Make Classic Legendary Tokens look distinct from Latest Legendary Tokens

ThaRoadWarrior

I don't believe there has ever been a Classic token

HoundofShadow

I found the message:

Hi everyone,

Here's rewards update news from the development team. The changes should provide more choice when striving for your most desired heroes and villains!

Demiurge Quote:

"With the introduction of Classic Legends packs, we heard that players wanted greater flexibility in what Legendary packs they were able to redeem. Starting in the next few days, we will be changing rewards from Legendary Tokens to Command Points in a few areas. Here are the details:

- Starting in Jet Set Go, the 1300 point progression reward in Versus Events will be replaced with 25 Command Points. - Starting in Season 24, The 10,000 point progression reward for Seasons will be replaced with 25 Command Points. - Starting in the Venom: Heroic Event, the last progression reward of Story Events will be 25 Command Points."

Thanks for playing!

entrailbucket

Before they split the pool I guess they were technically all Classic tokens.

ThaRoadWarrior

Venom Heroic Event….I remember that one

Daredevil217

entrailbucket said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

What if they take the 18cp off the 1200pt mark in pvp, and replace it with the CT that is on paper, a reward increase of 2cp in value? Another example of the quantitative analysis that ignores the value proposition of flexible spending.

Players would absolutely lose their minds if they did that.  I think a bunch of people would get upset if they replaced mighty tokens with classics.  Some percentage of players would get really mad if they replaced a 250 iso reward with classics.

Nobody wants classics.  Some players might take them if they were free (I say might, because I really think some wouldn't take free ones) but no one will give up anything of value for them.

Players wouldn’t take them over 250 Iso? Wouldn’t take them for free?

The hyperbole is strong with this one…

entrailbucket

Lots of players really need iso.  If they reduced iso payouts to give out completely worthless classic tokens, you don't think they'd get mad about it?

MegaBee

entrailbucket said:

Lots of players really need iso.  If they reduced iso payouts to give out completely worthless classic tokens, you don't think they'd get mad about it?

Real talk? I don't think so. At minimum, classic tokens give covers that one can sell for ISO. No token is completely worthless.

ThaRoadWarrior

That's why I suggested working them into the 5* champ reward structure in place of iso; if you're stacking champ levels on 5*s you are unlikely to be iso-poor.

Zalasta

Agree that they really need to change the look to make them more distinct from LL tokens. 

These would be a great addition for shield resupply if they replaced lesser tokens.   They'd also work well as a reward for a daily crash of titans type addition to DD.

entrailbucket

ThaRoadWarrior said:

That's why I suggested working them into the 5* champ reward structure in place of iso; if you're stacking champ levels on 5*s you are unlikely to be iso-poor.

The last time they changed champion rewards it didn't go so well for them...

Anyway I'm not saying players would be right to complain!  A classic token is obviously worth significantly more than 250 iso.  I just think classics have such a terrible reputation/are considered such garbage that some players would prefer the iso.

HoundofShadow

History will repeat. (Top) Players will request the dev to switch it to 20 cps instead. It'll be modified 2016 again.

Beefhammer69

Well, yeah. I’d much rather have a 20CP lump sum reward that I can use anywhere than a Classic Token that I can only redeem one place. 

ThaRoadWarrior

I would hate to get my CP converted to a classic token, but if i could get RISO or even ISO converted to a classic, I'd be into that

entrailbucket

HoundofShadow said:

History will repeat. (Top) Players will request the dev to switch it to 20 cps instead. It'll be modified 2016 again.

That's a way better point than my mostly dumb joke.  They converted legendary tokens in rewards into CP precisely because players wanted to choose how they spent their CP.  Putting specific legendary tokens in rewards would be a step back.

Godzillafan67

From the moment Legendary tokens were split into Latest and Classic, I thought it odd that they looked exactly the same. (I also hate how their stores look rather similar.) Personally, the change I would make would be to color the embossed eagle gold on the LLs and leave the CLs as-is; the LLs would pop a bit more and the CLs would keep the "classic" look... after all, such is their namesake.

As far as a CLs' worth, it really depends on where you are in the game. Just starting? Worthless -- build out your 1*, 2*, and then 3* rosters. Building up your 4* tier, either through acquiring new characters or champing, or getting covers on older 5*s? Classics are the economical and practical choice. (Full disclosure: This is my spot in the game, so I'm a classics buyer.) Have all of the older 5*s champed? To paraphrase @entrailbucket, they can be considered garbage.

JRYUART

Hoping this isn’t too far of a tangent but I wish they’d just get rid of LL tokens altogether and consolidate it all into CP.  For every instance where we would have earned a full LL cover, just give us 25cp instead.  Allow the players to choose how or where they want to spend the currency , whether it is LL or Classic. Having the unique LL tokens *only* be eligible to pull in that one store with the idea that it motivates people to pull within a certain timeframe seems like a pretty transparent intention.  Wouldn’t giving the playerbase more flexibility as a show of goodwill be more advantageous?  The devs wouldn’t even have to change anything in terms of cost.  Just convert any stockpiled LL tokens (1 LL to 25cp) and credit the user accounts.  Keep the same cp costs when purchasing levels or one off covers (does anyone actually do this?)

There is no compelling reason to segment out two currencies when the conventional wisdom imparted by the community in regards to hoarding / spending cp is to wait for the errant “good” store to pull from.  Maybe if everything was consolidated , the devs might consistently see more modest purchases throughout the year rather than the huge unhoardings once or twice in the same period when a decent store rolls out.  

I’d bet that if this same classic token offer was “4500 hp 202cp” for $39.99 usd, they would have seen way, way more purchases. 

Having LL’s is like the equivalent of getting a gift card worth $25, that can *only* be used on the monthly featured specialty sandwich at McDonald’s and everyone is waiting for the McRib to come back.  Wouldn’t a $25 gift card that I can use on anything at the menu make more sense ?

entrailbucket

I remember being really happy when they changed the token rewards to be CP back in 2016, and I remember they made a big deal about it.  It's weird that after doing that, they still give out tokens at all.  I was thinking about what you said, and I wonder if they consider actual tokens to be a lower tier reward than CP?

What got me was translating the classics deal into CP.  Like, they'd never, ever sell 200CP for $40.  I've never seen CP priced at anything even close to that rate.  But they sell deals with LT for $10/token or less all the time now.

Is that what it is?  Do they consider tokens to be a much lower tier reward than the equivalent in CP?  Do we?  Should we?

JRYUART

entrailbucket said:

I remember being really happy when they changed the token rewards to be CP back in 2016, and I remember they made a big deal about it.  It's weird that after doing that, they still give out tokens at all.  I was thinking about what you said, and I wonder if they consider actual tokens to be a lower tier reward than CP?

What got me was translating the classics deal into CP.  Like, they'd never, ever sell 200CP for $40.  I've never seen CP priced at anything even close to that rate.  But they sell deals with LT for $10/token or less all the time now.

Is that what it is?  Do they consider tokens to be a much lower tier reward than the equivalent in CP?  Do we?  Should we?

I do.  I value CP > LL.  Why?  Flexibility.  I can use them on special stores as well as LL store.  The reason I hoard my cp is because of the special stores that pop up and knowing that if there’s something I want from it, I can roll the dice and maybe get it.  If there’s something I want from the LL store and I don’t have any stockpiled LL tokens, that is an option as well.

Here’s the rub - if the only reason that LL tokens exist is to help further capitalize on encouraging the player to use them for a chance to get a narrow subset of character offerings during a limited time, why do they not have an expiration date ?  Since the community is usually spot-on in quickly determining if the offerings themselves are worth pulling for , it’s not like we aren’t armed with more insight before pulling the trigger.  And if those offerings are deemed somewhat mediocre, no one is going to pull regardless unless they are a completionist or just like the character. And for others, the hoard continues to accrue.  My point for the devs is, wouldn’t it just be better to encourage spending more frequently if the currency we earn is more flexible on where we could spend it ?  Maybe I *would* consider drawing from a special store that I normally wouldn’t consider if my overall earnings were comprised of a unified currency; instead, I’m having to deliberate between hedging my bets that holding my earnings might be better in the long run rather than spending a little bit here and there as I see fit . I posit that splitting the currency as it stands now, is actually creating drag when it comes to player growth, if you take into account dilution, release cadence and the overall desirability of whomever is in LL.  

Edit : I want to add that while the devs have every right to be stringent in terms of refunding players who thought this deal was for LL tokens instead of Classics because it *was* in the written description, it is a bit sketch when 1. This is first time that classics were offered as a “token” 2. The new graphic for the tokens is exactly the same as the old token and most importantly 3. There was zero communication from D3 that this store was impending via an official pre-release announcement, and they did not get ahead of potential backlash, which anyone could have seen coming.  The optics here smack here of profiteering off as many “mistakes” as possible before word got out into the community clarifying that this was specifically for classics, rather than LL.  I wonder how fast the drop off in sales was once this info was confirmed by the ones that made this purchase in error.  

HoundofShadow

If we think of these decisions in terms of human factors or human psychology, it makes sense. Humans crave control, flexibility, instant gratification, new things and predictability. All these are precious to us. What happens if you don't have all the above? You feel helpless, stucked, impatient, bored and depressed.

Let's take it that the dev owns the game. In order for them to cede some control to you, they want something in return. 

Just look at Bonus Hero vs Shards. We had tradeoffs in return for flexibility/control. Even updated Shield Training gave half a cover instead of a full cover equivalent. Why didn't bonus shards give only 500 5* shards or 400 4* shards? Instead, most of the bonus 4*/5* shards are 50. 

entrailbucket

That's the problem then, I think?

If the devs consider LT to be a lesser reward, then in their eyes, they're not equivalent to 25cp.  I don't know what the actual equivalent value is, I guess you could figure it out from the offer prices?  There's no way players would accept converting them at some lower rate though, so we're stuck.