Making gambit and banner useful

Anon

ThaRoadWarrior said:

I feel kind of sure that if they just un-nerfed Gambit and OML, they'd be just fine in today's meta compared to how the game was in their heyday.

OML never should have been nerfed in the first place. Gambit... I don't know. This one is tricky.

Phumade

HoundofShadow said:

Besides, it's going to be pretty predictable how players are going to design the characters, such as high damage/ap, low cost, strong passive etc. I think the game will become a faster game of power creep if players here test the game.

I’m not so sure I agree with this premise.  The “engaged” player base has a pretty through understanding of the mechanics.  I think the designs could be innovative, especially as players tweak various 5* interactions

HoundofShadow

Yes, the engaged players have thorough understanding of the best characters to team with meta. That's it.

The other issue has always mainly been about ap cost and damage/ap. I think they mentioned they have some formula in place to check the numbers. As you can see, the numbers will still be not what the players usually expect.

Theghouse

Making them useful is certainly one good argument, but probably only in the power damage and AP cost getting rebalanced sense.

I can't see them upping health or match damage, because that (and 5E rotation) is how they keep new 5* relevant, regardless of their powers or places in the meta.

Making old characters considerably more powerful or giving them complete reworks, which could shake up the meta, would be a complete slap in the face to players who never even had a chance to cover them before being banished to classics.  A potential solution would be if they were to rerelease them after a rework, and while this gives players a chance to obtain them it still heavily favors players who have them rostered at a high level.  This also goes against the push for continuous new content which is why I doubt we'll see this become a major focus at all.

formula11

To who ever said " The true scary part is if they allowed teammates to use the red/purple... because now Apoc's just punching TOO often... yikes. " That's why I said change the ap gen to be the same as thor's,he feeds red and he's not a real issue when using apocalypse. They already took away gambit overwriting countdown tiles what was the main problem with that purple if remember correctly even bringing your own gambit to counter it was race to get purple to lock the outer guy out. My thought is nobody cries about thor's passive make the same passaive for the other colors in some characters we don't use. It's so easy to control " save him for last to take down when fighting  the team. And when you are using a character at half health from the start things could go sideways real quick with cascade or bad board.

sambrookjm

How about letter Banner Hulk's matches actually generate AP?  You know, like R&G at the 4-star level, or Carnage at the 5-star level.  He'd need a lot more work, but that alone would start to bring him up to respectability.  

DAZ0273

Anon said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

I feel kind of sure that if they just un-nerfed Gambit and OML, they'd be just fine in today's meta compared to how the game was in their heyday.

OML never should have been nerfed in the first place. Gambit... I don't know. This one is tricky.

OML was nerfed because 2* players could use him as a perpetually healing meat shield. I loved my 2 cover Yellow OML - he was great in PvP & PvE hiding my other characters behind him and if they went down there was still a great chance I could match damage the enemy to death. OML would not be close to meta even if they reverted him but he would again be a big band aid for low rosters -  lucky RNG (1 cover) could skew things for players in the lower transitions so I can maybe understand why they wont revert him. If they did buff him then at the very least have his healing factor not be reliant on team mates.

Gambit on the other hand - well the forum got what it wanted just like they did with Bishop (and a lesser extent) Worthy Cap. To this day I still don't have a Gambit black so it wouldn't do me much good to have him back as he was but it might be interesting. He could be useful against Kitty based teams but I don't see him putting a dent in the iHulk/Okoye meta - he will be Green Door'ed to death like the rest of them.

formula11

And that's kind of my point it won't upset the meta but would at least allow some more combos to be used.when was the last time you used 5* black widow with 12,12,10Ap  powers you need someone generating that red and purple for her to be used.

DAZ0273

I guess the real problem would be future releases. If they have particularly strong or cheap red or purple powers, they might have to re-nerf Gambit if he breaks the game again.

formula11

They are not stoping any red,green,yellow characters from being made. Not to mention the way that passive works you may not even get anything if that color has a special on it and there isn't any normal tiles. 

DAZ0273

Apart from Apocalypse, none of them have mattered have they? However they might consider these things as having a limiting effect on their ability to introduce strong powers in these colours. Anyway, as I said, it benefits me zero as I don't have his black so I am not opposed to them un-nerfing Gambit, I just don't see it happening. Have they ever reversed a nerf?

formula11

If you use 5* Thor you should know it doesn't always work out and it's not super quick.

HoundofShadow

First, you need to ask, can they reverse their compensations as well? You can't expect a trade that benefits only one party to happen. 

formula11

HoundofShadow said:

First, you need to ask, can they reverse their compensations as well? You can't expect a trade that benefits only one party to happen. 

Why would they need to compensate don't un- Nerf him just add the passive to possibly make him useful. Even better since bringing up the word gambit is giving people flashbacks of OP gambit add the passive to 5* black widow same color set. Nobody use's her either

DAZ0273

You were given tokens for a special 5* store - that special store contained the following 5*

• Archangel (Classic)
• Black Bolt (Inhuman King)
• Black Panther (Civil War)
• Black Widow (Natasha Romanoff)
• Captain America (First Avenger)
• Captain America (Infinity War)
• Daredevil (Matt Murdock)
• Doctor Strange (Sorcerer Supreme)
• Ghost Rider (Robbie Reyes)
• Green Goblin (Norman Osborn)
• Hawkeye (Clint Barton)
• Iron Man (Mark XLVI)
• Jean Grey (Phoenix)
• Jessica Jones (Alias Investigations)
• Okoye (Warrior General)
• Silver Surfer (Skyrider)
• Spider-Man (Back in Black)
• Spider-Man (Peter Parker)
• Star-Lord (Awesome Mix Volume 2)
• Thanos (The Mad Titan)
• The Hulk (Bruce Banner)
• Thor (Gladiator)
• Wasp (Hope Van Dyne)
• Wolverine (Old Man Logan

So the compensation was RNG based. You also gained a free LT if he was used in the Mind Stone Season in any event.

Reversing compensation on the above basis seems pretty impossible to me - all of it is RNG based - some players might have got nothing but Cap, Hulk and Wasp covers.

DAZ0273

formula11 said:

If you use 5* Thor you should know it doesn't always work out and it's not super quick.

My Apoc/Thor is pretty quick I have to say and a lot of that is the yellow/red AP production.

formula11

I was one of ones who sold my Gambit I don't expect anything and  he's useless now why not make him useable. Or like I said forget Gambit and add the passive to black widow (another useless character) same color set.

DAZ0273

Leaving Gambit aside, there is at least a potential selling point to "re-balancing" Natasha because we have a film coming out for which we have already had (presumably) all the intended release content. So doing something with 5BW would make quite a bit of sense from all perspectives. I guess we find out in a few months time.

HoundofShadow

At least it's a guaranteed 5*, not a 1:7 token.

Moving on, they did rework for Dr Ock due to some Spiderman movie, if I remembered correctly.. So, that's a possibility. 

DAZ0273

It was indeed guaranteed 5*. Personally I hung on to my Gambit because he wasn't really all that highly covered but have since through various places got him up to *maybe* useable if I could ever just get at least 1 black cover if they rolled him back.