Making gambit and banner useful

ThaRoadWarrior

To be honest, I would kind of love a mode where I could set this up and run this test...

Anon

I wish we had a "training mode" of sorts where we could theory craft and test out teams.

Akoni

PiMacleod said:

I've heard a greater call for synergies lately.  Theres been a few mentions in my YouTube channel here n there, the FB group i'm in, and my alliance... As much as players understand that Okoye/Apoc can boost their teammates, there's a desire for such power for team synergies. 

After all, if we're gonna boost damage to such astronomical heights, it kinda does make comic-book-sense to have it based on a team.

Thinking about it right now, i kinda wish it was a part of a larger general set of rules, that isnt applied to characters, but instead applies to everyone based on their affiliations.
Just as an example:

If your team has 2 or more characters sharing the same affiliation, gain +25% match and power damage for those characters, per character (i.e. 50% due to 2 characters or 75% if all 3).

If the team has all 3 characters sharing the same affiliation, gain 25% damage reduction to all sources.

Stuff like that.  Of course, they could also make them more specific to teams...  Like, have these general ones, but then also include specifics...  I.e. --

2 or more Xmen = +15% health regen per character
2 or more Avengers = +15% damage output per character
2 or more SHIELD = Start with +1 all AP
2 or more Villians = Each Countdown/Repeater created gains Fortification upon creation.

I could go on... But you get the point.  I only mention this because if we're talking about nerfs and buffs... Maybe synergies is just the thing.  If done properly, it could address the entire cast of characters, and lead to a different way to look at each character, given their teammates and affiliations.

At some point in the future I think affiliation boosts could work. I don't see that happening anytime soon though. I also like synergistic characters like Prof X and any X-Men member, or Iron Fist and Luke Cage, or the defenders as a whole when you include Misty. There is an ongoing opportunity to provide synergies like that with most releases. Marvel comics is packed with affiliations. I continue to insist that some characters don't need to be buffed, just supported with new characters.

Want to make Devil Dinosaur something people actually use? Add Moon-Girl and Moon-Boy with powers that turn him into a nightmare for the enemy. Bummed that Nico Minoru is underutilized? Release more of the Runaways that have good synergy with her. There are so many creative options yet explored in MPQ. Where's the rest of the Phoenix Five, Horsemen of Apocalypse, etc? So much potential.

KGB said:

jp1 said:

The lazy part is how often they just rely on the old meta to cash in. Rather than shake things up and keep progressing. 4* releases show they clearly know what they are doing, and choices are being made at players expense in the 5* tier.

Any 5 released should at least be better than the best 4. By virtue of value alone, never-mind balance.

Technically the worst champed 5* (Wasp @450) would handily defeat the best champed 4* (Polaris @270) in a 1v1 battle. You could sub in Juggs or some other 4* and she'd still beat them by virtue of health / match damage.

If you are instead saying the worst 5* should mesh on teams better than the best 4* does, well then good luck. Polaris is more OP in the 4* tier than any 5* character is in the 5* tier.

Yes, the Devs's know what they are doing and releasing. But a mistake in the 4* tier like Polaris isn't a death sentence (ie there are no nerf-Polaris threads) because there exist a higher tier of play that mostly renders her an afterthought.  But a OP mistake in the 5* tier like Gambit forces a nerf which makes the community divided and angry (witness the Okoye discussions lately). So they are being very cautious now in 5* land because of the cost of an OP mistake.

KGB

I agree. The primary reason a mistake on a character, above or below the mean, at the 4* tier isn't a death sentence is because of the depth in that tier. There is enough variance that you can scrounge together a decent team somehow. With over 100 characters, there are plenty of options for dealing with Polaris. I don't even flinch when I see her in PVP anymore. In fact, I specifically target [most] Polaris teams because they are easy to deal with. The biggest threats on a Polaris team are Kitty and Medusa, not Polaris. 

In the 5* tier, however, there isn't enough depth or variance to counter an overpowered character. I would almost say that devs shouldn't nerf or buff anything until we have a bigger pool of 5* characters. (I said "ALMOST.") 

ThaRoadWarrior said:

My C4rol is lvl 333, and is doing 18k plus whatever her strikes are adding, they don’t share a top color so C4rol’s passive wont damage, but will help AP generation. I don’t know, I think I could do it. It would be harder with a baby champ though.

g4mora could probably do it too if stuns are enabled

One of the first things I noticed when I started jumping into 3* tier was that health and match damage follow an overlapping formula. At every tier, your champions can defeat unchampioned characters in the next tier up. Once that next tier is championed, a lower champion can still beat them, but they'll need a good team and a pinch of luck. Once a championed character levels up, they begin to crush lower tier champions with relative ease. A maxed champion laughs at a lower tier maxed champion. This is replicated at every single tier with no exception. Depending on powers, it could be an interesting battle at the start. Still, that's like putting the NCAA Div 1 championship football team up against the worst NFL football team. The worst NFL football players are still bigger, stronger, faster, tougher and better trained than the college players.

ThaRoadWarrior

Akoni said:
ThaRoadWarrior said:

My C4rol is lvl 333, and is doing 18k plus whatever her strikes are adding, they don’t share a top color so C4rol’s passive wont damage, but will help AP generation. I don’t know, I think I could do it. It would be harder with a baby champ though.

g4mora could probably do it too if stuns are enabled

One of the first things I noticed when I started jumping into 3* tier was that health and match damage follow an overlapping formula. At every tier, your champions can defeat unchampioned characters in the next tier up. Once that next tier is championed, a lower champion can still beat them, but they'll need a good team and a pinch of luck. Once a championed character levels up, they begin to crush lower tier champions with relative ease. A maxed champion laughs at a lower tier maxed champion. This is replicated at every single tier with no exception. Depending on powers, it could be an interesting battle at the start. Still, that's like putting the NCAA Div 1 championship football team up against the worst NFL football team. The worst NFL football players are still bigger, stronger, faster, tougher and better trained than the college players.

Relative level is everything, to be sure, but in the same way not all 5*s are created equal, there are decidedly some 4.5* 4*s that I know in my heart could walk all over the trash tier 5s if one were player controlled and the other not. Just take a look at which 4* characters get their Crash of the Titans vs a 5* or boss fight character (Ghost 4ider Penance Stare could 1-shot a 5 if you ate enough damage most likely) and which ones get play-down 3s that chase their same colors. 

I bet I could get Elektr4 to beat Wa5p too now that I think about it...Ah well; maybe one day we'll see some kind of way to attempt these things.

Akoni

ThaRoadWarrior said:

I bet I could get Elektr4 to beat Wa5p too now that I think about it...Ah well; maybe one day we'll see some kind of way to attempt these things.

OK, I like Elect4's odds better than C4rol or Vulture's. She still needs a bit of luck and boosts on her black to create trap tiles, though. Going airborne against Wa5p is meh, but redirecting damage is the next best thing to stun. With that said, @Mr_F would be happy to hear that I would still put my iso on a champed Wa5p.

Anon

4Juggs would probably take Wa5p

ThaRoadWarrior

If the 4* were boosted it would change everything too. 

I’d take my chances with Iron Spider, I’d be very curious about Hobofist and maybe Mordo. 

ThaRoadWarrior

Next time that solo PVP runs for like the first...day....let’s all agree nobody uses anyone but Wa5p, and then we can all spend the second day trying various 4* characters on her.

Mr_F

Akoni said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

I bet I could get Elektr4 to beat Wa5p too now that I think about it...Ah well; maybe one day we'll see some kind of way to attempt these things.

OK, I like Elect4's odds better than C4rol or Vulture's. She still needs a bit of luck and boosts on her black to create trap tiles, though. Going airborne against Wa5p is meh, but redirecting damage is the next best thing to stun. With that said, @Mr_F would be happy to hear that I would still put my iso on a champed Wa5p.

Just deny black and you are a winner. The rest is a match damage bonanza.

So yeah, I am happy. Also I dont have problem against some lower tier 5* with her. On defense its another topic.

Akoni

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Next time that solo PVP runs for like the first...day....let’s all agree nobody uses anyone but Wa5p, and then we can all spend the second day trying various 4* characters on her.

Wonderful idea, but I have to pass. I'm not going to spend resources on trying to champ W4sp just to run that test.

MegaBee

Akoni said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Next time that solo PVP runs for like the first...day....let’s all agree nobody uses anyone but Wa5p, and then we can all spend the second day trying various 4* characters on her.

Wonderful idea, but I have to pass. I'm not going to spend resources on trying to champ W4sp just to run that test.

[GOTTA CHAMP 'EM ALL INTENSIFIES]

Mr_F

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Next time that solo PVP runs for like the first...day....let’s all agree nobody uses anyone but Wa5p, and then we can all spend the second day trying various 4* characters on her.

Całym moim serduszkiem jestem na tak!*

*With all of my little heart, I am "yes" on that!

PiMacleod

@jp1. The finanical implications...
The "evidence" about 4*s hitting the mark more often...

Yikes.  I see what you mean.

.....

However, i still gotta post what i can post about it.  Im this silly thing people call an "optimist".  Supposedly devs read these boards here and there.  And supposedly sometimes they take our ideas and run with them...

So, in the hopes that any one dev takes a look and says "hey, thats not bad...", I'll keep it up, and cross my fingers. 

HoundofShadow

The dev definitely use players' ideas on how to balance character. If you don't believe me, look for the 5* Gambit's thread that spanned over 20 pages. You will find some of the players' ideas being implemented. 

ThaRoadWarrior

Akoni said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Next time that solo PVP runs for like the first...day....let’s all agree nobody uses anyone but Wa5p, and then we can all spend the second day trying various 4* characters on her.

Wonderful idea, but I have to pass. I'm not going to spend resources on trying to champ W4sp just to run that test.

You needn't champ her, just use her for a day exclusively so that she is your defense character, and after that use whoever you want from the 4* tier against the ones all the rest of us left out.

jp1

PiMacleod said:

@jp1. The finanical implications...
The "evidence" about 4*s hitting the mark more often...

Yikes.  I see what you mean.

.....

However, i still gotta post what i can post about it.  Im this silly thing people call an "optimist".  Supposedly devs read these boards here and there.  And supposedly sometimes they take our ideas and run with them...

So, in the hopes that any one dev takes a look and says "hey, thats not bad...", I'll keep it up, and cross my fingers. 

Just to be clear, there was no sarcasm in me saying I was happy you were theory crafting solutions. I’m always glad to see new ideas and if they were to be interested in implementing them I would be ecstatic. 

I just don’t feel they are as inept as some people make them out to be. It is very hard to foresee every interaction in a roster of this size and they juggle it with some degree of competence. So, when they release a turd, I don’t feel sorry for them, I feel that it is a calculated risk motivated by financial gain. It’s quite smart actually the way they manipulate it to their advantage while appearing benevolent. I have to commend them for that.

formula11

How about bringing gambit back