Is the Classic Legends store worth it? Will it ever be?

helix72

I agree with BBR. If you exclusively pull Classics, and nothing else, I don't know if we'll ever see you in the 5* realm. Champ rewards are great, but with over 100 4* characters only 40 of which are feeders, you won't be champing any 5*s for a long, long time.

That said, I do think a strategy of partial hoarding plus pulling some classics can work. I do that myself, but I hoarded enough so that when the meta toons hit special stores, I could get them champed.

Think of it this way: roughly 6 5* characters are most important (Okoye, Thor, Apoc, Kitty, BRB, iHulk). Others are useful, but you really only use them for variety, to save healthpacks, or if you're missing one of the key 6.

I can pull classics and get 125% of the opportunity to pull 6/40 important 5*s, OR

I can hoard, pull from special vaults, and get 100% of the opportunity to pull at least 1/3 important 5*'s (3/3 for a really good store)

125% x 6 / 40 = 0.1875
100% x 1 / 3 = 0.3333

Pretty clear which is more valuable.

Phumade

There is no real reason for long term consistent purchases of classics.  But certainly there are many situations were it makes sense for a limited run of classics.  What constitutes “a limited run” is dependent on your stage and phase of game.  But here are common examples.

1.  You want the shard to quickly finish of a 5* or even 4* target.
2.  Your roster can easily absorb a large run of covers.
3.   Back in the days of targeted BH there were compelling reasons to play for the higher volume.

tonypq

Even if you want to finish off a 4 or 5 via shards, I'd rather wait until they appear in a special store for better odds at an actual cover and shards. You could also wait until their shards appear in the store for purchase rather than blow through a who knows know many classic pulls. 

For someone who has a advanced end game roster and wants champ levels on 5s, they're likely waiting for a special store to get covers and shards. I feel like CPs are too precious to bother with the classics store. The way progression is in this game they are better saved to use along with your LL tokens to build a stash up so one can have a good chance covering the trio of 5s available. Whether you're just entering 5* land or simply want to champ the trio of 5s available at the time. And if not saving your CPs for LLs, I'd be saving them for special stores that pop up, especially if you don't have metas like Okoye, Kitty, BRB, Ihulk, Thor. 

Cannibalqueen

My CP income seems to be at the exact level to manage to champ each of these new ones as they come out.  Sometimes I pull LLs when I shouldn’t and end up with things like 454 SamDak or Deadpool.  Maybe if I had more restraint, I could afford to pull a few from special stores.

Theghouse

McPosterson said:

MPQ players are cra-A-zay!  Classics are a great value.  20% cheaper than then the 25CP store.  That's 20% more championship rewards.  On 10000 CP,, an extra 100 pulls.  100 EXTRA champion rewards.  Don't you want more rewards?  Don't you want more value?  Give me more classics while everyone else spends more

As myself and others have already acknowledged, if all you care about are getting more 4* covers, any random 5* covers, and shards, absolutely it has more bang for your buck.  Even more return on investment if you are a long-time player with all the classic 5* already champed as those champ rewards have a significantly higher return than the 4*.

If you are trying to get covers of specific 5*, for completion or competitive purposes, classics are a bottomless pit of despair that only keeps getting worse.

helix72

Cannibalqueen said:

My CP income seems to be at the exact level to manage to champ each of these new ones as they come out.  Sometimes I pull LLs when I shouldn’t and end up with things like 454 SamDak or Deadpool.  Maybe if I had more restraint, I could afford to pull a few from special stores.

Yes. You would have been better off drawing a couple covers for SamDak and Deadpool and hoarding the rest IF you are missing any of the top 6 characters. Better off as in better chance to improve your speed, placement, reduce use of healthpacks, etc. Some folks are completionists and consider themselves "better off" by having more characters champed regardless of how good they are, so it does depend on your definition.

I've been tracking my CP income for 59 days now. I exclude CP earned from buy clubs or champ rewards from applying covers earned from pulling LTs, Classics, or Special Vaults. My stats are below. In addition, I've been tracking the CP I get per pull from applying champ rewards, and it is averaging 1.85. Said another way, since I started tracking I've pulled 337 covers from LTs, Classics, or Special Vaults and gotten 625 CP as part of my champ rewards from applying those 337 covers.

I'm earning roughly 2 pulls per day (a bit more because I'm only tracking CP and not LT tokens). I need to do some math because I can reliably count on at least 1000 shards for each new 5*, so I'm not sure what that means I need in terms of LT pulls to have a good chance of champing 3. The old rules of thumb of 300, 350, or whatever were based on when you had to pull 13 covers naturally.

Days	59
Average	52.2
Std Dev	28.9
Median	49
Mode	38
Min	2
Max	137

Akoni

@helix72 You are definitely, beyond a reasonable doubt, an optimizer.

helix72

Thanks. I think it's a prerequisite for this game that you have to be at least a little OCD to still be matching gems to chase covers year after year after year...

Michael1957

As far as probability and statistics goes , they follow the laws of nature . If there’s a 50% chance for a coin to land heads , and it comes up tails , you’d have to be an idiot to think “ Well that means the next time it MUST be heads” . EVERY draw is approximately 15%, even if you pull 30 straight non legends , every draw is independent of previous draws . If you went to a casino to play roulette  thinking the way players do in MPQ ( a number didn’t come up it must be due ) I guarantee you’d be broke . Regardless of pull count your chance is only and always 15%. That’s not an optimistic percentage. No one does anything in life with an 85% chance of failure. If your pull rate is 3% or 5% it’s not because “ you had bad luck “. It’s just that the odds of failure are high in every draw relative to success.

BlackBoltRocks

Michael1957 said:

If there’s a 50% chance for a coin to land heads , and it comes up tails , you’d have to be an idiot to think “ Well that means the next time it MUST be heads”.

Unfortunately, there are many people who think percentages/probabilities work like that.

skittledaddy

Curious, would players be willing to "pay" more than 25CP to select which three 5*s were in a "custom" special store?
Pull rates would stay the same, but the 5*s could be any trio you wanted.
How much would you be willing to "pay" per pull in a special store (unique to you as a player) that could be changed say 2-3 times a year? 30CP? 40CP? 50CP?

If not per pull, would instead you be more willing to "pay" an up-front amount of CP to reset the three 5s and pulls remained 25CP? 

KGB

skittledaddy said:

Curious, would players be willing to "pay" more than 25CP to select which three 5*s were in a "custom" special store?
Pull rates would stay the same, but the 5*s could be any trio you wanted.
How much would you be willing to "pay" per pull in a special store (unique to you as a player) that could be changed say 2-3 times a year? 30CP? 40CP? 50CP?

If not per pull, would instead you be more willing to "pay" an up-front amount of CP to reset the three 5s and pulls remained 25CP? 

It would depend on a couple of things. Could I also limit the 4's or say pick 10 4* that I'd like increase draw rate for (say 15x like they do for other special 4* stores)? Instead of picking 3 5*, could I just pick 1 5* and have that single one at 15% for those of us who want to hyper level a specific 5*?

If that were possible I'd be willing to pay up to 30 cp easy and maybe 40 or 50.

KGB

Timemachinego

For any legend pull odds they really just need to institute some sort of pity-timer, so say if you're at the point that by average you'd have drawn 3-4 you'll at least draw 1.

Mr_F

BlackBoltRocks said:

Jacklag said:

I dare them to release a worst character than 5* Magneto. 

They already did. Her name starts with "W" and ends with "asp".

She is far more stronger than most people thinks she is.

It does not mean that she is strong. I cant tell where to put her as I am not a 5* player yet.

Theghouse

skittledaddy said:

Curious, would players be willing to "pay" more than 25CP to select which three 5*s were in a "custom" special store?
Pull rates would stay the same, but the 5*s could be any trio you wanted.
How much would you be willing to "pay" per pull in a special store (unique to you as a player) that could be changed say 2-3 times a year? 30CP? 40CP? 50CP?

If not per pull, would instead you be more willing to "pay" an up-front amount of CP to reset the three 5s and pulls remained 25CP? 

This is an interesting prospect.  Considering that most special and new release stores only feature 1 or sometimes 2 characters really worth pulling...

At expected odds with 1 good character, 1 in 20 pulls would be a worthwhile 5* or 1 per 500 CP.  With 2 good characters in the store, 1 in 10 pulls would be a worthwhile 5* or 1 per 250 CP.   If all three 5* are good, that's roughly 1 in 7 pulls for a worthwhile 5*, or 1 per 166 CP (because of the rounded odds) at normal 25 CP costs.  

If this "pick your store" was 37 CP per pull, it would be the same average CP cost per worthwhile 5* cover as a 2 good character store at 1 per 250 CP.

If it were 75 CP per pull, it would be the same average CP cost as a 1 good character store at 1 per 500 CP.

Of course as the CP price goes up you lose shards and extra covers so you have to consider that as well.

Looking at the math, I would probably pay somewhere around 50 CP for a "pick your store" token, making it overall worse than a 2 good character store, but still better than a 1 good character store in terms of average cost per useful 5* cover.  If the price was any higher than that I think the value of lost covers and shards would outweigh the extra value of selecting the group of 5*.

helix72

I really like @Theghouse 's approach and write up. I'll add a bit more: shards and CP from champ rewards. Admittedly there's a lot more (4* covers, 5* covers and shards from 4* champ rewards, etc) but that is more time than I have right now.

One pull is worth 0.150 covers plus 3/500ths from shards, which adds another 0.006
Champ rewards are a bit trickier. I haven't done the math to factor everything in, so for now will limit it to CP from champ rewards. I've recently been tracking my own pulls and have found that over 378 pulls, I've gotten 740 CP in champ rewards so 740 / 378 = 1.958 CP returned per pull.

So let's do 100 pulls for each scenario above:

1) A store with 1 character you care about at 25 CP per pull
100 pulls x 25 CP = 2500 CP
Covers you care about: 100 x 0.150 / 3 = 5.00
Shard Covers: 100 x 0.006 = 0.600
CP returned: 100 * 1.958 = 196
Net CP spent: 2500 - 196 = 2304
Net CP cost per cover you care about: 2304 / 5.600 = 411

2) A store with 3 characters you care about at 50 CP per pull
100 pulls x 50 CP = 5000 CP
Covers you care about: 100 x 0.150 = 15
Shard Covers: 100 x 0.006 = 0.600
CP returned: 100 * 1.958 = 196
Net CP spent: 5000 - 196 = 4804
Net CP cost per cover you care about: 4804 / 15.600 = 308

So next I used Solver to determine what CP cost would generate a net CP cost per cover of 250, the current cost for a Classic H4H. The closest answer was 41 CP per pull.

100 pulls x 41 CP = 4100 CP
Covers you care about: 100 x 0.150 = 15
Shard Covers: 100 x 0.006 = 0.600
CP returned: 100 * 1.958 = 196
Net CP spent: 4100 - 196 = 3904
Net CP cost per cover you care about: 3904 / 15.600 = 250

EDIT: added a bit more of the interim calculations for clarity.