I think it would be a good idea for bcs to make a post here as I'm hearing that info is on reddit but nothing here. After the EOTS scl 10 problem, kang going screwy with his wave nodes, and now with magik having a huge alteration (whether it is necessary or not) who could of been a Chasm counter but now seems to be neutered straight out of the gate. Would be nice to hear from the team regarding any of the above.
Hi there! Dev here!
The subject of the post is broad, but I'll do my best to span it.
EotS: this was the debut of a retired event that previously did not have the SCL tiers that are currently present. We implemented them, but players have pointed out that the event's rewards need tuning. Players also discovered other bugs, most notably an issue with Kang's interaction with wave nodes within (and elsewhere). Notes on these issues have been made, some have already been corrected for future runs, and compensation is being calculated with a plan to roll out very soon.
Kang: similarly to Chasm, Kang features interactions with the game that were laden with issues, requiring changes to the underlying engine to support. Wave nodes are a common occurrence in play and seem like obvious places to test thoroughly, but in the grand scheme of things are only a facet of all of the possible types of interactions in the game. Kang's issues have been sorted out and we're targeting a patch (likely later tonight as of this writing) to correct these issues. Compensation for these issues is being factored in with the EotS compensation.
Magik: while Magik's stats update is a big jump, her initial stats fell far outside of the power budget of a normal character. As for Magik's position as an outright Chasm counter, this isn't entirely her intention. Since the release of Chasm, numerous tools have been implemented to help players overcome challenges with revive centric teams that Chasm makes all the more powerful. Hit Monkey, Wong, Kang, and now Magik all are part of that toolkit, allowing players to strategically deal with the Chasm threat. Over time we've seen players put these tools to good use and we're seeing Chasm as less and less of a dominant player in the PVP scene. We view the game fluidly and if Magik needs a numerical bump to better serve in her role of dishing out permanent damage, we'll definitely do that.
Thanks for the post!
I have never seen Hit Monkey or Wong in PvP. Not once. Are those characters showing up at lower matchmaking levels?
I haven't seen 5* Kang either, but I imagine he'll show up more starting today. I do see a bunch of im40/3* Kang teams, once I've climbed high enough that I only see 5 point matches.
Chasm hasn't shown up as much in PvP the last couple weeks because the boost lists have been good. I did see quite a few Chasm/Thor teams this last event though. In shield sim, I joined, saw 100% Team Immortal at 550/550/550, and quit.
@DevpoolMPQ_BCS said: Hi there! Dev here! The subject of the post is broad, but I'll do my best to span it. EotS: this was the debut of a retired event that previously did not have the SCL tiers that are currently present. We implemented them, but players have pointed out that the event's rewards need tuning. Players also discovered other bugs, most notably an issue with Kang's interaction with wave nodes within (and elsewhere). Notes on these issues have been made, some have already been corrected for future runs, and compensation is being calculated with a plan to roll out very soon. Kang: similarly to Chasm, Kang features interactions with the game that were laden with issues, requiring changes to the underlying engine to support. Wave nodes are a common occurrence in play and seem like obvious places to test thoroughly, but in the grand scheme of things are only a facet of all of the possible types of interactions in the game. Kang's issues have been sorted out and we're targeting a patch (likely later tonight as of this writing) to correct these issues. Compensation for these issues is being factored in with the EotS compensation. Magik: while Magik's stats update is a big jump, her initial stats fell far outside of the power budget of a normal character. As for Magik's position as an outright Chasm counter, this isn't entirely her intention. Since the release of Chasm, numerous tools have been implemented to help players overcome challenges with revive centric teams that Chasm makes all the more powerful. Hit Monkey, Wong, Kang, and now Magik all are part of that toolkit, allowing players to strategically deal with the Chasm threat. Over time we've seen players put these tools to good use and we're seeing Chasm as less and less of a dominant player in the PVP scene. We view the game fluidly and if Magik needs a numerical bump to better serve in her role of dishing out permanent damage, we'll definitely do that. Thanks for the post!
@DevpoolMPQ_BCS said: Hi there! Dev here!
Thank you for coming back to me, glad you guys are aware of the issues that alot of the player base are concerned about
I've stopped playing PVP aside from a few matches here and there thanks to Chasm. I'm clearly not seeing this "less and less of a dominant player in the PVP scene" thing that you guys are seeing.......
@justsing I certainly wouldn’t say Chasm teams have gone extinct; far from it. Chasm is a character folks have invested some power into and these new answers are warming up for many. If they don’t do the trick we’ll likely pull the trigger on a revive cap nerf or something similar. We don’t consider it a done deal by any means.
I've been using HM some matches against the revivals in the early goings of pvp when I'm just concerned with getting wins. That's usually when I play around with and try new things out.
I have seen a handful of HM in the lighting rounds. It's always when I'm under 300 points, after that it's nothing but chasm/ihulk. I don't play the lightning rounds like I use to because of that.
Wong, he is on a milk carton, nowhere to be seen.
@justsing said: I've stopped playing PVP aside from a few matches here and there thanks to Chasm. I'm clearly not seeing this "less and less of a dominant player in the PVP scene" thing that you guys are seeing.......
Same here. I have 4 550’s and struggle to beat a pair of 460’s. It’s honestly a joke. Sign into my account and go find something without Chasm.
Hint.. you won’t. Since I’m in 550 MMR it’s all I get to see though. PvP is a horrible experience and it seems with the recent run of EotS PvE is heading down that same path.
@StanleyBurrell said: @justsing said: I've stopped playing PVP aside from a few matches here and there thanks to Chasm. I'm clearly not seeing this "less and less of a dominant player in the PVP scene" thing that you guys are seeing....... Same here. I have 4 550’s and struggle to beat a pair of 460’s. It’s honestly a joke. Sign into my account and go find something without Chasm. Hint.. you won’t. Since I’m in 550 MMR it’s all I get to see though. PvP is a horrible experience and it seems with the recent run of EotS PvE is heading down that same path.
@StanleyBurrell said:
I think you're getting at something that's really significant here, and I hope devpool sees it.
Mr pool: when you guys make a mistake with power level, there are a TON of high level players who are poised to immediately jump on that mistake, max it out, and win everything for as long as that guy exists. It is really, crucially important that you catch these mistakes before they have that chance -- otherwise, yeah, you end up in the Chasm situation where people are doxing your employees and threatening to kill your pets because you nerfed him.
"Normal" players don't see the minmaxers but those of us at the top of the game ONLY see them. I have 11 550s but none of the "right" ones, and there are weeks where the game is basically unplayable in PvP. This is insane. 5* should not be so crazily uneven in power level that 550s dominate 675s.
her initial stats fell far outside of the power budget of a normal character
This sounds like a really good thing, to be honest. Between boosted 5s in PvP and CNs in PvE, having high-damage characters that can get through these matches quickly is exactly what we need.
The vast majority of 5stars, even boosted, can't put out big numbers fast enough or often enough to chew through these 200K-300K (or worse) health pools. So having anther character outside of the normal [low] numbers sounds pretty sweet.
I'll keep an open mind, but if the changes aligned her with the status quo, then it means yet another character that just won't cut it in typical play.
Live by the sword, die by the sword. This sword is call the 550 meta chasing sword. Is it fair for 550 meta chasing players to dominate in pves with ease and then bail them out in pvps where things become difficult?
If the boost week has excellent toons you see less chasm. Otherwise it’s all you see. This week mthor took care of it. The next list that starts today it will be all chasm ihulk again.
I have all the “tools”’mentioned and remain unconvinced that a true revive counter that is also decent on defense exists as of yet… unless they are also boosted. Though most are fun to play.
Anything "decent" will be used by everyone in the forum or Line. People are changing the flavour of their grief.
If her stats are outside of 'normal' and 'normal' characters never see play even when boosted, maybe that's a good thing?
@HoundofShadow said: Live by the sword, die by the sword. This sword is call the 550 meta chasing sword. Is it fair for 550 meta chasing players to dominate in pves with ease and then bail them out in pvps where things become difficult?
What do you mean is it fair?? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. Is it fair that people spend years getting characters and overnight they are basically obsolete. We’re not talking a difficult victory we’re talking neutered. Not only that, I personally have them all champed but it doesn’t matter, all I see are other 550’s. [redacted]
Mod note: Removed inappropriate language. - fight4thedream
I don’t understand what troll you’re going with today sorry. Or I’d respond.
@DevpoolMPQ_BCS: I really appreciate you taking the time to address these issues. I can understand the difficulty in working with inherited code and feel that Broken Circle has done much better with compensation for technical issues. I am thankful that you are willing to try new things at the risk of running into unforeseeable bugs.
What I don't understand is the last minute call to basically kneecap Magik. It's problematic on two fronts:
1.) It calls into question the new character testing process. A 50% decrease in power is significant and should have been noticeable in the early stages of testing before numbers were released. What's more is that it was apparently done on two of her abilities.
2.) The fact that she is hard countered by two of the top meta characters in PvP makes it come across that development team is not interested in moving the PvP meta forward. Have you seen these videos of her in pick 2 PvP?
https://streamable.com/yo6qtdhttps://streamable.com/rxls47
While you have noted she wasn't intended to be a direct counter to Chasm, it was explicitly stated that her Phoenix Claw ability was being taken down a notch because of the permanent damage, which is only relevant to healing types and reviver types. As you can see in the videos provided, she barely even scratches iHulk/Chasm.
With the release of Kang and the recent change to Jubilee that was a huge buff to the match damage meta, its hard to accept the idea that her original numbers were somehow overpowered. I have had alliance mates show me videos of Colossus downing whole teams in 1-2 turns. And now people are talking about the ease of perma-stunning teams with Mighty Thor and Riri.
It's a shame really because I was excited to finally be able to put together a team of characters that actually are teammates and have good synergy together. I admit she would have been a tough fight for non-meta teams, without a doubt. But there are already tough teams like Chasm/iHulk and Mighty Thor/Riri. The fact that she would have struggled even with her original stats against them doesn't bode well for her.
It basically places her in the mid-tier, good when boosted, not very useful when not boosted category. I really wanted to be excited with Magik as she is one of my personal favorite characters so it's a bummer to see her powers basically get halved.
I will say I am happy that we get a Darkchylde version (although I would have preferred her being the 5*). Obviously you can't please everyone and I appreciate you have your own plans and goals but I just wanted to explain why these changes to her power set are so upsetting.
As always, thank you and the dev team for your hard work!
Well, well. Chasm was released in september. On mid october I was saying here in the forums how broken he was and how pvp ranks threshold was decreasing. 6 months after, and many characters trying to counter him after, we are exactly in the same point, or worst, in terms of pvp engagement. And chasm won't be less played because there is no other character doing more amount of broken things in the game.
It’s definitely not just the 550s who run into endless Chasm and iHulk in PvP.
I am a 452 MMR player with just five champed 5s and 90-95% of the teams I saw in Simulator at the end of last PvP season were Chasm/iHulk teams. It’s really not fun. As stated here already the counters that are mentioned are not effective enough (or not effective at all).
Right, the problem is not that Magik is mid-tier. Most characters are mid-tier, and that's absolutely fine (and arguably desirable). If she was too good, I 100% support a nerf.
The problem is that pre-nerf Magik was apparently off-the-charts good by whatever standard they're using, yet somehow Chasm, Thor, and Kang were not. That means the standards are not working! All those guys are way, way better than she was!