**** She-Hulk (Origin) ****

IceIX

KGB said:

P.S. The extra damage from her Red isn't a good deal. If you have 18 Red, you get 9*9=81% extra damage but lose the extra 9 Red. That's a worse deal that just being able to fire Red 2x in a row. It's only a good deal if you are desperate for extra damage 'now' but in general you should fire the power as soon as you reach 9 Red.

This is true on both fronts. It's best fired for AP/Damage at 9 AP. As well, if you have 18+, you were better off firing it for pure damage at 9 then 18. However, when compared to a lot of the other AoE abilities, this one is relatively low in cost compared to them, so it's usable in a larger sort of limbo area where you'd be saving for a second hit.

Easiest comparison would be Thor (Modern)'s Call the Storm (I know, 3-Star compared to 4, but very similar damage profiles). Thor can use his at 14, then at 28. She-Hulk can use hers at 9-27 and get usage out of it while Thor is doing nothing with Green at 15-27 AP.

Weirdnerd2009

The vault contents say that the 3*Iron man is model 35, not model 40

CharlieLima

IceIX said:

KGB said:

P.S. The extra damage from her Red isn't a good deal. If you have 18 Red, you get 9*9=81% extra damage but lose the extra 9 Red. That's a worse deal that just being able to fire Red 2x in a row. It's only a good deal if you are desperate for extra damage 'now' but in general you should fire the power as soon as you reach 9 Red.

This is true on both fronts. It's best fired for AP/Damage at 9 AP. As well, if you have 18+, you were better off firing it for pure damage at 9 then 18. However, when compared to a lot of the other AoE abilities, this one is relatively low in cost compared to them, so it's usable in a larger sort of limbo area where you'd be saving for a second hit.

Easiest comparison would be Thor (Modern)'s Call the Storm (I know, 3-Star compared to 4, but very similar damage profiles). Thor can use his at 14, then at 28. She-Hulk can use hers at 9-27 and get usage out of it while Thor is doing nothing with Green at 15-27 AP.

Great breakdown for me!

wymtime

CharlieLima said:

IceIX said:

KGB said:

P.S. The extra damage from her Red isn't a good deal. If you have 18 Red, you get 9*9=81% extra damage but lose the extra 9 Red. That's a worse deal that just being able to fire Red 2x in a row. It's only a good deal if you are desperate for extra damage 'now' but in general you should fire the power as soon as you reach 9 Red.

This is true on both fronts. It's best fired for AP/Damage at 9 AP. As well, if you have 18+, you were better off firing it for pure damage at 9 then 18. However, when compared to a lot of the other AoE abilities, this one is relatively low in cost compared to them, so it's usable in a larger sort of limbo area where you'd be saving for a second hit.

Easiest comparison would be Thor (Modern)'s Call the Storm (I know, 3-Star compared to 4, but very similar damage profiles). Thor can use his at 14, then at 28. She-Hulk can use hers at 9-27 and get usage out of it while Thor is doing nothing with Green at 15-27 AP.

Great breakdown for me!

A better comparison is Hulkbuster red.  It does 630 damage per red AP drained.  At 9 AP this is 5670 damage.  At 30 it is 18900 damage.

she hulk at 9 AP does 3097+1626 to the team for a total of 6348 damage.  At 30 AP she does 9105 direct damage and 4780 tram damage for a total of 19340 damage.  She will do more overall damage than Hulkbuster but it will be split between team and direct damage

KGB

IceIX said:

KGB said:

P.S. The extra damage from her Red isn't a good deal. If you have 18 Red, you get 9*9=81% extra damage but lose the extra 9 Red. That's a worse deal that just being able to fire Red 2x in a row. It's only a good deal if you are desperate for extra damage 'now' but in general you should fire the power as soon as you reach 9 Red.

This is true on both fronts. It's best fired for AP/Damage at 9 AP. As well, if you have 18+, you were better off firing it for pure damage at 9 then 18. However, when compared to a lot of the other AoE abilities, this one is relatively low in cost compared to them, so it's usable in a larger sort of limbo area where you'd be saving for a second hit.

Easiest comparison would be Thor (Modern)'s Call the Storm (I know, 3-Star compared to 4, but very similar damage profiles). Thor can use his at 14, then at 28. She-Hulk can use hers at 9-27 and get usage out of it while Thor is doing nothing with Green at 15-27 AP.

The better comparison is Red Hulk's green AOE.

You fire it at 9 Green and it does 2789 team damage. Or you fire at 18 and it does 7333 damage and drains all Green AP.

So he does 8367 total damage at 9 Green and 21999 at 18 Green AP. But the difference is that if you fire anytime between 10-17, he doesn't drain his Green so if you are desperate (ie about to die or eat a nuke) you can fire before 18 green with the caveat you do less damage (2 fires at 9 < 1 fire at 18).

I think Red Hulks power works better than hers because of the fact you get better damage if you wait longer and don't suffer the AP drain between 10-17. Then factor in that he does more damage than her (at 9 she only does 7975). He's a 4 year old character now, you'd think she would do at least the equivalent damage or better.

KGB

IceIX

She-Hulk outdamages Red Hulk at 10-17 AP, then again outdamages at 25-30. It's true that Red Hulk has the advantage if he decides to toss out the ability at 17 (since he keeps the other 8), but even then, She-Hulk is only losing ~450 damage per enemy at that point.

It's true there are situationally useful positions like being at that 17 and *needing* to use it now, and again at another 9, but I'd wager hitting harder faster happens more often than the edge cases where you need to spend some to save some for another second weaker hit.

HoundofShadow

The next 5* releases on August 28. Do top players in top alliances get new 4* released covered to 280 within the first run? It feels like the "no retroactive reward policy" affects only the top of the top.

fight4thedream

HoundofShadow said:

The next 5* releases on August 28. Do top players in top alliances get new 4* released covered to 280 within the first run? It feels like the "no retroactive reward policy" affects only the top of the top.

They are probably just covering all their bases just in case things don't happen quite as planned or if there is a potential outlier who manages to gain that many covers either through gameplay and/or through in-game purchases. 

KGB

IceIX said:

She-Hulk outdamages Red Hulk at 10-17 AP, then again outdamages at 25-30. It's true that Red Hulk has the advantage if he decides to toss out the ability at 17 (since he keeps the other 8), but even then, She-Hulk is only losing ~450 damage per enemy at that point.

It's true there are situationally useful positions like being at that 17 and *needing* to use it now, and again at another 9, but I'd wager hitting harder faster happens more often than the edge cases where you need to spend some to save some for another second weaker hit.

Nice chart!

My only quibble is that at 27+ AP, Red Hulk out damages her again because he can fire a 3rd time at that point (either 9+9+9 or 18+9).  So her real out damage part is 10-17 and 25-26. In truth though, very very few matches ever go long enough that you collect more than 18 AP in a single color (minus obvious self accelerate characters like Shang or even Red Hulk himself).

KGB

JangoLore

YEET!  

HoundofShadow

@fight4thedream I was curious if top players could do that. I understand they could champ 4* on their first run, but not sure if it's possible to hit 280 that quickly. I'm not sure if there are players who will whale to get 370 4* though. It's highly unlikely but it will be eye-opening.

Hammer3001

After watching the first episode of She-Hulk;

I believe we’re getting a Smart Hulk.
Spoilers:

Bruce (as Smart Hulk) says “My door is always open.” after they train together.

My guess is we’ll get a leaping power, a 5-star thunderclap & boulder toss.

**Mod note: Please be considerate of others and use the spoiler tag function. - fight4thedream

JHawkInc

After watching the first episode of She-Hulk:

I agree, Smart Hulk seems pretty obvious. Kind of a bummer, because I would have rather had She-Hulk as a 5-star, especially for her own show, but part of me feels like Smart Hulk makes more sense as a 5 himself than as a 4, even though we have Banner/Immortal as 5's and only Main Event as a 4, since neither 5 represents MCU Hulk.

Honestly, if I could wave a magic wand, I'd make Chasm a 4, both She-Hulk and Smart-Hulk as 5's, and have a proper Ben Reilly 5-star at some other point in time (even if it means waiting a while). Wouldn't surprise me if there are multiple factors that led to this line-up, what Marvel wants to advertise, scheduling (my change kinda makes things messy for trying to save the Hulks for She-Hulk's show debut), etc, but this handful of releases just isn't quite hitting the mark for me.

Vhailorx

She seems decidedly meh overall, though she will definitely have use as a red/green battery and protect tile spammed when used with 5*s.

Also, add me to the list of people a little disappointed that she isn't a 5*

dianetics

I’m not too keen on this. I think I prefer what the 3* version does better, and that one still has some uses (although not too frequent).
 There are better tile destruction choices and better damage choices. Looking pretty doa to me but we’ll see once I get to use her for a bit.

Bad

The 3* version destroys enemy AP and the 4* enemy protects.
However her 4* blue offers a really interesting support as the protects help to decrease damage before existing, she starts the battle with the cd, and finally it helps with 2 green and red.
As always these new 4*s really can help new players with all the available future free covers available for a short time.
About her being a 4* and not a 5*, remember 4* players are predominant, I don't think that it was a random choice.

Aueio

She absolute sucks against Yelena in the opening node of Welcome To SHIELD. Or maybe Yelena is just a formidable opponent generally.

wymtime

can I just say having She Hulk face Yelena who is a massive hard counter to she Hulk is not a good way to show her off in shield training.  With all of She-Hulks powers costing 8-9 AP Yelena keeps draining my AP, doing damage and producing strong strike tiles.

this node should allow She-Hulk to shine not destroy she-hulk

stef_focus

Regarding Welcome to Shield, I agree with above posters that Yelena is not a suitable opponent to make people enthusiastic about She-Hulk. Also: *Wasp*? We have to use tinykitty _Wasp_ to do the rightmost nodes?? Was there supposed to be a character re-balance for Wasp that got lost in the shuffle somehow???
What I meant to say was: "Also, having a suboptimal 5* with no synergy as the mandated extra seems like a choice that is not going to do any favors for the She-Hulk experience people are going to have."

Scorpion201

Not a very good job show casing the newest 4 star she hulk, Show casing she hulk or the newest 4 needs to be done against another 4 not 5 star.. too much of a power creep.