***** Magneto (Age of Apocalypse) *****

Vhailorx

Bad said:

LavaManLee said:.

Not underrating him at all.  He is bad.  Just absolutely bad.  At what point is it good to have one of your 5* airborn for three turns for max damage?  It makes no sense.  There is no underrating.  He is just not good.  At all.

But he still is buffing his tiles. He has an unbelievable destructive power and an unbelievable defensive one. Did you wanted speed too?
I think it fits the character really well, in fact levitating is a thing he uses to do.
Apocalypse is slow too and no one could say he is bad.
It could be that the era of speedy battles is going to end.

"unbelievable destructive power," really?  He requires 10 + 24 ap do + 3 turns to do <100k damage.  for 7 + 7 + 7 ap and 2 turns, apoc can do even more damage while ignoring protect tiles with his red.  5Mags nuke is pretty high damage, but it's not at all out of line with the current damage meta.  it's just harder to use effectively. (Just to add specific numbers, 5mags will do about 67k damage assuming he can make all 8 hits.  and if you have any strike tiles out, you can 8x their value, but getting strikes would cost 9 red ap.  If apoc casts yellow, waits two turns to get 4+ protect tiles out on the board, and then casts both red and black, he will do about 120k assuming a 3/5/5 build.  so that's about +80% damage, for 13 less ap, in 1 fewer turns.)

You are trying too hard to like him.  he just isn't especially good (on paper or in the "introducing" event, though we should defer a final consensus view until more champed 5mags are in the wild.).  He may not be close to the worst 5* in the game, but I still don't see any way that is not much too slow and clunky to be top tier. 

Tiger_Wong

Give his blue a new mechanic. Instead of AIRBORNE, give him HOVER.

HOVER : With this mechanic, he can be targeted with single attack damage but not with team damage or random attacks. He can also still make matches and fire powers. Then when he returns from HOVER, he does the “big damage”.

Bad

Vhailorx said:

"unbelievable destructive power," really?  He requires 10 + 24 ap do + 3 turns to do <100k damage.  for 7 + 7 + 7 ap and 2 turns, apoc can do even more damage while ignoring protect tiles with his red.  5Mags nuke is pretty high damage, but it's not at all out of line with the current damage meta.  it's just harder to use effectively. (Just to add specific numbers, 5mags will do about 67k damage assuming he can make all 7 hits.  and if you have any strike tiles out, you can 8x their value, but getting strikes would cost 9 red ap.  If apoc casts yellow, waits two turns to get 4+ protect tiles out on the board, and then casts both red and black, he will do about 120k assuming a 3/5/5 build.  so that's about +80% damage, for 13 less ap, in 1 fewer turns.)

You are trying too hard to like him.  he just isn't especially good (on paper or in the "introducing" event, though we should defer a final consensus view until more champed 5mags are in the wild.).  He may not be close to the worst 5* in the game, but I still don't see any way that is not much too slow and clunky to be top tier. 

As I said he is not wasting yellow. So he can use his turns collecting more blue for to down almost anyone. Unbelievable destructive power, this is it. Because with strikes or with other damage multipliers he can destroy without taking damage.
Having another one who collects blue for him. Like vulture.
Edit: I just confirmed he is not using yellow and also hits damage others if downed.

wymtime

Bad said:

Vhailorx said:

"unbelievable destructive power," really?  He requires 10 + 24 ap do + 3 turns to do <100k damage.  for 7 + 7 + 7 ap and 2 turns, apoc can do even more damage while ignoring protect tiles with his red.  5Mags nuke is pretty high damage, but it's not at all out of line with the current damage meta.  it's just harder to use effectively. (Just to add specific numbers, 5mags will do about 67k damage assuming he can make all 7 hits.  and if you have any strike tiles out, you can 8x their value, but getting strikes would cost 9 red ap.  If apoc casts yellow, waits two turns to get 4+ protect tiles out on the board, and then casts both red and black, he will do about 120k assuming a 3/5/5 build.  so that's about +80% damage, for 13 less ap, in 1 fewer turns.)

You are trying too hard to like him.  he just isn't especially good (on paper or in the "introducing" event, though we should defer a final consensus view until more champed 5mags are in the wild.).  He may not be close to the worst 5* in the game, but I still don't see any way that is not much too slow and clunky to be top tier. 

As I said he is not wasting yellow. So he can use his turns collecting more blue for to down almost anyone. Unbelievable destructive power, this is it. Because with strikes or with other damage multipliers he can destroy without taking damage.
Having another one who collects blue for him. Like vulture.
Edit: I just confirmed he is not using yellow and also hits damage others if downed.

I think it is just time you put your CP where your mouth is.  Please champ him when he goes into LL store and post some videos of how awesome he is.  A PVP match against BRB/Kitty, a PVP match against Okoye/IHulk and a Sim match against an IHulk team.  This way to can show us how awesome he is, how long it takes to actually win a match with him in PVP and Sim compared to other teams.

LavaManLee

Vhailorx said:

LavaManLee said:

He really is a hot mess.  I have no idea what the Devs were thinking when they created him.  He is potentially one of the worst 5* at this point.

He's definitely not the worst 5*.  Wasp can't do anything half as useful as make strength 600 strike tiles, or boost protect tiles, or steal enemy tiles.  It's really no contest.

Didn't say he was the worst.  Simply one of the worst.  I definitely put him at the bottom of the heap.  And, unfortunately, there is definitely a large group of 5*s that make up the heap.

Bad

wymtime said:

I think it is just time you put your CP where your mouth is.  Please champ him when he goes into LL store and post some videos of how awesome he is.  A PVP match against BRB/Kitty, a PVP match against Okoye/IHulk and a Sim match against an IHulk team.  This way to can show us how awesome he is, how long it takes to actually win a match with him in PVP and Sim compared to other teams.

Sorry but no. I will champ him almost when he leaves, as I am champing almost every 5*.
And Im not needing to watch anything for understanding how good he is.
I think its a great designing as the player can choose for him to stay in land or send him flying.
Another time Im repeating he is not wasting yellow with his airborne, so everytime he flies he will deal more damage. Brb and polaris  will provide him enough blue if that is what the player needs.
Or he can use his cheap yellow to mess tiles and fortify more the board along with red powers and with brb blue.
I think you can imagine that without videos.
Less speed winning but saving health packs. 
But that is not making him bad, in the opposite. One thing good of this game is that players will end showing you wich character is good and wich not.

Vhailorx

Bad said:

Vhailorx said:

"unbelievable destructive power," really?  He requires 10 + 24 ap do + 3 turns to do <100k damage.  for 7 + 7 + 7 ap and 2 turns, apoc can do even more damage while ignoring protect tiles with his red.  5Mags nuke is pretty high damage, but it's not at all out of line with the current damage meta.  it's just harder to use effectively. (Just to add specific numbers, 5mags will do about 67k damage assuming he can make all 7 hits.  and if you have any strike tiles out, you can 8x their value, but getting strikes would cost 9 red ap.  If apoc casts yellow, waits two turns to get 4+ protect tiles out on the board, and then casts both red and black, he will do about 120k assuming a 3/5/5 build.  so that's about +80% damage, for 13 less ap, in 1 fewer turns.)

You are trying too hard to like him.  he just isn't especially good (on paper or in the "introducing" event, though we should defer a final consensus view until more champed 5mags are in the wild.).  He may not be close to the worst 5* in the game, but I still don't see any way that is not much too slow and clunky to be top tier. 

As I said he is not wasting yellow. So he can use his turns collecting more blue for to down almost anyone. Unbelievable destructive power, this is it. Because with strikes or with other damage multipliers he can destroy without taking damage.
Having another one who collects blue for him. Like vulture.
Edit: I just confirmed he is not using yellow and also hits damage others if downed.

It's not really about whether or not he uses the yellow.  That does make the power more efficient for multiple casts.  but it's still 3 turns every time.  And apoc remains more efficient even on second casts (where he can do ~51k per 7 red ap or ~7.2k/ap, as opposed to 67k per 10 blue ap or ~6.7k/ap for 5mags).

No one is saying that you can't like 5Mags' kit or his playstyle.  I think only LavaManLee is saying that 5Mags straight up sucks.  All I want you to do is keep your enthusiasm for 5Mags in perspective given the other options we already have in the game.

(And as for brb+polaris giving him enough blue, I think you are doing it wrong to use his blue over either of their superior blue powers.  Saying "one of the best possible synergies in the game + this new character will be AMAZING!" might be true.  but it doesn't really say much about the new character).

DAZ0273

He seems pretty easy to counter to me. You could bring along Doc Strange and you can AP suppress and special tile destroy against Mags, not to mention stunning an ally if he does go airbourne for a 3 v 1 several round advantage. All the while you are destroying any enemy banked yellow so to lesson the effect of his blue. And Doc Strange is a years old fella!

Polares

He is clearly not the worst, but he is very disappointing / depressing. This is a char that could have been way better if Devs had a clear idea what they wanted him to excel at. I mean, is he an airbome monster like Vulture? Is he a shield/buff char? Is he a damage dealer? Sadly it is neither of those, even though it tries to be all of them. Some very stupid game design decisions will drag him forever, and that is sad. 

At the very least Devs should fix characters like this one after they are released and it is obvious they missed the mark. Sadly looks like Devs don’t care anymore about anything. 

One thing is realising chars that are not meta, like OMD, Killm, onslaught, etc. but that serve a purpose in the game and are good all around, but when chars like this Magneto are released it is pretty sad, specially when the char is so loved inside Marvel comics...

PS: Small tweaks like making him generate yellow tiles will he is airbone or even passively reduce repeaters by 1 or even 2 while he is airbone would make him so much better and give a justification for why he stays airbome so much. He MUST do something while he is airbone!

ammenell

I'm a victim of my own anticipation. 
somebody wrote about a new 5* and that char is aoa magneto.
was super excited, jumped to the details and... 

last time I felt like this was when reading 5* carols character page the first time. 

Uber_mpq

Will pair well with apoc by the looks of it

Vhailorx

Uber_mpq said:

Will pair well with apoc by the looks of it

Not sure I agree with you (at least beyond the extent that apoc generically pairs well with anyone who deals mutliple damage ticks).  They overlap on 2/3 colors, and the only way to build them that makes sense is 5Mags 5/3/5, and Apoc 5/3/5.  so right away you are running apoc suboptimally off the bat just to accommodate 5mag's less good red (otherwise you are doubling up on two red powers that will compete AND crippling apoc's black).  and the team has almost no ap acceleration or passive damage to speak of, so you will really be at the mercy of the board too. 

Borstock

Tiger_Wong said:

Give his blue a new mechanic. Instead of AIRBORNE, give him HOVER.

HOVER : With this mechanic, he can be targeted with single attack damage but not with team damage or random attacks. He can also still make matches and fire powers. Then when he returns from HOVER, he does the “big damage”.

I kinda like that.

SaltnPeppa

Someone in the dev design team must like Grey's Anatomy.   Magneto's side profile looks like an older Patrick Dempsey.

wymtime

Bad said:

wymtime said:

I think it is just time you put your CP where your mouth is.  Please champ him when he goes into LL store and post some videos of how awesome he is.  A PVP match against BRB/Kitty, a PVP match against Okoye/IHulk and a Sim match against an IHulk team.  This way to can show us how awesome he is, how long it takes to actually win a match with him in PVP and Sim compared to other teams.

Sorry but no. I will champ him almost when he leaves, as I am champing almost every 5*.
And Im not needing to watch anything for understanding how good he is.
I think its a great designing as the player can choose for him to stay in land or send him flying.
Another time Im repeating he is not wasting yellow with his airborne, so everytime he flies he will deal more damage. Brb and polaris  will provide him enough blue if that is what the player needs.
Or he can use his cheap yellow to mess tiles and fortify more the board along with red powers and with brb blue.
I think you can imagine that without videos.
Less speed winning but saving health packs. 
But that is not making him bad, in the opposite. One thing good of this game is that players will end showing you wich character is good and wich not.

Amazingly enough I don’t need to imagine anything I have had a chance to play him in Introducing events.  He is slow, and in order to make his blue so significant damage requires generating a lot of AP you will never use.  In a lot of matches just getting his blue to hit took multiple attempts using 3* friendlies.  Using BRB and Polaris to save health packs at the cost of significant time is what you are trying to do.  If I want to save health packs I could also use Hawkey, Gamora, Coulson which is a better team for challenge nodes.  

You also said Apocalypse is slow yet I went into Sim and won a match in 4 turns with him??  That’s slow??  I do full clear in CL10 in good time without using a ton of health packs and play a lot of PVP without going through a ton of health packs.  All you are doing with Magneto is reducing match damage 1 turn earlier on an already slow team. 

Bad

wymtime said:

You also said Apocalypse is slow yet I went into Sim and won a match in 4 turns with him??  That’s slow??  I do full clear in CL10 in good time without using a ton of health packs and play a lot of PVP without going through a ton of health packs.  All you are doing with Magneto is reducing match damage 1 turn earlier on an already slow team. 

Wow! Congratulations! So do I.
Sorry but apocalypse is slow, or at least the most slow of the 3 damage multipliers. Having yellow at the start of a match doesnt grants it be there always. Im saying this because Im always using him, of course.
Brb polaris and magneto is a slow team? Did you saw brb and polaris in pvp? Because I saw him a lot of times. Would he not be a great reinforcer for that meta? He buffs on deploy all protect tiles, is that reducing match damage 1 turn earlier? I dont think so.
If another 5* xmen spamming protect appears, could not he be a lot more dangerous?.
I would like to think that in this game there can be play outside the 3 meta multipliers.

I think I already said all what I could without having him champed. So I think its ridiculous being here repeating and repeating. Time will tell.

Vhailorx

I kinda think apoc is neither especially slow nor especially fast.  He has cheap powers so he is reasonably quick once you get some ap.  But he has no self acceleration or passive damage output, so he is much more battery/board/boost dependent than most other meta characrers/teams.

Vhailorx

Bad said:

<Snip>

I would like to think that in this game there can be play outside the 3 meta multipliers.

I think I already said all what I could without having him champed. So I think its ridiculous being here repeating and repeating. Time will tell.

So you concede that 5mags does not seem likely to be in the meta?  I think that's basically all thatost of us are saying in our responses to you.  IMO, 5mags doesn't seem likely to suck, but he has significant drawbacks that seem likely to keep him out of top tier play.

Maybe you dont really feel this way. But when I read your posts it seems like you are going up 5mags as a meta-shakimg new release and I just can't agree with that assessment.  As you say, however, time will tell.

wymtime

Bad said:

wymtime said:

You also said Apocalypse is slow yet I went into Sim and won a match in 4 turns with him??  That’s slow??  I do full clear in CL10 in good time without using a ton of health packs and play a lot of PVP without going through a ton of health packs.  All you are doing with Magneto is reducing match damage 1 turn earlier on an already slow team. 

Wow! Congratulations! So do I.
Sorry but apocalypse is slow, or at least the most slow of the 3 damage multipliers. Having yellow at the start of a match doesnt grants it be there always. Im saying this because Im always using him, of course.
Brb polaris and magneto is a slow team? Did you saw brb and polaris in pvp? Because I saw him a lot of times. Would he not be a great reinforcer for that meta? He buffs on deploy all protect tiles, is that reducing match damage 1 turn earlier? I dont think so.
If another 5* xmen spamming protect appears, could not he be a lot more dangerous?.
I would like to think that in this game there can be play outside the 3 meta multipliers.

I think I already said all what I could without having him champed. So I think its ridiculous being here repeating and repeating. Time will tell.

I see BRB and Polaris some times in PVP very rarely be used Polaris is so squishy it is an extremly easy team to beat.  If the AI doesn’t match protect tiles the team is destroyed quickly.  Same thing will happen with your team.  Bring Kitty and get rid of the protect tiles ASAP and the team is done.  Mags protect tile buff does nothing of there are no protect tiles out.

you are putting mags in as a third on a niche team saying he is amazing.  Yet you add Apocalypse to your team and he gets more protect tiles out and buffs them damage you do and has more health.  You can add 4* Thanos to BRB/Polaris and you have winfinity.  You add Kitty to BRB/Polaris and turn 3 match damage is down to 1.  Your argument is basically  to add this 3rd to Thor/Okoye and they are awesome!!  That is not a good character it is a character made good by Okoye.  You are just adding Mags to 2 Meta characters calling him the 3rd.

the reality is Mags is slow to get rolling.  His blue while powerful is conditional on having enough yellow AP and you have to wait 3 turns for it to hit. His red is not good.  This is easy to see as I have play tested it.

enjoy your Mags they way you will just please stop saying he is meta shaking and amazing in this nieche 3 character group.

Bad

wymtime said:
  Your argument is basically  to add this 3rd to Thor/Okoye and they are awesome!!  That is not a good character it is a character made good by Okoye.  You are just adding Mags to 2 Meta characters calling him the 3rd.

the reality is Mags is slow to get rolling.  His blue while powerful is conditional on having enough yellow AP and you have to wait 3 turns for it to hit. His red is not good.  This is easy to see as I have play tested it.

enjoy your Mags they way you will just please stop saying he is meta shaking and amazing in this nieche 3 character group.

In any case its the same because his passive is stronger with every xmen and also he needs a protect meta. Im not saying he is amazing adding him to a meta team. His powers are what they are saying it.
Im not conceding he will not be meta either in a brb polaris team or on a britty team, and those 2 will be on his pvp.
Meta is defined by players playing it, not by forumers. On 3 months it will be clear.
P.S: and those types of supporting powers, like converting enemy special tiles or raising protect, is what makes a classic character still playable. Like thor's. Or okoye. Or kitty.