**** Gorr (The God Butcher) ****

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  • TheRiddler
    TheRiddler Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
    edited July 2022
    Am I understanding the mechanic correctly that the purple passive in terms of the match damage aspect at max level absorbs 72 damage per tile converted and splits that amongst the 7 colors of match damage. So would boost match damage in each color by 10? Is that correct.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    R4G, BRB and Polaris got butchered by Gorr, which is awesome, thematically. What do you get? Rabbit and horse meat garnished with plant roots.

    For years, there were players asking for R4G's nerf. Here it is. This should be a pretty effective counter. Of course, players can still + 4 blue aps and match blue to stun him, but it's a huge tradeoff. 

    The Retribution-like effect is a little weak but I guess it's a tradeoff for dealing 20% of enemy max health damage, which is significant for a 4*. It's between 60-80k for beefier enemies and 40k for others in SCL 10. 9ap for 40-80k damage is probably the highest damage/ap for 4* land, beaten by only Penance Stare. And it's even higher than what many 5* characters can deal.  :D

    Defensive-wise, he can reduce all form of enemy damage by up to 50% and by 20% at the start of the game. It will be interesting if the dev shares usage for BRB/Polaris and R4G/Polaris in his pvp.
  • TheRiddler
    TheRiddler Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
    R4G, BRB and Polaris got butchered by Gorr, which is awesome, thematically. What do you get? Rabbit and horse meat garnished with plant roots.

    For years, there were players asking for R4G's nerf. Here it is. This should be a pretty effective counter. Of course, players can still + 4 blue aps and match blue to stun him, but it's a huge tradeoff. 

    The Retribution-like effect is a little weak but I guess it's a tradeoff for dealing 20% of enemy max health damage, which is significant for a 4*. It's between 60-80k for beefier enemies and 40k for others in SCL 10. 9ap for 40-80k damage is probably the highest damage/ap for 4* land, beaten by only Penance Stare. And it's even higher than what many 5* characters can deal.  :D

    Defensive-wise, he can reduce all form of enemy damage by up to 50% and by 20% at the start of the game. It will be interesting if the dev shares usage for BRB/Polaris and R4G/Polaris in his pvp.

    Kitty too.

    In a pick-2 who is his partner?
  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,458 Chairperson of the Boards
    I probably shouldn't be, but I'm a little surprised they went with Bale-Gorr and not Comics-Gorr for the character art.

    Anyway, I enjoyed the movie and thought Bale's performance was excellent (as usual). So, good by me.
  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 2,872 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2022
    IceIX said:
    KGB said:
    Vhailorx said:
    Nice artwork.  Did both of his actvie powers cost 9ap in the preview?

    Seems like he is at least as much of a hard counter to grocket as to polaris, but the damage numbers seems comically small on paper.
    Yeah a flat 72 damage per tile even champed at 5 covers for his Purple is just going to make Polaris laugh (never mind a 5* like BRB).

    Even his Black doesn't hit much (432 champed at 5 covers) even with 5 minions on the board for it's cost.

    He's as neutered as Black Knight.

    No way this guy ends the Polaris meta because existing characters like Sabretooth do it while hitting vastly harder. Not to mention anyone currently playing now is going to be drawing like crazy for Thoress who will be 100x more useful in removing Polaris's tiles.

    KGB
    72 per tile, plus the match damage increase he gains from each tile he converts. Remember, he doesn't take Strike tile damage as long as he has Minions, and his Minions are giving him 8-10% damage reduction per Repeater tile.

    Black hits for 432 per minion, then tries to cull, then does damage if it fails to do so. So it's doing up to 2160 in 5 random hits, then culling at 20-25% health, or doing 10-20% damage afterwards. Which for a 4-star means another 1400-2800-ish, more for a 5-Star or high level SCL enemy.

    Talking about drawing for 5-Star Thor is talking about a different meta. If you're in a position that you're max covering a 5-Star, especially a new one, any 4-Star is going to be dying in a few matches anyway just due to match damage differential. Neither Gorr nor Sabretooth can do much against 3K in a single match, much less Shang Chi comboing them, so it's not really a fair comparison.
    Not disagreeing with anything you wrote, but his powers are essentially restricted to stopping Polaris/BRB/R&G since without an opponent putting out those special tiles he doesn't do a whole lot (ie he's very Niche and since he's a god killer it would have been nice if the new Godlike affiliation was used on his Black power in some way, say for Godlike affiliation it did the insta-kill at twice the percentage - so 30%-40% vs 15-20% for non Godlike and double damage on powers vs Godlike). Right now he is Gorr the special tile butcher.

    Blob is probably the best character comparison for him (destroys specials at bottom of board and gains match damage, does damage or heals based on what he destroys) plus has damage reduction. Blob didn't exactly make Polaris disappear in 4* land where I play PvP.

    My point about Thoress was that everyone seems to be saying he is the end of Polaris and yet Thoress is probably a far more likely end to her than he is because even just 1 Blue cover of hers can wreak havoc.

    KGB
  • fight4thedream
    fight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,895 Chairperson of the Boards
    Well this is rather disappointing. 

    Most of the god characters in this game reside in the 5* tier. I don't see how the God Butcher will be able to live up to his moniker when their match damage alone will under normal circumstances be more than enough to down him. 

    At the very least, they should have set his black insta-down ability at 50% as a wink and a nod to people running 5* Thor at half health. Instead, it looks worse than Punisher's Retribution (although admittedly overall it isn't). 

    I am curious why the dev team felt now was a good time to release him when other MCU projects like Shang-Chi, Doctor Strange MoM and the Disney Plus shows only got one character released.  Considering the new dev team's comments on wanting to make affiliations more relevant, I think it would have been far more worthwhile to have kept Gorr on reserve until they revamped affiliations to include a "god" affiliation and then release him as a 5* with his powers doing extra damage to "god" characters and his black and yellow abilities specifically targeting god characters first (and then random if no god character is on the opponent team).

    Instead, it seems they were more interested in dealing with 4* characters not related to Gorr in anyway. If that's true, I would have preferred a 4* Korg (The Revolutionary) to deal with those pesky SAP specialists.  

    I think it's fair to say that this Gorr is no god butcher.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2022
    A lot of Polaris' counters are RNG-based, including Morbius. Thoress is like Sabretooth when dealing with Polaris/R4G. Check my video in Thoress thread where she is paired with Polaris. She's both a counter to and a partner of Polaris. For Gorr, he's not even a partner for Polaris. That's the main difference. 

    Blob also partner well with Polaris because Blob becomes stronger with Polaris/R4G. Initially, I thought he would be a strong counter too. However, his counter to Polaris and her team is RNG based. For Gorr, he's already butchered them at the start of his turn. They will be left with zero strike/protect tile. Zero RNG is involved. And his repeater will prevent Polaris from creating her strike tile on the following turn.

    As for pick-2 in pvp against Polaris/BRB or R4G, you need someone who can be on the offensive. I think Valkyrie could be fun with him. Karnak, Silk and 2099 are also good offensively.

    Thematically, Polaris is godlike in MPQ 4* land. 4* Gorr has butchered the goddess of 4* land. Aren't the dev contractually binded to Marvel's requests? MCOC also released Gorr a few days ago. I guess the ex-dev team and the new dev team look at things differently. I think the ex-dev celebrate most movie release for about 1-2 weeks and this dev team went all out and make it an almost one-month celebration, with a new Boss event to boot.
  • AlexR
    AlexR Posts: 427 Mover and Shaker
    A lot of Polaris' counters are RNG-based, including Morbius. Thoress is like Sabretooth when dealing with Polaris/R4G. Check my video in Thoress thread where she is paired with Polaris. She's both a counter to and a partner of Polaris. For Gorr, he's not even a partner for Polaris. That's the main difference. 

    Blob also partner well with Polaris because Blob becomes stronger with Polaris/R4G. Initially, I thought he would be a strong counter too. However, his counter to Polaris and her team is RNG based. For Gorr, he's already butchered them at the start of his turn. They will be left with zero strike/protect tile. Zero RNG is involved. And his repeater will prevent Polaris from creating her strike tile on the following turn.

    As for pick-2 in pvp against Polaris/BRB or R4G, you need someone who can be on the offensive. I think Valkyrie could be fun with him. Karnak, Silk and 2099 are also good offensively.

    Thematically, Polaris is godlike in MPQ 4* land. 4* Gorr has butchered the goddess of 4* land. Aren't the dev contractually binded to Marvel's requests? MCOC also released Gorr a few days ago. I guess the ex-dev team and the new dev team look at things differently. I think the ex-dev celebrate most movie release for about 1-2 weeks and this dev team went all out and make it an almost one-month celebration, with a new Boss event to boot.
    I appreciate your point of not RNG-based being valuable. However, Sabretooth is not RNG-based. Sure, he may look that way on paper, but in practise he very consistently kills Polaris in about 3 turns and removes the majority of GRocket's strike tiles.
    Source: I'm running Sabretooth basically every pvp against Polaris/GRocket. It is extremely consistent and fast. Sabretooth is pretty much the ultimate Grocket counter: because he doesn't just remove the tiles, he uses GRocket's tiles himself to kill a prioriy target straight away (=Polaris). Furthermore, even when Polaris is dead and the strike tiles are gone, Sabretooth is still useful with his cheap high-damage red. Doubt Gorr will be able to challenge Sabretooth in that regard. 
    However, it might be interesting to see whether Gorr can stop undercovered!BRB/Polaris cold in their tracks. Converting BRB's protect tiles on battle start to completely deny them the AP generation looks fruitful.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2022
    I used Polaris/Sabretooth a lot in my alt account before as well and it's RNG based because there's no guarantee you can match them at the start of turn and his 3x3 destruction is RNG-based as well. There are times where I couldn't down Polaris and AI Polaris ended up downing my Polaris/Sabretooth due to the crazy strike tiles placed on the board. On top of that, Sabretooth is limited to only strike tiles. In terms of efficiency against specifically Polaris/R4G, Sabretooth wins. For an all rounder, Gorr is better. Gorr will simply convert all of BRB's protect tiles to basic tiles at the start of his turn. At best, Polaris gain 1 to 2 green/blue aps for her team before they end their turn. 
  • AlexR
    AlexR Posts: 427 Mover and Shaker

    I used Polaris/Sabretooth a lot in my alt account before as well and it's RNG based because there's no guarantee you can match them at the start of turn and his 3x3 destruction is RNG-based as well. There are times where I couldn't down Polaris and AI Polaris ended up downing my Polaris/Sabretooth due to the crazy strike tiles placed on the board. On top of that, Sabretooth is limited to only strike tiles. In terms of efficiency against specifically Polaris/R4G, Sabretooth wins. For an all rounder, Gorr is better. Gorr will simply convert all of BRB's protect tiles to basic tiles at the start of his turn. At best, Polaris gain 1 to 2 green/blue aps for her team before they end their turn. 
    Ah, but that's Polaris/Sabretooth, not Sabretooth alone. ;) Different things.
    Running Polaris/Sabretooth can be extremely effective and further speeds the battle up. With Polaris/Sabretooth you will usually kill enemy!Polaris in turn 2 even, rather than turn ~3. But it is a double-sided sword to play.
    If you can't kill her right away, enemy!Polaris can use your strike tiles against you just the same. If you want to play it safer, just... don't run your own Polaris with him. ;) Sabretooth by himself together with characters that don't give Polaris tiles to work with works plenty fine as a counter. Your own Polaris is not actually needed for this.
    I was converted to running Polaris/Sabretooth because it is a little faster and I get impatient dealing with them over and over-- but it can get dicey if you can't finish her immediately, absolutely, agreed. But I also run Sabretooth alone vs them a lot, and that's generally the safer, more consistent approach.
     Gorr will simply convert all of BRB's protect tiles to basic tiles at the start of his turn. At best, Polaris gain 1 to 2 green/blue aps for her team before they end their turn. 
    This is what I'm hoping for, yeah!
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2022
    Come to think it, maybe we'll see Polaris/Gorr against Polaris/BRB or R4G. It doesn't hurt to increase Gorr's match damage for free after all. Match opponent's specials and create your own. Let AI Polaris matches your specials and let Gorr removes them the following turn. Rinse and repeat.  
  • rainkingucd
    rainkingucd Posts: 1,241 Chairperson of the Boards
    Will Gor be a feeder?


    Apparently he feeds Onslaught
    huh.  I know he's the 2nd oldest 5* without a feeder, and BCS did say they would have feeders regardless of connection, but I really expected him to feed Odin, as Odin is the only unfed god in the 5* tier (MK has god connections, but he's just the avatar)
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,479 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2022
    I echo @fight4thedream that it is a shame Gorr seems mainly just yet another counter to the SAP users and we already have so many effective ones. Of course he seems decent enough but hey ho.

    It also seems that, by design or not, there has been a conscious effort to restrict Villains to 4* characters during the promotional section of film releases. The only exceptions I can think of are Gargantos and Kingpin (but he was not an MCU release). The fact that characters such as Yellowjacket, Ronan, Hela were released a long while after the movies were done in theatres shows that they certainly developed 5* tie-in villains, just never released them (at the time).
  • UNC_Samurai
    UNC_Samurai Posts: 401 Mover and Shaker
    Well this is rather disappointing. 

    Most of the god characters in this game reside in the 5* tier. I don't see how the God Butcher will be able to live up to his moniker when their match damage alone will under normal circumstances be more than enough to down him. 

    At the very least, they should have set his black insta-down ability at 50% as a wink and a nod to people running 5* Thor at half health. Instead, it looks worse than Punisher's Retribution (although admittedly overall it isn't). 

    I am curious why the dev team felt now was a good time to release him when other MCU projects like Shang-Chi, Doctor Strange MoM and the Disney Plus shows only got one character released.  Considering the new dev team's comments on wanting to make affiliations more relevant, I think it would have been far more worthwhile to have kept Gorr on reserve until they revamped affiliations to include a "god" affiliation and then release him as a 5* with his powers doing extra damage to "god" characters and his black and yellow abilities specifically targeting god characters first (and then random if no god character is on the opponent team).

    Instead, it seems they were more interested in dealing with 4* characters not related to Gorr in anyway. If that's true, I would have preferred a 4* Korg (The Revolutionary) to deal with those pesky SAP specialists.  

    I think it's fair to say that this Gorr is no god butcher.
    So, Gorr the God-Botherer?
  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 2,872 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2022
    And his repeater will prevent Polaris from creating her strike tile on the following turn.

    I don't think so. All his repeater does is protect him from strike damage. Polaris will still place her single strike tile on the board on the next turn.  And of course don't forget, players can drop her Purple down to 3 covers so she only creates 2 tiles when matching which won't trigger his passive.


    In truth, Gorr is going to make 4* PvP even easier than it ever was but not for the reasons people think. What will happen is he will be used against Polaris teams of course but the retal will be one of the easiest ever because he has zero useful powers outside removing special tiles so America/Karnak or America/Colossus etc will be eating Gorr teams endlessly. It should make getting max progression even easier.

    KGB
  • Tiger_Wong
    Tiger_Wong Posts: 1,003 Chairperson of the Boards
    KGB said:
    And his repeater will prevent Polaris from creating her strike tile on the following turn.

    I don't think so. All his repeater does is protect him from strike damage.



    KGB
    And mitigates match damage and ability damage. Pretty much all damage. We’re not even sure how much the damage mitigation will look but here we go with the cart before the horse talk. 

    You guys never learn. 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2022
    Polaris won't create strike tile passively as long as there's any special tile on the board. I'm referring to her green passive, rather than her purple passive in this context.

    The damage mitigation is only 20% and maxed out at 50%. Apart from his purple, I think his black is the most useful ability. If only there's a way I can spam his black. Oh wait. My winfinite of Echo and Modok can do that. But I need something better.
  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,351 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2022
    After looking at the numbers and reading through his powers again, I doubt I will bring him in over morbius.
    His damage is a bit more attractive, but he does less for a 4* overall that I would like.
    He’s certainly not bad, but far too situational to be of value. I’m thinking he is going to suffer the same issues as Abigail.
    He will have some use in the 5* PvP but he probably won’t be that great in PvE.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,479 Chairperson of the Boards
    IceIX said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    It also seems that, by design or not, there has been a conscious effort to restrict Villains to 4* characters during the promotional section of film releases. The only exceptions I can think of are Gargantos and Kingpin (but he was not an MCU release). The fact that characters such as Yellowjacket, Ronan, Hela were released a long while after the movies were done in theatres shows that they certainly developed 5* tie-in villains, just never released them (at the time).
    Nothing so sinister. We wanted to do Mighty Thor and Thor Goddess already exists as a 4-Star. So 5-Star Thor it is. Which necessarily puts Gorr into the 4-Star slot. Unless we wanted to wait another 2 weeks and have a filler 4-Star or *3* movie related characters. The former would feel pretty weird and the latter would likely feel like the movie was overstaying its welcome. Could see it for something like Endgame or Infinity War, but odd to have 3 in a row for "just a Marvel movie"
    Well that dashes that villainous plot!!! Thanks IceIX now can we get a 5* Hypno Hustler? No tie-in necessary!