Character Rebalance - ***** Jean Grey (Phoenix) *****

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Comments

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    That is a ton of speculation, which is all we can do without an official announcement.
    And it's what we usually do.
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,816 Chairperson of the Boards
    Retiring characters would actually be a great way to give some players the game they seem to want/already have, but it'd be hard to make it work with this game's business model.

    In mobile games where power creep is the business model, the new stuff is always better than the old stuff, but you can no longer draw the old stuff from token pools, and you're never required to use the old stuff.  Generally there's quite a long period of time before the old stuff becomes totally unusable, but it always does.  Tons of highly successful games operate this way.
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    entrailbucket said:
    Retiring characters would actually be a great way to give some players the game they seem to want/already have, but it'd be hard to make it work with this game's business model.

    .
    That was from my thread and I reply the same: on this game to cover a 5* means a LOT of time and reaources invested, both for players and devs.
    There wouldn't be a valid compensation. 
    Imo the right way is the one they are taking, weekly buffed list and rebalance. 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2022
    Since the intention of the dev is not to destroy the winfinite, but to remove one of the character from winfinite, we just need to see what she can do better than other similar characters and make guesses. 

    As for retiring characters, I'm not sure if it still makes sense to do this at the point of time. We've been in the end game content for almost 2 years since SCL 10 was introduced in February 2020. Milestone was last updated in May 2021 and the requirements were pretty crazy. Weekly 5* boost week fulfills the fantasies of players who want to own 550 5*.

    I would rather they work on Support than solve the problem of dilution. I would happily trade away some of my 7-9 champed  5* for those 7-9 R5 supports that give +6 non-blue aps at the start of the game. R5 Supports > uninteresting champed 5*

  • captainheath
    captainheath Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
    I like the rebalance, but wish the ap cost would go down even further.  Phoenix is someone you should be afraid of, not save for last.  With lower ap cost, you would have to debate downing her first and trying to avoid resurrection or putting up with her hitting you and saving her for last.
  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 1,081 Chairperson of the Boards
    I agree with some that these rebalances aren’t earth shattering. However, I appreciate them. I would like to see them continue, and they make it less painful to use these characters when they are required. 

    It’s a nice little bonus to an already champed 5 for me, so very little to complain about. She will remain benched most of the time, like 99 percent of my roster…that’s just a reality at this point.
  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,233 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2022
    entrailbucket said:
    Retiring characters would actually be a great way to give some players the game they seem to want/already have, but it'd be hard to make it work with this game's business model.

    In mobile games where power creep is the business model, the new stuff is always better than the old stuff, but you can no longer draw the old stuff from token pools, and you're never required to use the old stuff.  Generally there's quite a long period of time before the old stuff becomes totally unusable, but it always does.  Tons of highly successful games operate this way.
    In a way, the buff list can be thought of as a temporary retirement for all the non-buffed characters. The idea being that the buffed characters are so good that you don't want to use the other ones so they are 'temporarily retired' that week. Obviously since some 5*s are MUCH better than the average one it doesn't work out quite that way but that's sort of the gist of it.
    As for retiring from tokens, I hope at some point the classic token pulls will get split into 2 (or more). Say 2015-2018 classic legends and 2019-2021 legends where each group contains the 4/5* releases from those years. That would help with the dilution in that at least you could narrow your search down if you wanted to cover an older character (you gotta champ them all or some older character is a personal favorite from comics/movies etc).
    KGB
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    I’ve advocated for separate token pools years ago. Still hasn’t happened 
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,449 Chairperson of the Boards
    i brought the old Danver5 nerf thread back to recent if anyone cares to continue debating that in a more relevant place.
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,816 Chairperson of the Boards
    KGB said:
    entrailbucket said:
    Retiring characters would actually be a great way to give some players the game they seem to want/already have, but it'd be hard to make it work with this game's business model.

    In mobile games where power creep is the business model, the new stuff is always better than the old stuff, but you can no longer draw the old stuff from token pools, and you're never required to use the old stuff.  Generally there's quite a long period of time before the old stuff becomes totally unusable, but it always does.  Tons of highly successful games operate this way.
    In a way, the buff list can be thought of as a temporary retirement for all the non-buffed characters. The idea being that the buffed characters are so good that you don't want to use the other ones so they are 'temporarily retired' that week. Obviously since some 5*s are MUCH better than the average one it doesn't work out quite that way but that's sort of the gist of it.
    As for retiring from tokens, I hope at some point the classic token pulls will get split into 2 (or more). Say 2015-2018 classic legends and 2019-2021 legends where each group contains the 4/5* releases from those years. That would help with the dilution in that at least you could narrow your search down if you wanted to cover an older character (you gotta champ them all or some older character is a personal favorite from comics/movies etc).
    KGB
    They can't do real retirement for the same reason they can't do designed-in power creep like those other games do.  This game is successful because their business model is selling roster slots.  If they retired characters they'd lose out on selling slots.  If characters were explicitly power-creeped and no longer required for stuff, you could just cut them from your roster.


    As for splitting the token pool, I wouldn't like that very much!  I suspect the other three players in the entire playerbase who pull classics also wouldn't like it.  And I'm not sure splitting the token pool in that way would encourage anyone to open classics who's not opening them now. 

    Right now, I have a feeling that the classic token pool exists as a way to sell a whole lot of roster slots to new players -- and again, their incredible ability to sell roster slots to new players is largely why this game is successful.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think special do a better job than splitting Classics into 2 stores. Currently, we have 64 5* with 3 in LTs.

    Splitting into two means each store would have ~30 5* each. If you want Okoye, the probability of getting her is 1 out of 210 pulls. That's 4420 cps.

    At the end of this year, it would be 30 in store 1 and 39 in store 2.

    A special store gives you 1/21 probability of getting who you want in an unknown timeframe. 

    Splitting the store up also probably means that each store has it own RNG record. 

    Also, how many non-competitive players have excess cps lying around to pull from Classics, and at the same time cover latest 5* consistently? 

    At the end of the day, it's better to pull from special store rather than a classic store split into 2. The odds are still 1/210 compared to 1/21 from special store.
  • Kolence
    Kolence Posts: 969 Critical Contributor
    @entrailbucket
    Why would spitting the classic pool in two change anything for you, though? You could just continue making odd pulls from the first store and even pulls from the other... :) 
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,816 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'd have to keep track of which pool I was on, which I would definitely mess up!

    The other thing is that I *suspect* if they split the pool somehow they'd raise the CP cost, and I'd definitely not like that.
  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,639 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2022
    Why don’t they just introduce classic tokens dropped at a similar rate to mighty tokens?
  • MegaBee
    MegaBee Posts: 1,040 Chairperson of the Boards
    dianetics said:
    Why don’t they just introduce classic tokens dropped at a similar rate to mighty tokens?
    They'd replace some other reward (probably CP) with those classic tokens. Can you imagine the uproar?
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,816 Chairperson of the Boards
    dianetics said:
    Why don’t they just introduce classic tokens dropped at a similar rate to mighty tokens?
    It'd be nice but that would represent a pretty significant bump in rewards.
  • Jimsta_rooney
    Jimsta_rooney Posts: 167 Tile Toppler
    Be nice if she was usable for this pvp event
  • Glockoma
    Glockoma Posts: 555 Critical Contributor
    Jimsta_rooney said:
    Be nice if she was usable for this pvp event
    She is. Data for this morning is in and she’s up to date for me.
  • Glockoma
    Glockoma Posts: 555 Critical Contributor
    She’s definitely usable in this event, though it’s still rough sledding. I still think she needs a fortified rebirth tile, mine got matched 2 outta 4 matches so far.  :|
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,816 Chairperson of the Boards
    You really need to set her to 5 green if you're planning to kill her on purpose.  Dropping the CD tile to 1 means that it resolves immediately (assuming she dies during the enemy's turn). 

    Unfortunately it means giving up quite a bit on one of her other powers, but generally if you're planning to kill her, you'd make that decision before the match.  I typically go to 3 purple unless she's being used with a strong special tile generator.

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