Is the Classic Legends store worth it? Will it ever be?

thedarkphoenix

Theghouse said:

thedarkphoenix said:

If they'd randomly buff older 5's then all of a sudden it would be....

Even if they buffed a couple classics to become the new OP meta and you had to chase them, each of the 48 current 5* characters in the classics pool has individual odds to draw of 1/320.  And with every new release, the classic pool gets bigger and that number gets worse.

At the current odds, even if you got lucky and pulled your desired character every 250 pulls instead of the statistical average of 320 pulls, and you target them for shards, it would take around 1300 pulls / 26000 CP (5-6 covers from tokens, 7.8 covers from shards) to fully cover them from 0.  And again those numbers get worse with every new character.  So, no matter how good a classic 5* characters is, the classic token will never be the best way to get them. 

Opening classics are great for getting a bunch of 4* covers, collecting some random covers of classic 5*, and getting a steady amount of 4* shards and some 5* shards.

For a classic 5* you are targeting, absolutely wait for a special store, where you can fully cover them from 0 for around 7500 CP.

For classic 5* not worth targeting, forget them. You may randomly pick up a few covers over the years but you will never get them champed.

That's fine imo, unless you just completely skip 5's until there us a set of 3 you like or one that is for sure meta then you should have 4-8 covers of most classics anyway as a long tim5 player.

Newer 5 players can continue to just focus on the latest LT instead.


It gives vet players something to chase outside of just waiting for the next 5 to drop.

NMANOZ1

The reason we have the 2 different stores were in fact for 4 stars (before they introduced 5 stars). You could get newer 4 stars in the latest while the rest were in the classic. Then they changed that where it doesn't matter which store you purchase because it is the same just punishes people transitioning to 4 stars.

I would argue we need a 3rd store which offers a selection of 4 stars (maybe only charge 15 CP as there would be no 5 stars).

BlackBoltRocks

NMANOZ1 said:

The reason we have the 2 different stores were in fact for 4 stars (before they introduced 5 stars). You could get newer 4 stars in the latest while the rest were in the classic. Then they changed that where it doesn't matter which store you purchase because it is the same just punishes people transitioning to 4 stars.

No.

The reason we have two different stores is because of the introduction and subsequent increase in 5*. When there were only 3 (Surfer, OML, Phoenix), all three could be in one single store. Then BSSM, Goblin, IM46, FirstCap etc were released, and it was decided that only the three most recent 5* would be in Latests, with the preceding 5* in Classics. And that's the way it has been ever since.

Vaulting did affect the contents of the stores in terms of 4*, but my point is that the Latest and Classics stores originated because of 5*. The Legendary Store with only 4* and 5* was introduced when Silver Surfer entered the game. Nothing to do with 4*.

abmoraz

I only pull from the classics.  Tokens go to the current (cause there's no choice), CP go to classics.  It's essentially 25% more shards (with the occasional bonus shards) and "buy 4 pulls, get 1 free". 

I generally sort by shards and favorite whichever 5* is closest to a level and whichever 4* will give me a legendary token the fastest.  That way I stay up to date on recent releases.  This method generally gets me 11-14 covers for the new releases before they exit the current store and enter classics.

YMMV

SnowcaTT

I've called the Classic store the "Pit Of Misery" for the last three years - when only 12ish characters were in there it wasn't a good value.

I get for those wanting more resources to get more 4*'s and eventually more 5*'s. And I get the mentality of "gotta catch 'em all"

But I wouldn't buy in at 10cp at this point. Bleh.

crackninja

If they upped the odds of pulling a 5* to 25% once you hit a certain shield rank, maybe 150, then I think they could be more relevant.  But I'm pretty sure they are happy offering up the limited stores vs tweaking anything about classics.

McPosterson

First time, long time

You can’t Pokémon your roster without them. I like to redeem them quickly and often

Theghouse

crackninja said:

If they upped the odds of pulling a 5* to 25% once you hit a certain shield rank, maybe 150, then I think they could be more relevant.  But I'm pretty sure they are happy offering up the limited stores vs tweaking anything about classics.

Even by upping the odds to 25% for 5*, with 48 5* characters in the current pool, you would still only draw a cover of a specific 5* once every 192 pulls on average.

Starting from 0, and targeting your desired character for shards, it would still take around 1160 pulls / 23200 CP to reach 13 covers (6 from tokens, 7 from shards).

And again this gets worse with every addition to the classics pool.

To beat the horse completely dead and drag it to the glue factory... even if you were guaranteed to get a 5* out of every classics pull, you'd still need around 500 pulls / 10000 CP to get 13 covers (10 from covers, 3 from shards).

So without crazy changes to the price or dividing up the classic token pool of 5*, classic tokens may give you sightly cheaper access to random 4*, random 5*, and shards, which may be useful to those still developing their 4* rosters or still needing a majority of classic 5*s.

But for players with well developed 4* rosters and most 5* at least rostered, it will never be an effective way to get covers of specifically desired 5*.  Latests and special stores will still be the best way to accomplish that.

crackninja

Theghouse said:

crackninja said:

If they upped the odds of pulling a 5* to 25% once you hit a certain shield rank, maybe 150, then I think they could be more relevant.  But I'm pretty sure they are happy offering up the limited stores vs tweaking anything about classics.

Even by upping the odds to 25% for 5*, with 48 5* characters in the current pool, you would still only draw a cover of a specific 5* once every 192 pulls on average.

Starting from 0, and targeting your desired character for shards, it would still take around 1160 pulls / 23200 CP to reach 13 covers (6 from tokens, 7 from shards).

And again this gets worse with every addition to the classics pool.

To beat the horse completely dead and drag it to the glue factory... even if you were guaranteed to get a 5* out of every classics pull, you'd still need around 500 pulls / 10000 CP to get 13 covers (10 from covers, 3 from shards).

So without crazy changes to the price or dividing up the classic token pool of 5*, classic tokens may give you sightly cheaper access to random 4*, random 5*, and shards, which may be useful to those still developing their 4* rosters or still needing a majority of classic 5*s.

But for players with well developed 4* rosters and most 5* at least rostered, it will never be an effective way to get covers of specifically desired 5*.  Latests and special stores will still be the best way to accomplish that.

I never said anything about trying to cover a specific 5*.  I was thinking more along the lines of riding the champ rewards, where it wouldn't really matter to me which 5* I got.
In your example if every pull gave me a random 5*, then every other pull would net me a free LT or 1.25 classics, which would be pretty strong.  Now 25% is a long way from 100%, but that's where I was coming from. 

Theghouse

crackninja said:

Theghouse said:

crackninja said:

If they upped the odds of pulling a 5* to 25% once you hit a certain shield rank, maybe 150, then I think they could be more relevant.  But I'm pretty sure they are happy offering up the limited stores vs tweaking anything about classics.

Even by upping the odds to 25% for 5*, with 48 5* characters in the current pool, you would still only draw a cover of a specific 5* once every 192 pulls on average.

Starting from 0, and targeting your desired character for shards, it would still take around 1160 pulls / 23200 CP to reach 13 covers (6 from tokens, 7 from shards).

And again this gets worse with every addition to the classics pool.

To beat the horse completely dead and drag it to the glue factory... even if you were guaranteed to get a 5* out of every classics pull, you'd still need around 500 pulls / 10000 CP to get 13 covers (10 from covers, 3 from shards).

So without crazy changes to the price or dividing up the classic token pool of 5*, classic tokens may give you sightly cheaper access to random 4*, random 5*, and shards, which may be useful to those still developing their 4* rosters or still needing a majority of classic 5*s.

But for players with well developed 4* rosters and most 5* at least rostered, it will never be an effective way to get covers of specifically desired 5*.  Latests and special stores will still be the best way to accomplish that.

I never said anything about trying to cover a specific 5*.  I was thinking more along the lines of riding the champ rewards, where it wouldn't really matter to me which 5* I got.
In your example if every pull gave me a random 5*, then every other pull would net me a free LT or 1.25 classics, which would be pretty strong.  Now 25% is a long way from 100%, but that's where I was coming from. 

I never said you did.  I just took your example and calculated the odds versus reality.  And then took it a step further and calculated with ridiculous, never-to-be-seen odds just to show how terrible the classics pool is.  

I even fully acknowledged verbatim that the classic token has value in cheaper access to random 4* and 5* and shards.  Whether you would want to spend your CP there vs. spending it targeting specific 5* for performance or completion needs is obviously completely up to you.

KGB

One thing that would help somewhat with the classic store would be to split all the 5*s into 4 groups like they do with supports. Then rotate each group with a new season so you'd see each group every 4th month. So instead of 48 5*s you'd only have 12 so there would be a much higher chance to get a single cover or two for one you might want (note that they'd leave all the 4*s in there).

KGB

Reecoh

McPosterson said:

You can’t Pokémon your roster without them.

Are you saying you can't champ all of the 5*s without using classic tokens?

If so, I have to disagree with you. I haven't pulled any classics since very early in the game (before I know having a 5-star was a bad idea when building your 3-stars up) and I'm 15 covers away from having all of the classics champed, and the majority of those I will be able to cash in when they are next up in the PVE rotation.

I can see the benefit of using them to build a classic roster faster, but I don't think it is required.

Jacklag

KGB said:

When did you make this transition and can I ask how you acquired at least 1 cover of all the 5* for PvE?

KGB

I did not. I got some classic 5* as spillover from Special Stores when a new 5* is released, got some shards from PvP rewards and SCL 10 PvE, but when PVE features a classic 5* I don't have I just enjoy the break. One less node to do this week.

Siv75

I just spent 500CP to pull 1x5*. This is the third time this has happened. Why does it say that the chances are 1 in 7? 

For the seasonal stores where there are 3 5* characters....twice I had spent 500CPs to get no 5 stars at all. 

The only store that has been giving 5*s close to the chances stats is the latest 5* store. 

Makes the whole point of getting CPs downright depressing. What do you do then?

Theghouse

Siv75 said:

I just spent 500CP to pull 1x5*. This is the third time this has happened. Why does it say that the chances are 1 in 7? 

For the seasonal stores where there are 3 5* characters....twice I had spent 500CPs to get no 5 stars at all. 

The only store that has been giving 5*s close to the chances stats is the latest 5* store. 

Makes the whole point of getting CPs downright depressing. What do you do then?

All legendary store odds are slightly better than the 1:7 odds listed, a 5* draw is 15%.  Unfortunately you fell victim to a bad luck streak.  The mathematical odds of missing a 5* 20 times in a row is 3.87%.  That means for 25 people opening a stack of 20 tokens, 1 of them will not get a 5* on any of the 20 pulls.

What you do is take the bad luck this time, and hope it gets better next time. 

The odds tend to even out over larger samples; that's why many people on the forums believe in the strategy of saving up tokens and CP to make a big pull to help you beat small sample odds.  For example, pulling 334 tokens at once would net you around 47 5* at perfect odds, plus enough shards for 2 more full covers.  That wiggle room helps in your chances to get all 3 characters in the store fully covered even with some dry runs or bad cover distribution.

Akoni

Siv75 said:

I just spent 500CP to pull 1x5*. This is the third time this has happened. Why does it say that the chances are 1 in 7? 

For the seasonal stores where there are 3 5* characters....twice I had spent 500CPs to get no 5 stars at all. 

The only store that has been giving 5*s close to the chances stats is the latest 5* store. 

Makes the whole point of getting CPs downright depressing. What do you do then?

The wording is deceptive. Legends stores and other stores like it are unlimited stock. This means that your chances of pulling a 5* is the same every single time. The same is not true of the vaults. Each time you pull from a vault, your future pulls have a better chance of pulling what you want. For example, if you decide to pull from a vault that has 100 items, your chances on each pull are:
1 out of 100
1 out of 99
1 out of 98
.
.
.
1 out of 1

When pulling from a store, your chances on each pull are:
1 out of 100
1 out of 100
1 out of 100
etc...

You could theoretically never pull a 5* ever. Though, I'm sure the devs have some sort of algorithm to ensure that you get something every so many pulls. 

To use an analogy, the stores are like using a cup to remove water from a boat with a hole in it. Each time you remove a cup of water, it's replaced with a new cup of water. The vaults are like using a cup to remove water from a boat, except the hole is plugged. You will eventually get all of the water out, even if it takes awhile.

McPosterson

MPQ players are cra-A-zay!  Classics are a great value.  20% cheaper than then the 25CP store.  That's 20% more championship rewards.  On 10000 CP,, an extra 100 pulls.  100 EXTRA champion rewards.  Don't you want more rewards?  Don't you want more value?  Give me more classics while everyone else spends more

tonypq

For shards and champ rewards the classic store has decent value being cheaper. Or new players simply looking to get as many characters as possible rostered. 

I'd personally like to see 5*s get their own classic store. Now that we have quite a bit more 5s than when the first batch came out years ago. Even if the CP per pull would be higher than 20. Or leave classics  the way it is now with 4/5s, and just make a separate 5 classic store with higher CP per pull, but not having to worry about getting a bunch of 4* covers one might not want.

It's not like the classic 5s being easier to obtain will break the game. Let's face it with the power creep in 5 land, most classic 5s are under powered. Having a 5 classic store wouldn't change any balance of power, but would give long time players a decent opportunity to finish older 5s they were unable to previously. Or even you're not a veteran, someone who simply wants to finish a certain classic 5 that might be their favorite character. 

Cannibalqueen

What they really need is start buffing one classic 5* every PVE and PVP.
we have enough of them now where that would be fun.  I miss the 4* days when my roster choices were based on who was buffed that cycle.
as it is now, we only get to enjoy some of these characters once every 8 months or so when they happen to be essential.  I don’t see how it would break the game at all to give one extra 5* buff.

edit: maybe someone like Kitty, Okoye Apoc iHulk or Beta Ray Bill would come up too often, but they should just exclude obvious metas.

BlackBoltRocks

McPosterson said:

MPQ players are cra-A-zay!  Classics are a great value.  20% cheaper than then the 25CP store.  That's 20% more championship rewards.  On 10000 CP,, an extra 100 pulls.  100 EXTRA champion rewards.  Don't you want more rewards?  Don't you want more value?  Give me more classics while everyone else spends more

Only if you don't care about moving into 5* land.