@nycjonny said: I have all the “tools”’mentioned and remain unconvinced that a true revive counter that is also decent on defense exists as of yet… unless they are also boosted. Though most are fun to play.
Yea. A decent amount of breaks need to still go my way to come out on top.
I usually don't pay attention to the stats until they hit the streets so to speak, and even then really not till i champ them. I thought she seemed interesting before but I haven't been watching that thread to see what happened to Magik.
I would say that the bit of OP's question that didn't get addressed is why the offical forums are the last place information shows up, usually second or thirdhand by people who frequent reddit/discord to bring it back.
First of all, thank you for coming here again. Second of all, these answers don't give me a lot of confidence.
The toolkit for dealing with Chasm... Wong is part of that? What is Wong supposed to do against Chasm exactly? It's like saying "here, have a couple of spoons, now go against that Swiss Army knife that is Chasm ".
Also, implementing CL 10 to a PVE would involve looking at the nodes, I would hope. Stuff like a 2* essential node instead of a challenge node should have been spotted at first glance.
I appreciate what you guys are doing, but these are some pretty weird answers.
Yea no, when it comes to EotS ZERO effort was made here. Anyone who has played SCL10 would have noticed straight away that the nodes were not updated and went, "yea let's not run this, it's not ready".
You guys need to put more manpower into updating and aligning events and improving the overall gaming experience that has been dragging this game down for years. New characters can wait.
@Bzhai said: Yea no, when it comes to EotS ZERO effort was made here. Anyone who has played SCL10 would have noticed straight away that the nodes were not updated and went, "yea let's not run this, it's not ready". You guys need to put more manpower into updating and aligning events and improving the overall gaming experience that has been dragging this game down for years. New characters can wait.
@Bzhai said: Yea no, when it comes to EotS ZERO effort was made here. Anyone who has played SCL10 would have noticed straight away that the nodes were not updated and went, "yea let's not run this, it's not ready".
The thing is, New characters can NOT wait. Their business model is selling roster slots. No new characters, no revenue from people buying HP for slots, game dies. So everything else is a very distant third behind new characters and daily cash offers. Which is ok! Just don't ask them to hold off on new characters because that will never, ever happen.
@StanleyBurrell said: @justsing said: I've stopped playing PVP aside from a few matches here and there thanks to Chasm. I'm clearly not seeing this "less and less of a dominant player in the PVP scene" thing that you guys are seeing....... Same here. I have 4 550’s and struggle to beat a pair of 460’s. It’s honestly a joke. Sign into my account and go find something without Chasm. Hint.. you won’t. Since I’m in 550 MMR it’s all I get to see though. PvP is a horrible experience and it seems with the recent run of EotS PvE is heading down that same path.
@StanleyBurrell said:
@justsing said: I've stopped playing PVP aside from a few matches here and there thanks to Chasm. I'm clearly not seeing this "less and less of a dominant player in the PVP scene" thing that you guys are seeing.......
Same here. I have 4 550’s and struggle to beat a pair of 460’s. It’s honestly a joke. Sign into my account and go find something without Chasm.
Hint.. you won’t. Since I’m in 550 MMR it’s all I get to see though. PvP is a horrible experience and it seems with the recent run of EotS PvE is heading down that same path.
My only recommendation is to play 50 wins, it would be better for your sanity. Or play in coordinated group and ride the cupcake train.
@Eirikr56 said: Chasm has ruined this game and the fact that the people running it don't seem to understand that is pretty ridiculous. If Magik had outsized power and affected the meta that would be a good thing for the game. The response from the community should be a sign that we don't have a lot of confidence that you are doing a good job. That's rough, it's harsh. What are you going to do about it?
@Eirikr56 said: Chasm has ruined this game and the fact that the people running it don't seem to understand that is pretty ridiculous. If Magik had outsized power and affected the meta that would be a good thing for the game.
The response from the community should be a sign that we don't have a lot of confidence that you are doing a good job. That's rough, it's harsh. What are you going to do about it?
If it's not chasm then mThor. If not mThor then it would be Kang.
At this point please don't nerf chasm, just make a hard counter for him. You would not need offer compensation. Ppl would spend for the counter. And best reason to do it...every other discussion would not turn into a chasm debate.
@Codex said: @StanleyBurrell said: @justsing said: I've stopped playing PVP aside from a few matches here and there thanks to Chasm. I'm clearly not seeing this "less and less of a dominant player in the PVP scene" thing that you guys are seeing....... Same here. I have 4 550’s and struggle to beat a pair of 460’s. It’s honestly a joke. Sign into my account and go find something without Chasm. Hint.. you won’t. Since I’m in 550 MMR it’s all I get to see though. PvP is a horrible experience and it seems with the recent run of EotS PvE is heading down that same path. My only recommendation is to play 50 wins, it would be better for your sanity. Or play in coordinated group and ride the cupcake train.
@Codex said:
I hear you. The biggest frustration is even if I use the breadth of my roster nearly all I see is 550 Chasm until I break through. It’s honestly easier just not to play 😂
@Codex said: If it's not chasm then mThor. If not mThor then it would be Kang.
Neither Jane nor Kang stun the enemy team at the start of the battle or when they revive, nor drain enemy AP every turn, nor true heal. Passively (ok, the heal requires matching web tiles).
A hard counter for Chasm would have to suppress all three mechanics passively.
When people see Jane and/or Kang, they'll think "it'll probably be an irritating fight, but very winnable". When people see Chasm, especially partnered with iHulk or She-Hulk or both, they sigh and wonder why they continue to bother with PvP.
Chasm really is a special case. Not only does he ruin other players experience (not the worst thing) he absolutely ruins your own experience (definitely the worst thing). He actively* makes it so trying to use the vast majority of your roster on a team with him is a frustrating AP draining bore fest. He is basically the mean girl in Charlie Brown who moves the 🏈 as Charlie is about to kick it. The only way to stop mean girls is to not let them play.
*No passively which is even more terrible! If it was actively you could at least choose not to kneecap anybody!
Here's some good news via reddit for Chasm haters:
First response (I copied only reply related to Chasm)
"As for Chasm, his performance is nominal right up until you put him in that cocktail that is tough as nails to keep down. Without his buddies and without some of the tools we've added (and are adding), he's a monster that's become more manageable with time.
Thanks for the reply!"
*Second reponse"
"And if this latest set of releases doesn’t pan out as we’d like with regards to Chasm’s success, our next step will be to apply a rebalance to him."
The good news is, if the latest set of releases doesn't give them the result they want, Chasm will be nerfed. The one question is, who are part of this "latest set of releases"? The bad news is, if it gives the dev results that they like, then Chasm won't be nerfed. Key phrases: pan out as we'd like.
The second bad news is Chasm haters are probably stuck with this for a couple more months.
Mod note: I have removed a few posts that were decidedly off-topic. Please keep this discussion on topic. Thank you.
I can’t say I was overly excited for her kit before it got nerfed, just doesn’t match my play or needs. However, I really wish the idea that we can’t have powerful characters because they will be hard to beat in PVP would go away.
It’s just my opinion, but PvP needs an overhaul altogether. Instead of always looking for milk toast characters so it can function properly. It makes the game less fun to have weak 5* in an any capacity.
Themed PVP seems to work out much better. Until the “OP” character hits the scene on one of them. Anyway, I don’t have skin in the game on this one, I don’t really run Chasm much. Just wish we could have nice things without people running into the ice cream shop and complaining that the new flavors outshine their favorite and need to be switched out for vanilla.
@HoundofShadow said: Here's some good news via reddit for Chasm haters: First response (I copied only reply related to Chasm) "As for Chasm, his performance is nominal right up until you put him in that cocktail that is tough as nails to keep down. Without his buddies and without some of the tools we've added (and are adding), he's a monster that's become more manageable with time. Thanks for the reply!" *Second reponse" "And if this latest set of releases doesn’t pan out as we’d like with regards to Chasm’s success, our next step will be to apply a rebalance to him." The good news is, if the latest set of releases doesn't give them the result they want, Chasm will be nerfed. The one question is, who are part of this "latest set of releases"? The bad news is, if it gives the dev results that they like, then Chasm won't be nerfed. Key phrases: pan out as we'd like. The second bad news is Chasm haters are probably stuck with this for a couple more months.
@HoundofShadow said: Here's some good news via reddit for Chasm haters:
I think he is for sure getting nerfed and here’s why.
The issue isn’t that he can’t be beat. So they can keep trotting out these counters that give players “tools”; but none of it is moving the bar because we already have tools. Unless the counter is a full-stop revive-killer where it becomes harmful or detrimental run a Chasm team if opposing this counter character. But that harms more than just Chasm.
The actual issues are threefold. One, as already mentioned earlier he is not fun to play with or against. True to his name he sucks the life out of the game, whether he’s beatable or not.
Two (and this is a big one), Chasm/ihulk is often better than godbosted combos. That is simply not the case for any other team nor should it be the case. I don’t want to bring my unboosted Kang or Riri to fight an unboosted Chasm. If Chasm’s power levels were in line with everyone else, I could bring whatever boosted characters are available and trounce him, bringing diversity back to the meta. Some boost weeks with the top tier 5s, this is the case, but it should be the case way more often.
Three, the wall of Chasm. So, not only do I not want to use the same “tools” to fight an unfun team, I for sure do not want to do it over and over ad nauseum. But as long as they remain the most powerful option on a given week (beatable or not), they will continue to create an unfun gaming experience.
This is why he will be nerfed. I wait with bated breath.
@jp1 said: I can’t say I was overly excited for her kit before it got nerfed, just doesn’t match my play or needs. However, I really wish the idea that we can’t have powerful characters because they will be hard to beat in PVP would go away. It’s just my opinion, but PvP needs an overhaul altogether. Instead of always looking for milk toast characters so it can function properly. It makes the game less fun to have weak 5* in an any capacity. Themed PVP seems to work out much better. Until the “OP” character hits the scene on one of them. Anyway, I don’t have skin in the game on this one, I don’t really run Chasm much. Just wish we could have nice things without people running into the ice cream shop and complaining that the new flavors outshine their favorite and need to be switched out for vanilla.
@jp1 said: I can’t say I was overly excited for her kit before it got nerfed, just doesn’t match my play or needs. However, I really wish the idea that we can’t have powerful characters because they will be hard to beat in PVP would go away.
Who's asking for weak 5*? I want the exact opposite of that. We already HAVE a ton of weak 5s. I want Wasp to be as strong as Chasm, and every new character to be about that strong as well.
People asking for Chasm to stay unchanged are the ones asking for weak 5* -- they want Chasm to stay the way he is, making every other character weak by comparison.
@HoundofShadow said: Here's some good news via reddit for Chasm haters: First response (I copied only reply related to Chasm) "As for Chasm, his performance is nominal right up until you put him in that cocktail that is tough as nails to keep down. Without his buddies and without some of the tools we've added (and are adding), he's a monster that's become more manageable with time.
So based this reply, does it not make sense to nerf ihulk. Add 5 turn revive limit and be done with it. I don't believe this effect ihulk viability in PvE. So win-win?
@entrailbucket said: @jp1 said: I can’t say I was overly excited for her kit before it got nerfed, just doesn’t match my play or needs. However, I really wish the idea that we can’t have powerful characters because they will be hard to beat in PVP would go away. It’s just my opinion, but PvP needs an overhaul altogether. Instead of always looking for milk toast characters so it can function properly. It makes the game less fun to have weak 5* in an any capacity. Themed PVP seems to work out much better. Until the “OP” character hits the scene on one of them. Anyway, I don’t have skin in the game on this one, I don’t really run Chasm much. Just wish we could have nice things without people running into the ice cream shop and complaining that the new flavors outshine their favorite and need to be switched out for vanilla. Who's asking for weak 5*? I want the exact opposite of that. We already HAVE a ton of weak 5s. I want Wasp to be as strong as Chasm, and every new character to be about that strong as well. People asking for Chasm to stay unchanged are the ones asking for weak 5* -- they want Chasm to stay the way he is, making every other character weak by comparison.
@entrailbucket said:
There is always someone to rally the troops and get people asking for a nerf, not you just speaking generally here. It has happened time and again and will happen moving forward for the foreseeable future for two reasons…
I don’t want a roster of equivalent characters and I have almost all of them champed (save the newest trio). I want diversity in power levels with a good baseline. So my ideal character budget would raise the bar for weak 5*s and be extended to even broader scope for meta releases. It’s just so boring (in my opinion) for everyone to be equivalent. It also doesn’t feel like true Marvel which has a real power scale for their IP. There are some characters who should scare you on the opposing team.
The ship has sailed on it being the characters that match comic power levels, but at least we still have some power diversity going on. Not nerfing Chasm means stronger counters must be released. I think this is best for both sides.
This all just looks like history repeating itself where Chasm is Gambit and Riri, Hit Monkey, etc. are the "counters" (AA, Beardcap) that followed...
@fight4thedream thanks for the ping!
I'll do my best to respond.
As for the character testing process, there are several types of testing that we run with different focuses. We have a small internal team of QA that performs high-level testing. They work pretty closely with the engineering team, identifying crashes and warnings, and looking to find odd interactions that potentially operate outside of the bounds of intention. We have a much larger external team of QA that perform a more comprehensive review that encompasses everything mentioned earlier, and more. With their broader resources, they look for optimal methods of play, strong team compositions, good and bad matchups, and a win frequency, and more.
I mentioned this elsewhere (I don't recall precisely where), but the sneak peek stats that we reveal to players ahead of time must be generated in advance, as communications like that require sign-off from numerous parties and at a certain point are handled by a completely different group.
All of this works together to make changes like the ones applied to Magik appear much more impulsive than they actually were. I realize that many players believe that Magik's sneak peek stats were strong but not overly so in theory. In truth, her win rate was north of 90%. I know players see the changes applied as a nerf, but Magik never shipped with these stat values and these might essentially be thought of as bad numbers brought on by a math error in calculating her power budget that was corrected in tandem with marketing efforts in motion.
All that said, we also look at the matter of game balance and character power as fluid. When we don't like the numbers we're seeing, we work on them. While Magik's current numbers are much more in line with the norm for 5* characters, if she needs a bump she'll get it.
I wonder how these win rates are calculated and what an ideal win rate might be. Who are the characters going against in these testings? How low can a win rate be before intervention? Are boosts part of this equation?
I think the new team is awesome, I just don’t understand why trash tier 5s is still a thing, while meta characters must be dealt with swiftly.
I acknowledge and appreciate the efforts to rebalance old 5s, but honestly it barely moved the needle for any of them. It’s a light bump, while the nerfs are generally full destruction of a useful character.