polaris quest

13

Comments

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,189 Chairperson of the Boards
    DAZ0273 said:
    Do we no longer consider C4rol meta? I think she might pop up quite a bit in our hypothetical PvP.

    Carol is no longer Meta in 4* land. However, if Grocket/Polaris/Juggs/Karnak/America are locked out she'd instantly be meta again in any PvP. She's just too slow against all of the above characters who can kill her by turn 4-6 with their passives so the only way she does any damage is if her own passive goes off (same strongest colors) which is quite rare.
    KGB
  • Southside84
    Southside84 Posts: 93 Match Maker
    Boosting polaris and locking out her best counters was just evil.  This PVP was the worst one yet
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,939 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2020
    HoundofShadow said:
    Imagine all these characters get locked out in PvP:

    3*: Dr Strange, Iron Fist, IM40

    4*: Polaris, R4G, America Chavez, Karnak, Juggernaut, Medusa, Peggy Carter, Vulture

    5*: Apocalypse, BRB, Carbage, Kitty Pryde, Okoye, Prof $, Thanos, Immortal Hulk



    I’d absolutely love it. I’m sure Daredevil would be my most played.  I’d expect to see a lot of Onslaught, Jessica, Doom and Deadpool on defense in the 5* tier. But each of them are manageable. 

    It’d never happen though because there are far too many players who only chase the good characters and don’t really think of this as a collector’s game.  
  • Michael1957
    Michael1957 Posts: 630 Critical Contributor
    Daredevil217 said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    Imagine all these characters get locked out in PvP:

    3*: Dr Strange, Iron Fist, IM40

    4*: Polaris, R4G, America Chavez, Karnak, Juggernaut, Medusa, Peggy Carter, Vulture

    5*: Apocalypse, BRB, Carbage, Kitty Pryde, Okoye, Prof $, Thanos, Immortal Hulk



    I’d absolutely love it. I’m sure Daredevil would be my most played.  I’d expect to see a lot of Onslaught, Jessica, Doom and Deadpool on defense in the 5* tier. But each of them are manageable. 

    It’d never happen though because there are far too many players who only chase the good characters and don’t really think of this as a collector’s game.  
    It’s NOT a collectors game!  This is analogous to thinking war is about capturing the most enemy and not winning the battles . As in life , winning is the true only goal . 
  • AlexR
    AlexR Posts: 453 Mover and Shaker
    edited December 2020
    Michael1957 said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    Imagine all these characters get locked out in PvP:

    3*: Dr Strange, Iron Fist, IM40

    4*: Polaris, R4G, America Chavez, Karnak, Juggernaut, Medusa, Peggy Carter, Vulture

    5*: Apocalypse, BRB, Carbage, Kitty Pryde, Okoye, Prof $, Thanos, Immortal Hulk



    I’d absolutely love it. I’m sure Daredevil would be my most played.  I’d expect to see a lot of Onslaught, Jessica, Doom and Deadpool on defense in the 5* tier. But each of them are manageable. 

    It’d never happen though because there are far too many players who only chase the good characters and don’t really think of this as a collector’s game.  
    It’s NOT a collectors game!  This is analogous to thinking war is about capturing the most enemy and not winning the battles . As in life , winning is the true only goal . 

    But it is. You don't have to care about the collecting aspect, but the game itself clearly values collecting all characters (essential characters in PvE/DDQ, champing rewards).
    If you don't care about the collection aspect, then that's your prerogative, but there's nothing wrong with it being also a collection game and people enjoying the collecting aspect. /shrug. The analogue I'd use would rather be Pokemon: There's people who want to be the very best and then there's people who wanna catch 'em all. Both are perfectly fine ways to have fun in a game.
  • Mr_F
    Mr_F Posts: 723 Critical Contributor
    The problem with Polaris starts with that she so good that not using her is a hindarance. She provides two, most crucial things:
    1. Safety and/or speed. If you can not finish fast, due to for example bad board, then et least you are most likely to win.
    2. Health pack preservence.
    And those thing are crucial. People want to play shorter. They want to like play 30 minutes and do like 10 fights and still have health packs to do other PVP's or PVE.
    I am not surprised that she is so widely used. She is so often that I do my 13 wins for 13, skip the rest. I Even skip simulator even thou its Spider-Ham shards. And I will skip the others seasons too: too much effort for one cover.
    I knew from the beggining that she will be so much dominant. So...
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,939 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2020
    Mr_F said:
    The problem with Polaris starts with that she so good that not using her is a hindarance. She provides two, most crucial things:
    1. Safety and/or speed. If you can not finish fast, due to for example bad board, then et least you are most likely to win.
    2. Health pack preservence.
    And those thing are crucial. People want to play shorter. They want to like play 30 minutes and do like 10 fights and still have health packs to do other PVP's or PVE.
    I am not surprised that she is so widely used. She is so often that I do my 13 wins for 13, skip the rest. I Even skip simulator even thou its Spider-Ham shards. And I will skip the others seasons too: too much effort for one cover.
    I knew from the beggining that she will be so much dominant. So...
    As a 5* player I actually find her to be well balanced. She’s more Worthy than Bishop to me, and I never really felt Worthy was problematic. With Polaris, I feel you need three people to make her work, in the same way Worthy did. Worthy needed Hawkeye to create AP and someone like Jessica to use it. So was only really seen in pick 3. 

    Polaris, similarly needs someone to put a bunch of specials on the board early (Carbage, Bill, Rocket) and Kitty to buff them (Kitty is her Hawkeye). So again, I mostly only see her in pick 3. 

    Both Worthy and Polaris’ biggest asset were/are in PVE challenge nodes where their tricks could/can be exploited to guarantee victory once the engine is started.  Their main difference is Polaris is much easier to take out due to her lower health and lack of damage reduction. 

    I only feel she saves packs with Bill/Kitty, but they do that on their own. I also don’t think she guarantees victory. The only thing that really matters in this game if you play competitively is speed (and to a lesser extent defense in PVP). Her tile spam is definitely an accelerant, which makes the game faster, and thus people are prone to using her. 
    I’m guessing the folks that found Worthy “broken” are likely to find Polaris “broken” as well. The folks (like myself) who thought he was definitely good/top tier but not “broken” probably have the same reaction to Polaris. Though personally the only person I actively campaigned to get nerfed into the ground was Bishop.
  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,413 Chairperson of the Boards
    Polaris does not have enough health to be broken, IMHO.  You hardly ever see her out on defense in SCL10/5* PVP like you would Bishop.  As mentioned above, she really needs two others to best complement her.  So, usually, the required char in PVP is not much help to her and she is an easy target in SCL10 PVP.  Thus, again at least to me, I do not think she is broken like Bishop was.
  • Mr_F
    Mr_F Posts: 723 Critical Contributor
    I agree. But I'll add my 5 cents as a 4* player:
    Overall She is more balanced than Bishop ever was but at the same time, in 4* land, stronger than Bishop ever was. I've been eating Bishop teams at breakfast but with Polaris I just prefer to skip, if possible. Fighting her is just flip coining: you never can be enough sure that its safe to enter the fight.
    She saves healthpacks because you just switch her special tile spammer partner and play to keep her alive. You can run few fights per every partner before that one's health is too ow to enter. And she is easily do her spaming with only one special tile on board.
    Think about it that way: 5 figths with X, 5 with Y and so on. And some can go even 10 or 20 before health is too low. Repeat 2-3 times per day. I can easily think about a dozen of possible partners. With her I can do PVP events outside simulator in two runs. I choose two only because I wait for pts drop for easier enemies.
    She is the reason I am skiping most of the PVP now. I preffer to keep my sanity and not to frustrate myself so you know.

    Is she broken? Nope. Is he OP? Yes. She is so OP that many times its better to use her in place of boosted 4*.  After the Spider-Ham event I deciced to not use her. At least that is what I can do. And if because of that If I will be unable to do PVP so be it. I refuse to use character who so blalantly since we saw her kit destroy game healthiness.
  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,189 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2020
    The people who are struggling with her are much more likely to be 4* players than 5* players. She dominates the 4* meta in PvP. In Reunions for example after 700 points every team was Polaris/Medusa/Carnage or Polaris/Medusa/Juggs.
    In more normal PvP (where she isn't boosted and/or others aren't locked out) she is still everywhere. But at least there I can normally skip 5-6 times and find a team that she isn't on, or is on with team mates that I can handle.
    Personally, I run her and Rocket to 900 points quite easily in 4* PvP (1 health pack maybe needed). I never use the boosted characters at all anymore (I used to use them prior to her release once I hit 750 range and Juggs/Grocket stopped being viable).
    The thing with fighting her is that one cascade for the AI can wipe or nearly wipe a 4* character (easily 10-12K  damage). It's mostly because her passive procs in the middle of cascades (ie make a match, she adds her specials THEN gems fall/cascade which can trigger her again and again if it keeps cascading. If her passive were to change so that it only added her specials (and damage per special) at the end of the match+cascade she'd be reigned in nicely but still be valuable (just not insane).
    KGB

  • Mr_F
    Mr_F Posts: 723 Critical Contributor
    Wow. That even worse that I fought.
    Lets be honest and compare her to Rocket & Groot.
    R&G are broken yet not OP. Its them who are essential in PVE fast teams and its them who turns up/turned up so many combos up to 11. And to do all of that they just need to be present. That's it. They are strong on both ofence and defence. Yet at the same time every of the team they created are easily beated by so many combinations making them to never needing nerf. I mean, unless some huge nerf will strike them, they always be present in any meta. That is a strange situation to me: I call them broken yet I know that they need no nerf.

    At the same time Polaris is not broken yet OP. ON defence She may be beaten before she gets crazy but she shines so much on ofence that people does not need to use anything else than her to get going. She is present in 90%+ teams in Simulator and "normal" PVP on all levels. She made boosted 4* obsolete. Rocket while being broken in my opinion has never did that on that scale. Even more! The only viable counter to her is to bring own Polaris and let her do her job. Its not like that you can not beat her with others but everytime you do you risk few hits as anyhing without her is so easily beaten by her teams that she makes anything else a cannon fodder. Includong herself.
  • AlexR
    AlexR Posts: 453 Mover and Shaker
    Mr_F said:
    [...] Even more! The only viable counter to her is to bring own Polaris and let her do her job

    Sabretooth, if it's Polaris/GRocket. All hail Sabretooth, I now run him like every pvp. Sabretooth is a very efficient and safe way to deal with GRocket/Polaris and makes them very easy teams to climb on.
    Though I still skip Polaris/undercovered BRB 4* teams. But that's more because of BRB passively winfiniting on defense with AP gain off Polaris than Polaris herself.
    But yeah, while Bishop was a 5* problem and never really that much of an issue for 4* players, Polaris is very much a 4* problem and dominates 4* land in a way I've never seen. Everything is now Polaris meta teams. I don't struggle with her, but I mourn the disappearing variety. Because you're right, even boosted characters are disappearing in favour of Polaris meta and Sim is 95% Polaris from pretty early on and it's just sad and boring and same-y. 
    I don't struggle with her and I don't really want her nerfed -- I don't think she's broken and there's counters to fight her and I enjoy her as a QoL feature in PvE - but frankly, 4* land pvp is much worse off with her than without her. To the point where I can't say that the thought of her getting nerfed isn't appealing just to get the variety back and make 4* pvp fun again.
    She's not broken enough that she needs the nerf, but I don't know what else could be done to stop this complete 95% dominance of this one character that is making the game less fun in 4* land. Maybe they need to just release a lot of anti-passive counter characters, idk.
  • Dogface
    Dogface Posts: 986 Critical Contributor
    Polaris is a puny character HP wise. If I encounter her in PVP and she's NOT accompanied by R&G or BRB, it's usually very easy. Focus on downing her first and the rest should play out in your advantage. 
    It's combinations that make her dangerous, but isn't that just one of the main characteristics of this game? Why else would we have teams of 3? 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    If a character is meta, naturally, they will appear more frequently. Such phenomenon exists in many other games.

    Before the existence of Polaris meta, it was Karnak and America Chavez. Before them, it was Juggernaut and R4G.

    I see a lot of options, apart from those generic solutions like stunning them or sending them airborne, to deal with Polaris: Medusa, Th4nos, Sabretooth, Mr Fantastic, Karnak, America Chavez, Juggernaut, Dazzler, Wiccan etc. If one still wants Polaris nerf despite the wide variety of counters available, then, perhaps, the best decision is to wait for a few more months for 4* meta to change in order to resolve those strong negative feelings.


  • AlexR
    AlexR Posts: 453 Mover and Shaker
    I'm not concerned about beating her; she isn't hard to beat. She's squishy and there are counters. (Though Medusa and Wiccan aren't exactly counters. But still, I get your point, yeah, she isn't hard to beat.)
    I'm concerned that she single-handedly seems to have killed variety in 4* land.
    And I don't mean "appears more frequently", I mean she's pushing out boosted 4* teams from pvp, she's that dominating and prevalent. I haven't really seen that with prior 4* metas to this extent. Even old Gritty, which was worlds harder to beat in 4* land before the introduction of Sabretooth than Polaris could ever be wasn't as dominating as this.
    And since there are counters already, I have no idea how you'd fix that issue. Would be nice if it just magically fixed itself in a couple months, but I'm not holding my breath.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Gritty, Karnak and America Chavez was common, so was Juggernaut and R4G.  And then there were Bishop and Worthy Cap as well. If you are hitting 700-800 points, you won't see a lot of varieties any way. We can replace Polaris with any future 4* meta character and the results will still be the same: seeing the same meta team over and over. The main difference is the available options we have to deal with them. I'm coming from a minimum number of wins needed to hit 1000 points point of view, and it's faster to hit 1000 points in the Polaris meta. 

    The fact that the dev will be releasing a counter to Polaris this week will help players to add one more option to deal with Polaris. Medusa and Throg?
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,088 Chairperson of the Boards
    Polaris is only a problem in the circumstances mentioned by @KGB above, otherwise she is squishy. My SHIELD SIM though is nothing but Kitty + Polaris and the lack of variety is mind numbing. So you join the problem but it isn't ideal or all that much fun.
  • Mr_F
    Mr_F Posts: 723 Critical Contributor
    edited December 2020
    AlexR said:
    Mr_F said:
    [...] Even more! The only viable counter to her is to bring own Polaris and let her do her job

    Sabretooth, if it's Polaris/GRocket.
    Sure. But Widely speaking, best option is own Polaris as usually players can do her spamming her easier/better than computer. I usually can kill her and/or stunlock her with my own Polaris before she goes grazy.
    And like many said before me, the problem is not lack of counters or inability to kill her. Its the fact no matter what Polaris is best option EVERYTIME and EVERYWHERE on ofence so she is dominating defence. Before her nobody has achiewed it on such scale as she did. 
    Like @AlexR said (and me too): SHE IS EVEN BETTER THAN BOOSTED 4*. I will repeat that: PEOPLE RUN NON-BOOSTED POLARIS IN PLACE OF BOOSTED 4*! Thats the problem!
    Do I want nerf? Not necessarily. I want something which makes running her a flip coin like this: I can go easy with her but if i do people will hit me with X and I will be pushed down the hill so maybe I will go for Y?
    I hope that Throg may be a solution.
  • AlexR
    AlexR Posts: 453 Mover and Shaker
    Mr_F said:
    [...]
    I hope that Throg may be a solution.
    Sadly, I'd be very surprised if Throg will even be a viable counter at all. A character that needs 8 AP to fire an ability that hits 4 random tiles which may be special tiles or not, just does not look like a reliable counter to a passive turn 1 meta character.
    I hope he proves me wrong, but until he does, I'm very doubtful.

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