would be able to changer your circumstances instantly and are otherwise choosing to try and manipulate the game (why I honestly don't know because seriously the 5* tier is not scary in the slightest). Up to you.

Anyway back to new 4* not being used because Polaris, America Chavez and low cover 5* exists...