shardwick said: It is a mode. It's effectively giving people loaned characters to play in only that mode of play. So how exactly would you take a loaned character and then be able to roster them for free and then play them in other parts of the game? I'm not following your logic.
Chirus said: shardwick said: It is a mode. It's effectively giving people loaned characters to play in only that mode of play. So how exactly would you take a loaned character and then be able to roster them for free and then play them in other parts of the game? I'm not following your logic. I don't think it takes following all of those steps to necessarily deflate interest in a game. If you've ever played a video game that allowed for a "god mode", that is, allow for infinite ammo, infinite HP, and one-shot kills, it feels fun to roll over parts of the game that were once very difficult and possibly frustrating, but the novelty of the god mode quickly dissipates once you have complete access to everything and the game is no longer challenging. I say this example, not to point out that having a sandbox mode is akin to god mode in that you own all heroes and can use them in every mode. But rather to illustrate that once you've removed one of the largest incentives of playing this game, it can very quickly make the game boring. You don't need to necessarily roster any of the characters if you can play them at any point in time. Functionally, they're identical outside of a superficial nomenclature difference. I think the feeling of competing against human players is a valid criticism of the original post. It's not possible to replicate that in a sandbox environment and this is one of the reasons why I think proxies did not bankrupt games like MTG. But when there is no longer a strong incentive to collect characters you don't need to collect, outside of the superficial classification of "ownership" in a digital game where you literally own none of those items, it's hard to argue that you actually have less incentive to play the game than before, even though doubtless there will still be people who play the game. It'll just be fewer than normal. I completely recognize the value and benefit that sandbox mode would bring, but I also agree that making the whole game freely accessible to all players would hurt the game more than help it, monetization-wise.
shardwick said: Chirus said: shardwick said: It is a mode. It's effectively giving people loaned characters to play in only that mode of play. So how exactly would you take a loaned character and then be able to roster them for free and then play them in other parts of the game? I'm not following your logic. I don't think it takes following all of those steps to necessarily deflate interest in a game. If you've ever played a video game that allowed for a "god mode", that is, allow for infinite ammo, infinite HP, and one-shot kills, it feels fun to roll over parts of the game that were once very difficult and possibly frustrating, but the novelty of the god mode quickly dissipates once you have complete access to everything and the game is no longer challenging. I say this example, not to point out that having a sandbox mode is akin to god mode in that you own all heroes and can use them in every mode. But rather to illustrate that once you've removed one of the largest incentives of playing this game, it can very quickly make the game boring. You don't need to necessarily roster any of the characters if you can play them at any point in time. Functionally, they're identical outside of a superficial nomenclature difference. I think the feeling of competing against human players is a valid criticism of the original post. It's not possible to replicate that in a sandbox environment and this is one of the reasons why I think proxies did not bankrupt games like MTG. But when there is no longer a strong incentive to collect characters you don't need to collect, outside of the superficial classification of "ownership" in a digital game where you literally own none of those items, it's hard to argue that you actually have less incentive to play the game than before, even though doubtless there will still be people who play the game. It'll just be fewer than normal. I completely recognize the value and benefit that sandbox mode would bring, but I also agree that making the whole game freely accessible to all players would hurt the game more than help it, monetization-wise. You aren't making the whole game accessible. Players would still need to roster those characters to play them in pve and pvp. And a training mode in a game has never given me less incentive to play a game. When I couldn't repeatedly pull off a dragon punch in Street Fighter 2 I went into the training mode and practiced it until I got better at it. At no point did I ever say "I can pull off a dragon punch now so I no longer need to play this game anymore." No, I went back into the other modes and played them and I spent less time using the training mode.
Chirus said: shardwick said: Chirus said: shardwick said: It is a mode. It's effectively giving people loaned characters to play in only that mode of play. So how exactly would you take a loaned character and then be able to roster them for free and then play them in other parts of the game? I'm not following your logic. I don't think it takes following all of those steps to necessarily deflate interest in a game. If you've ever played a video game that allowed for a "god mode", that is, allow for infinite ammo, infinite HP, and one-shot kills, it feels fun to roll over parts of the game that were once very difficult and possibly frustrating, but the novelty of the god mode quickly dissipates once you have complete access to everything and the game is no longer challenging. I say this example, not to point out that having a sandbox mode is akin to god mode in that you own all heroes and can use them in every mode. But rather to illustrate that once you've removed one of the largest incentives of playing this game, it can very quickly make the game boring. You don't need to necessarily roster any of the characters if you can play them at any point in time. Functionally, they're identical outside of a superficial nomenclature difference. I think the feeling of competing against human players is a valid criticism of the original post. It's not possible to replicate that in a sandbox environment and this is one of the reasons why I think proxies did not bankrupt games like MTG. But when there is no longer a strong incentive to collect characters you don't need to collect, outside of the superficial classification of "ownership" in a digital game where you literally own none of those items, it's hard to argue that you actually have less incentive to play the game than before, even though doubtless there will still be people who play the game. It'll just be fewer than normal. I completely recognize the value and benefit that sandbox mode would bring, but I also agree that making the whole game freely accessible to all players would hurt the game more than help it, monetization-wise. You aren't making the whole game accessible. Players would still need to roster those characters to play them in pve and pvp. And a training mode in a game has never given me less incentive to play a game. When I couldn't repeatedly pull off a dragon punch in Street Fighter 2 I went into the training mode and practiced it until I got better at it. At no point did I ever say "I can pull off a dragon punch now so I no longer need to play this game anymore." No, I went back into the other modes and played them and I spent less time using the training mode. Yeah, I hesitated to compare this game to a fighting game at first. It definitely crossed my mind though because it's probably the most popular video game genre to include a sandbox or training mode almost universally. Only poorly designed fighting games don't include a practice arena. But there's just a lot different between the mechanisms, experiences, and really the reward incentives between this game and a fighting game. In the fighting game, you practice honing mechanical skills against live opponents. There are twitch skills, timing, and button inputs, all things that do not cheapen but rather enhance your experience in the actual playing field because your opponents will presumably be doing the same. And arguably the skill levels of the opponents you face will climb as you climb the ladder as well. These elements, which make the sandbox almost necessary for fighting games in order to lower the barrier of entry to newcomers, simply do not apply to MPQ because a sandbox is not as crucial to learning the primary mechanisms of this game or for a beginner to jump in and begin competing. Now, I still think there's some value in being able to "test out" certain characters in this game because it's just hard to know how well or how poorly heroes synergize with others, even if they have keywords that suggest synergies. And on the opposite side of this, it would be nice to know how big of a threat those heroes would be to face, as well as what team comps would effectively counter them (assuming they are a threat worth the research). That said, this problem has a rather binary solution. Once you have a basic understanding of how the mechanisms work, and how well it synergizes with other heroes, in addition to the counters to said heroes, the skill ceiling has already been reached. I think what's being overlooked here is that the grid where you make matches and test out hero abilities isn't the only part of this game that people "play". Unlike fighting games, the "collecting meta" is a very real part of "play" in this game that is simply not present in fighting games. And when they are present (a la smash bros figurines), the game makes sure there's no easy way to have access to all of them at the same time. If you've played this game for any serious amount of time, you should be aware of the heated debates on whether newcomers should "hoard or spend". And opening packs to see if you've unlocked the crucial 13th cover is a significant dopamine hit that comprises a core part of the play experience. By removing the need to collect heroes, a very real element of this game has also been removed. I'm not going to make claims as to whether you personally would continue playing this game or not if you had access to every hero for free. I'm pretty sure you would continue to play since you said you would. But you cannot similarly claim that everyone who plays this game also plays it for the exact same reasons you do. And some do, in fact, play to chase after certain collection goals. And once that has been achieved (rather permanently), they will naturally lose interest in the game. It's just really hard to argue that removing play elements of the game wouldn't make the game less compelling to play for at least some portion of the player base. And you're not adding an incentive since this will be unlocked for free for all players. You are adding a fun "mode", but by itself, it would not serve as an incentive as much as remove one. This is why I think rather than unlocking all characters permanently at all times, unlocking a few of the characters temporarily, and then featuring them in a store is a better solution to the "sandbox mode" idea. It just works better within the context of this game.
HoundofShadow said: After reading the comments and before I reply, I want to reiterate and limit the discussion of training mode to features that I mentioned because this is the typical desired training mode. I forgot to mention that training mode is accessible to all players 24/7 for free. Again, I assume everyone expect training mode to be a permanent feature instead of a temporary feature.@JimboJambo As for letting your kids play MPQ, you can always get it downloaded in another device to teach them. Besides, there are updated tutorials for beginners of MPQ in the game. Other than that, this is a little hard to counter because you are using an emotional appeal for training mode. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like it will make you spend more on the game.@Daredevil217 As for comparing training mode to trying out one car everyday at a car dealership every day, I don't think they allow you to try out the car for 24/7 or give you 24/7 access to try out cars anytime you want without any payment. Neither would they allow you to try out different models of cars every day for one month or more for free. At best, you could do it (try different cars for a while, not for 24/7). If you want do it everyday, I'm sure they will start blacklisting you. As for getting sandboxed accounts, players could do it but it's troublesome to do it because they have to switch accounts back and forth. For players with sandboxed accounts who still use their original account to play, they have different motivating factor, such as being in a top alliances or being part of the LINE group to make them play, or they are already seasoned players.Next, this is a gacha game. The dev want players to spend. That's why players complain about dilution, never being able catch up and having to worry about roster slot cost. It's all deliberately designed to make players feel that they need to play everyday to catch up. Players don't want to spend a lot to catch up. They don't want to wait 5-10 years to champ all 5*. A 24/7 training mode with access to all characters champed will magically solve all these problems. Yes, you can't bring them to pvps or pves. However, once you have access to all champed characters and you simply want to try out different teams, you'll be stuck in that mode, unless you are in some competitive alliances. A training mode is no different from unlocking the entire game without spending. Players are tired of seeing Mindless Ones, Sentry and DA in pves. They are also tired of seeing the same meta or boosted teams in pvps. Training mode changes that. You can pick and choose any opponents that you want. Logically, there are at least 17 million combination of enemy teams that players can choose in training mode. With over 70+ 5* and over 120 4* to choose from, your typical players would be stuck in this mode for months and or even years without needing to spend.Training mode makes (non-competitive) players less likely to spend and more likely to quit because there are zero pressure to catch up. So far, I don't see anyone saying that training mode will make them want to spend more. As a matter of fact, they expect it to be free. How does Training Mode improve spending and extend the longevity of MPQ? It doesn't. If you think training mode will improve spending and increase revenues, I'll like to hear how it is possible.