Theorycrafting - The ideal 5* feeders

rainkingucd

From the October Q&A, BCS has indicated a mass update to feeders. Hurray!

We have a comprehensive list of feeder updates that essentially spans the entire roster. We aim to have the majority of this rolled out before the end of the year, barring any issues. Many are likely to experience a "Shardmas", and tis the season

Let's speculate!

This is for a bit of an open discussion & some fun on what everyone things is an ideal or thematic feeder. Where do you fall? Do you prefer variants feeding themselves or comic relationships coming through (Gamora --> Thanos makes complete sense. But now there's a 4* Thanos and 5*s Gamora, so should it be Gamora --> Gamora, or keep the Gamora/Thanos connection)?
Edit: Based on the update to Iron Man after Riri's announcement, I get the sense that variants will feed themselves wherever possible.

Some are likely obvious (Black Bolt <-- Medusa). Some can be a bit of fun (Loki <-- ME Hulk). Some I have no idea with the characters available. The already self fed (Captain Marvel) and where it seems unlikely someone better is out there (Adam Warlock)

I listed the 5* below, grouped into various categories, with my theories on who the feeder should be for each 5*. I duplicated a fair number of characters because there seemed to be a number that fit and my comic knowledge has some gaps, so the more discussion the better!
Edit Added a section for feeders likely not to be updated with who is in place already.

Updated

Edit with latest
Edit Puck and Jubilee are back! Shuri has secondary feed into Killmonger!
Edit The New Batch
Edit Round 6 & 7

Started Fed
She-Hulk (Immortal) <-- She-Hulk (Origin)
Emma Frost (Phoenix Five) <-- Emma Frost (Astonishing X-Men)
Arcade (Edward Acra) <-- M.O.D.O.K. (A.I.M Overlord)
Riri Williams (Ironheart 3.0) <-- Riri Williams (Ironheart)
Hit Monkey (E.D.I. Suit) <-- Domino (X-Force)

Round 1
Jean Grey (Phoenix) <-- Jean Grey (All New X-Men) / Jubilee (Uncanny X-Men)
Kitty Pryde (Uncanny X-Men) <-- Kate Pryde (Marauders) / Doop (Green One)
Wasp (Hope van Dyne) <-- Wasp (Janet van Dyne)
Yellowjacket (Darren Cross) <-- Ant-Man (Scott Lang)

Round 2 (No Retro)
Iron Man (Mark XLVI) <-- Iron Man (Hulkbuster)
Rescue (Pepper Potts) <-- War Machine (James Rhodes)

Round 3 - Shardsgiving
Cable (Nathan Summers) <-- Deathlok (Michael Collins) / Bishop (Classic)
Odin (All-Father) <-- Namor (The Sub-Mariner)
Cyclops (Phoenix Five) <-- Cyclops (Classic)
Magneto (Age of Apocalypse) <-- Juggernaut (Fear Itself)
Storm (Ororo Munroe) <-- Dazzler (Classic)
Wolverine (Samurai Daken) <-- X-23 (All-New Wolverine)
Kamala Khan (Origin) <-- Lockjaw (Royal Bulldog)

Round 4 - Shardsgiving Leftovers
Okoye (Warrior General) <-- Shuri (Master Engineer) / Namora (Origin)
Carnage (Prophet of Knull) <-- Carnage (Cletus Kasady)
Colossus (Phoenix Five) <-- Negasonic Teenage Warhead (Modern) / Puck (Eugene Judd)
Elektra (Woman Without Fear) <-- Elektra (Unkillable)
Knull (King In Black) <-- Venom (Eddie Brock)
Killmonger (Erik Stevens) <-- 1. The Hydra Stomper (Steve Rogers) & 2. Shuri (Master Engineer)

Round 5 - The New Batch
Crystal (Crystalia Amaquelin) <-- Karnak (The Shatterer)
Daredevil (Matt Murdock) <-- Echo (Maya Lopez)
Hawkeye (Clint Barton) <-- Hawkeye (Ronin) / Kate Bishop (Hawkeye)
Kingpin (Spider-Verse) <-- Kingpin (Wilson Fisk) / Miles Morales (Spider-Man)

Round 6 - Champion Harder
Abigail Brand (Commander of S.W.O.R.D.) <-- Nick Fury (Director of S.H.I.E.L.D.)
Deadpool (Spirit of Vengeance) <-- Deadpool (Uncanny X-Force)
Loki (God of Mischief) <-- Loki (Alligator of Mischief)
Moon Knight (Avatar of Khonshu) <-- Moon Knight (Marc Spector)
Thor (Mighty Thor) <-- Thor (Goddess of Thunder)

Round 7 - One More Time to Fill the Chains
Big Wheel (Jackson Weele) <-- Rhino (Classic)
Electro (Francine Frye) <-- Scorpion (Classic)
Gamora (Deadliest Woman) <-- Gamora (Awesome Mix Vol. 2)
Gargantos (Multiverse of Madness) <-- Elsa Bloodstone (Monster Hunter)
Havok (Classic) <-- Polaris (Lorna Dane)
Heimdall (The Gatekeeper) <-- Sam Wilson (Captain America)
Ronan (The Accuser) <-- Drax (The Destroyer)
Shang-Chi (Origin) <-- Iron Fist (Danny Reed)
Star-Lord (Awesome Mix Vol. 2) <-- Star-Lord (Legendary Outlaw)
Thanos (Mad Titan) <-- Thanos (Endgame)
The Hulk (Bruce Banner) <-- The Hulk (Totally Awesome) / The Hulk (The Main Event)
Captain America (Infinity War) <-- Captain America (Worthy) / Winter Soldier (Bucky Barnes)
Chasm (Ben Reilly) <-- Spider-Man 2099 (Miguel O’Hara)
Doctor Octopus (Classic) <-- Doc Ock (No Way Home)
Sersi (Eternals) <-- Black Knight (Dane Whitman)
Spider-Man (Peter Parker) <-- Vulture (Adrian Toomes) / Spider-Man (Oscorp)

Likely to stay as they are

Self feeders already in place and the obvious enough connections that I can not imagine a better feeder thematically
Adam Warlock (Infinity Watch) <-- Mantis (Guardians of the Galaxy)
Black Bolt (Inhuman King) <-- Medusa (Inhuman Queen)
Black Panther (Civil War) <-- Black Panther (King of Wakanda)
Black Widow (Natasha Romanoff) <-- Black Widow (Infinity War)
Captain America (First Avenger) <-- Peggy Carter (Captain America)
Captain Marvel (Galactic Warrior) <-- Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers) / Talos (Skrull Warlord) would fit as a secondary
Doctor Doom (God Emperor) <-- Invisible Woman (Classic)
Doctor Strange (Sorcerer Supreme) <-- Mordo (Master of the Mystical Arts)
Gambit (Classic) <-- Rogue (Classic)
Ghost Rider (Robbie Reyes) <-- Ghost Rider (Johnny Blaze)
Iceman (Bobby Drake) <-- Iceman (All New X-Men)
Professor X (Classic) <-- Professor X (Charles Xavier)
Spider-Man (Back in Black) <-- Spider-Man (Infinity War) / Venom (Agent Venom)
Wolverine (Old Man Logan) <-- Wolverine (X-Force) / Sabertooth (Victor Creed)

Asgardian/Godlike

I think all the Asgardians could probably be mixed and matched to some degree
Beta Ray Bill (Korbinite Cyborg) <-- Throg (Puddlegulp)
Thor (Gladiator) <-- Valkyrie (Asgardian Warrior)
Hela (Goddess of Death) <-- Magik (Classic) or Hellcat (Patsy Walker) for the pun work

Intergalactic

Silver Surfer (Skyrider) <-- Mr. Fantastic (Reed Richards), or maybe Nova

Mutants

Like the Asgardians, most of the X people could be mixed and matched to some degree
Apocalypse (Classic) <-- Beast (Age of Apocalypse)
Archangel (Classic) <-- Nightcrawler (Classic)
Mister Sinister (Nathaniel Essex) <-- Blob (Modern)
Onslaught (Psionic Entity) <-- Legion (David Haller) / Gorr (The God Butcher)

Spider-Verse

Spider people and Spidey Rogues could all probably be mixed and matched quite a bit
Green Goblin (Norman Osborn) <-- Any Spidey Villain

Other Heroes

Jessica Jones (Alias Investigations) <-- Luke Cage (Power Man)
Scarlet Witch (WandaVision) <-- Wiccan (Billy Kaplan) / Hulkling (Dorrek VIII)
The Hulk (Immortal) <-- Red Hulk (Thunderbolt Ross)
Yelena Belova (Black Widow) <-- Red Guardian (Alexei Shostakov) / Kate Bishop (Hawkeye)

Other Villains

Ultron (Age of Ultron) <-- Mockingbird (Bobbi Morse) / Gertrude Yorkes (Runaways)

Inhuman (& MCU KK)
updated or unlikely to change

WilliamK1983

Great topic!

I've been thinking a lot about the different possibilities since the first update to feeders with the 3/5 Emma release. The only preference I have is that if there's a 3*, 4*, and 5* version of a character then the 3* should feed the 4* which feeds the 5*. It just makes sense to streamline it that way.

A potential problem arising from this down the road would be a 4* currently in the game getting a 3/5 version released. For example, America Chavez gets a 3/5, but she's already a feeder to 5* JJ bringing us right back to where we are now with feeders needing an update to get streamlined. Same problem with a current 3/5 that doesn't have a 4* version currently. If a 4* gets released, that could mess up the streamline as well since the 3* would already be a feeder and the 5* may or may not be fed from a different 4* already. So maybe the streamline could be implemented with the characters we currently have in the game and not follow the streamline with new releases.

Regarding themes/relationships needed to connect feeders, I'm neutral. I like your breakdown into different groups/types. It's a nice jump off point for character connections.

Aside from thinking of who would/could/should feed who, I'm dying to find out if double fed 5s officially a thing now. When Deathlock gets released, we'll have three 5s that have two 4* feeders (Jean Grey, Kitty Pride, and Cable). The first shard update with 3/5 Emma's release was when Jean became the first to have two feeders. I kinda figured Jubilee would be assigned a new character to feed in future updates, but obviously it hasn't happened. Maybe it still will, I have no idea, especially since two more 5s have been given double feeders. And I'm honestly not sure how I feel about double fed 5s. It'll be beneficial to every player which is a good thing, but it takes something away from the exclusivity of the 5* tier.

I started playing right around the time of shardmas 2.0, so I'm pretty excited about what lies ahead. I'm looking at a pretty good windfall from this. I got every 4* champed(highest lvl 316) so it's a cover and 500 shards max. That will do wonders for speeding up my 5* progress. I got all the 5*s rostered, but they range anywhere from champed(6) to a single cover(9). So the timing of this is perfect!

Edit: pay no mind to the couple of lines in italics. Not sure why it's like that, maybe some kind of punctuation alert or something idk, it just appeared that way.

jsmjsmjsm00

Who are the two kitty feeders?

dianetics

Kamala Khan (Origin) <-- Lockjaw (Royal Bulldog)

Kamala Khan (Origin) is not an inhuman.

WilliamK1983

@jsmjsmjsm00 said:
Who are the two kitty feeders?

Doop and Kate Pryde.

rainkingucd

@dianetics said:

Kamala Khan (Origin) <-- Lockjaw (Royal Bulldog)

Kamala Khan (Origin) is not an inhuman.

Totally. Good callout, and I added another feeder option to stay MCU only. Within the MCU, there are not a lot of connections to make as a feeder (except the obvious: Captain Marvel, but then it kind of breaks the Carol Danvers chain from 2-->5. Maybe Monica Rambeau when The Marvels drops). Within the comics, Lockjaw made the most sense (Lockjaw's cover!).

I took some liberties on the groupings, blending the MCU & Comic Lore. Sometimes the game is strictly MCU connections (Rescue is not part of Team IM), sometimes it is a bit more fluid (Ultron & Yorkes, iShulk & Shulk Origins, Hela & Magik).

@WilliamK1983
Aside from thinking of who would/could/should feed who, I'm dying to find out if double fed 5s officially a thing now.

I'm curious as well. I vaguely recall a comment from Lakestone or IceIX that it was not the plan and this was temporary, but I can't find it so I may be wrong. For Jean Grey and Cable, it could be temporary as both are double fed as part of updates. If they revamp all the feeders, 4* Cyclops could feed 5* Cyke, and Jubilee could just fade away. But with Kitty Pryde getting the Kate Pryde feeder as part of a BCS update, and then Doop launching with Kitty, it seems like Double Feeders may be a thing going forward.

ThaRoadWarrior

Something to consider about a character feeding itself mechanically. Imagine you go 2* Wolverine->3* Wolverine ->4* Wolverine -> 5* Wolverine. Those characters are all mutually exclusive on a team (this is the case for most of those chains, barring a few exceptions like Ghost Rider), so in a world where they are your best character at every tier, you'll not be able to play them together. Your mileage may vary on how much that matters to you - it certainly matters less if you have plenty of champs, so it's sort of a very specific issue that will affect a very small piece of the population for probably a short span of their playing life.

dianetics

Thematically and logically it makes sense for a toon to feed themselves upwards though.
It also makes selecting your targets to level easier in the long run.
Wolverine should feed himself. Characters who do not appear in every tier are different though.
Say 3* Dr Strange, he should feed Mordo (which he does) since there is no 4* Dr Strange, and Mordo feeds 5* Dr Strange.
You really do not want to have to get out of the game and check some spreadsheet to try and figure out who feeds who.

ThaRoadWarrior

I don't disagree that logically it should work that way. I think the decision whenever it happened in the game to have certain characters mechanically work better with wildly unthematically linked characters (Thanos/Panther etc) really separates the types of players the game has out into "people who want characters with fictional synergy to work well together" and "people who want to find non-obvious mechanical synergy without regard for thematics." It sort of puts the people who expect this character to feed themselves or a related character into one spot, wanting the tree to be set up a certain way, and other people caring a bit less about that I imagine.

WilliamK1983

@rainkingucd said:

@dianetics said:

Kamala Khan (Origin) <-- Lockjaw (Royal Bulldog)

Kamala Khan (Origin) is not an inhuman.

Totally. Good callout, and I added another feeder option to stay MCU only. Within the MCU, there are not a lot of connections to make as a feeder (except the obvious: Captain Marvel, but then it kind of breaks the Carol Danvers chain from 2-->5. Maybe Monica Rambeau when The Marvels drops). Within the comics, Lockjaw made the most sense (Lockjaw's cover!).

I took some liberties on the groupings, blending the MCU & Comic Lore. Sometimes the game is strictly MCU connections (Rescue is not part of Team IM), sometimes it is a bit more fluid (Ultron & Yorkes, iShulk & Shulk Origins, Hela & Magik).

@WilliamK1983
Aside from thinking of who would/could/should feed who, I'm dying to find out if double fed 5s officially a thing now.

I'm curious as well. I vaguely recall a comment from Lakestone or IceIX that it was not the plan and this was temporary, but I can't find it so I may be wrong. For Jean Grey and Cable, it could be temporary as both are double fed as part of updates. If they revamp all the feeders, 4* Cyclops could feed 5* Cyke, and Jubilee could just fade away. But with Kitty Pryde getting the Kate Pryde feeder as part of a BCS update, and then Doop launching with Kitty, it seems like Double Feeders may be a thing going forward.

Yea I sorta remember lakestone or lcelx saying that it wasn't the plan, but I swear one of em also said the opposite so idk what to think. Making an educated guess with the available info, I'd say it looks like double fed 5*s is on its way.

AlexR

I think these are very likely to happen:

Monica Rambeau -> Abigail Brand
Spider-Woman or Prowler --> Big Wheel
Silk or Spidey 2099 --> Chasm
Karnak -> Crystal
4* Elektra -> Elektra
Lockjaw -> 5* Kamala Khan
Polaris -> 5* Magneto
4* Moon Knight -> 5* Moon Knight
X-23 or Sabretooth -> Samurai Daken
4* Black Knight -> Sersi
Iron Fist -> Shang Chi

The question then is whether we're just adding new ones or changing existing ones for better fits/to align unbroken feeding chains. (where 4* Thanos gets to feed 5* Thanos and such). It makes the most sense and is pleasingly consistent.

C4ge --> Jessica Jones, America --> Gargantos.
G4mora -> 5* Gamora, 4* Thanos to 5* Thanos.
4* Starlord -> 5* Starlord, Drax --> Ronan.
4* Jane Foster Thor -> 5* Jane Foster Thor, Jubilee --> 5* Storm.
4* Carnage --> 5* Carnage, Doc Ock --> 5* Doc Ock, Scorpion --> Electro,
4* Loki --> 5* Loki, MEHulk -> Heimdall.
4* Cyclops -> 5* Cyclops.
4* Deadpool -> 5* Deadpool (in addition as a secondary feeder; no actual change unless Oscorp Spidey gets Big Wheel in exchange)

If we aren't changing existing ones, then Nebula/4* Starlord probably go to 5* Gamora/Ronan in some combination instead. And I guess we could slap a 4* Venom variant on Gargantos (extraterrestrial tentacle-y things; probably the best you'll get if America is off the table.) and go with Worthy Cap for 5* Jane Foster?

Idk what to do with Odin though. Maybe Juggs? Idk. Or Gorr and give Juggs to Onslaught, if we're changing stuff around. Or Worthy Cap (who is worthy as defined by Odin) if 5* Jane goes to 4* Jane. Orrrr Nick Fury: from one grumpy eyepatch father/mentor to another, lol. Odin's a bit of a wildcard.

Sekilicious

I like the list. Most seem pretty reasonable. The best thing about it is I have everything except Black Knight ready to go. Moonknight and Electra seem like obvious locks. Chasm is kinda a wild-card as Spider-Man Oscorp or any of the Venoms might be a possibilities. I expect the older 5s will get double feeders at some point. As for switching feeders I wonder if that will be a priority or one offs for popular 5s. I too am hoping the list becomes more streamlined.

DAZ0273

If we are doing MCU then Kate Bishop could double feed Yelena.

ThaRoadWarrior

Hawkeye (ronin) could similarly feed Yelena and not have to change KB.

What’s the Juggernaut/Odin connection? I guess I don’t know the storyline for the 4* juggernaut we have.

DAZ0273

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
Hawkeye (ronin) could similarly feed Yelena and not have to change KB

I think Kate though shared the more iconic screen time with Yelena and is a future Young Avengers team mate. That said - anybody from the upcoming Thunderbolts line-up could work too from Winter Soldier to Ghost.

Oh and yes - I am looking for Yelena covers...

BriMan2222

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
Hawkeye (ronin) could similarly feed Yelena and not have to change KB.

What’s the Juggernaut/Odin connection? I guess I don’t know the storyline for the 4* juggernaut we have.

The juggernaut we have in game is juggernaut possesed by some sort of asgardian god. I forget exactly how the story line goes, but it was something along the lines of an asgardian god imbued his soul and the souls of his soldiers into hammers and then uses those hammers to possess several marvel heroes and villains in an attempt to get revenge on Odin who vanquished them.

DAZ0273

The story is as terrible as it sounds too!

MegaBee

@DAZ0273 said:
The story is as terrible as it sounds too!

It's "Fear Itself" if anyone wants to read it for themselves. It really is terrible.

Godzillafan67

@DAZ0273 said:
If we are doing MCU then Kate Bishop could double feed Yelena.

Double feed? Are you counting the mac & cheese and hot sauce separately?

rainkingucd

@AlexR said:
Polaris -> 5* Magneto
The question then is whether we're just adding new ones or changing existing ones for better fits/to align unbroken feeding chains. (where 4* Thanos gets to feed 5* Thanos and such). It makes the most sense and is pleasingly consistent.

Idk what to do with Odin though. Maybe Juggs? Idk. Or Gorr and give Juggs to Onslaught, if we're changing stuff around. Or Worthy Cap (who is worthy as defined by Odin) if 5* Jane goes to 4* Jane. Orrrr Nick Fury: from one grumpy eyepatch father/mentor to another, lol. Odin's a bit of a wildcard.

I get the sense that stuff will be changed around in the end. On that basis, I think Polaris goes to Havok over Magneto. For Odin, I think it has to be Gorr or Juggs, but then I am stuck on Onslaught. Professor X is the most logical, but I don't see him moving away from feeding 5* Prof.

Funnily enough, I never even considered Kingpin (Wilson Fisk) --> Kingpin (Spider-Verse). Even though it would be Kingpin to Kingpin like the other chains, I basically forgot about both of them to some degree

ThaRoadWarrior

Onslaught IS a tough one - seems like a 4* Franklin Richards could get introduced to do it, though I'm sure a lot of people would prefer he be a 5*.