Mpq 2020

HoundofShadow

It seems like you didn't notice the loaners given. These three sets of loaners (all at 1/1/1 build) synergise well with one another. Since you are pretty new, you can probably use this as an opportunity to familiarise yourself with how characters can boost up one another.

NemoAbernnigan

As a baby 4* player (just learned the term and I love it) I don't even have SCL10 unlocked yet, still over a dozen ranks away I think. That said, I didn't have any problems with the Class of event at SCL9. I've got Karnak champed, and one of all three of BRB's covers, so I can take that duo with either my level 200 something Polaris or my champed Chavez depending on the enemy team and win against the less powerful enemy teams, as there are plenty of other people who are still working on building up their own 4* rosters at my level.

I think the real trick is just to play the SCL you can realistically compete in. I used to play on lower SCL's than I had unlocked for a lot of events while I was still working on champing my Karnak and Chavez combo, sure you lose a bit of the rewards, but grabbing the covers and tokens you can, while ensuring you get the command points from completion is worth a lot more than failing to complete the event at a higher level because you can't beat anyone in that bracket. It's also worth noting that you don't have to get the full rewards in every event to make headway, sure you're not going to be able to roster, let alone champ every character you technically have an opportunity to grab a cover for if you're not going for the max rewards available to you, but in all honesty, you're not going to be able to do that without spending a ton anyways.

You can save all your tokens and slowly fill out each tier and never lose a cover on the vine, but I personally find that I have made better progress, at a faster rate, by not stressing the min max so much, and focusing more on personal goals, like champing my first 4* duo so I could play on a higher SCL, a goal that was satisfying to achieve, and also opened up a higher difficulty of play for me to feasibly tackle with any degree of success. That kept the game feeling fun and fresh, and also allowed me to set my sights on the next goal, namely building a second meta combo to use. All the while I was steadily building my 4* roster anyways, and that led to pleasant surprises like being able to tackle the higher tier DPDs on an increasingly regular basis, hell I've even cleared the whole thing several times recently- something that I had never been able to get close to only a few months prior.

Sorry for the rambling train of digressions, I guess I'm just trying to impress upon the other players who are still a ways away from the "lategame", as it were, that you don't have to measure your progress by what you COULD be getting if you did everything " right ". This is a game after all, it's supposed to be fun, not frustrating, and if you're not getting that experience with your play style, it's worth reconsidering the way you play. Remember, there are people who have been playing this for the better part of a decade, you simply are not going to be able to compete with them for quite some time without dropping enough cash to make Deadpool get down on one knee. If you're still at any point in the game before the deep deep 5* land, stop trying to be a "competitive" player! You're still leveling up! Remember to enjoy where you're at, and strive to reach your OWN goals.

DAZ0273

PSA: Shield Clearance Level has no gating effect on who you can or cannot fight against in PvP/Versus. This is a misconception that is repeated too often and is, in all honesty, really down to poor communication by the Devs.

The only thing that joining a lower PvP SCL achieves is determining who you are competing against for placement - so yes, higher SCL will no doubt have higher scores that a less developed roster has no chance of beating but if you played for 40 wins just for progression, playing in SCL9 is no harder than SCL7 in obtaining these wins. Otherwise - everybody in your time slice is a potential opponent under the right circumstances. Time slice selection has a huge influence on points available/variety of opponents, that doesn't mean all of these players are competing directly against you in your bracket/leaderboard.

I understand why newer players may think SCL protects them from being matched with higher level players  because PvE/Story mode IS gated by difficulty. However - PvP is gated by MMR - Match Making Ranking.

Here is the good news - MMR will generally protect you from "being seen" by players that are significantly higher levels than your roster.

Here is the bad news - MMR is affected by various things and appears to be able to stretch/search wider ranges than your MMR value, it can also be broken at certain thresholds (say 900 points) where your team may suddenly appear on the radar of more powerful rosters who can swat you.

All of this happens regardless of your SCL.

For any newer players reading this thread, here is one piece of golden advice: DON'T LEVEL YOUR 5*! 5* start at level 255 which already puts them high up most newer players ranks and it seems like a good idea to power up these characters when you get a few covers - THIS IS A BAD IDEA IF YOU LIKE PLAYING PVP! Until you have a stable of 4* characters as baby champs, keeping your 5* at base level is the way to go to stop the game mistaking your roster at being at a higher level than it really is and thus matching you against harder opponents.

tl/dr - Play the SCL you can manage in PvE but feel free to play any SCL you are eligable for in PvP providing you are not after placing highly.

jtsings

  If you happen to get another event that offers three loaners, like this one, try your best to join the slice right as it starts and only use the loaners.  Wait for retals and only use the loaners to retaliate.  (Most of your retals are going to be people with loaners too).  I'm currently on 48 wins with only using the loaner characters.  It does take a time commitment, but for me it's been somewhat entertaining because I like using Polaris and even her loaner can be pretty deadly at low levels with a favorable board.

Speed283

Thanks for all the tips everyone!

Daredevil217

pheregas said:

fight4thedream said:

While I understand both sides of the argument, I think the OP's complaint is valid and something worth considering. From what I understand, PvP is the less popular game mode and events like Class of do nothing to encourage players with less developed rosters to participate. 

One possible solution would be to make better use of the S.H.I.E.L.D. Rank feature. For players under a certain S.H.I.E.L.D. Rank events like Class of would be invisible or locked. Perhaps in their stead, they could run PvP events that are more new player friendly like Combined Arms, Balance of Power and Bag-man which in turn would be locked to players at a higher S.H.I.E.L.D. Rank. I suppose rewards should also be different, something that would be more immediately useful for younger rosters.

Another possible solution is to just provide all players access to character sets for that event.

Heroics were discontinued because they were restrictive for newer players and I believe Class Of events suffer from the same issue. Yes, there is a good argument to be had that such events reward dedication and building up one's roster but I don't think it should come at the expense of a significant portion of players feeling left out. Either hide such events from them using S.H.I.E.L.D. Rank so they are not aware they are missing out or provide an alternative.

But it seems I am repeating myself now so I will leave it that.

I have a fully developed roster with just about every character in the 2020 tier champed.  And I still stay away from this event.

Roster diversity has always been the most interesting part of PVP since you are forced to use an essential character.  This can lead to some non-meta uses of characters, which is fine and gives it a little spice.  But this particular event, since there is such a relatively small amount of characters to be used, is almost designed to be dominated by whales.  Especially so since recent game changes have made many of us pick and choose who to hoard for.  If you are a player like me, who's collector mentality wants all characters champed independent of how high they end up, it means that all my available characters 5* characters will be lower level than those that chose to hoard.

This disparity is only becoming more evident in the current 2020 PVP and it's simply not fun.  But that's just my opinion.  This rant was not meant to throw whales under the bus.  I firmly believe that whales should have a competitive edge due to their financial investment, but that does not mean that I believe that whales should have the exclusive opportunity to even try to compete in an event either.

Interesting take. I tend to find “regular PVP” way way less diverse. With no Okoye, Kitty, Grocket or Thor, this has been the best PVP I’ve played in while with regards to opponent diversity. I’m missing Heim/Daken/Pool, but have the rest champed.  It’s been fun getting to use my “newest toys” (especially Polaris) without a sea of Hulkoyes to sift through. I played around with a number of teams (came in with 6 “saved teams” queued) but Carnage/Bill/Polaris was by far the most brutal on offense. It was fun countering those teams by trying to one-shot Polaris with Onslaught (usually flanked by BillPocalypse). Weird seeing Hulk be such a non-factor when he’s such a big part of the normal meta scene. 

pheregas

Daredevil217 said:

pheregas said:

fight4thedream said:

While I understand both sides of the argument, I think the OP's complaint is valid and something worth considering. From what I understand, PvP is the less popular game mode and events like Class of do nothing to encourage players with less developed rosters to participate. 

One possible solution would be to make better use of the S.H.I.E.L.D. Rank feature. For players under a certain S.H.I.E.L.D. Rank events like Class of would be invisible or locked. Perhaps in their stead, they could run PvP events that are more new player friendly like Combined Arms, Balance of Power and Bag-man which in turn would be locked to players at a higher S.H.I.E.L.D. Rank. I suppose rewards should also be different, something that would be more immediately useful for younger rosters.

Another possible solution is to just provide all players access to character sets for that event.

Heroics were discontinued because they were restrictive for newer players and I believe Class Of events suffer from the same issue. Yes, there is a good argument to be had that such events reward dedication and building up one's roster but I don't think it should come at the expense of a significant portion of players feeling left out. Either hide such events from them using S.H.I.E.L.D. Rank so they are not aware they are missing out or provide an alternative.

But it seems I am repeating myself now so I will leave it that.

I have a fully developed roster with just about every character in the 2020 tier champed.  And I still stay away from this event.

Roster diversity has always been the most interesting part of PVP since you are forced to use an essential character.  This can lead to some non-meta uses of characters, which is fine and gives it a little spice.  But this particular event, since there is such a relatively small amount of characters to be used, is almost designed to be dominated by whales.  Especially so since recent game changes have made many of us pick and choose who to hoard for.  If you are a player like me, who's collector mentality wants all characters champed independent of how high they end up, it means that all my available characters 5* characters will be lower level than those that chose to hoard.

This disparity is only becoming more evident in the current 2020 PVP and it's simply not fun.  But that's just my opinion.  This rant was not meant to throw whales under the bus.  I firmly believe that whales should have a competitive edge due to their financial investment, but that does not mean that I believe that whales should have the exclusive opportunity to even try to compete in an event either.

Interesting take. I tend to find “regular PVP” way way less diverse. With no Okoye, Kitty, Grocket or Thor, this has been the best PVP I’ve played in while with regards to opponent diversity. I’m missing Heim/Daken/Pool, but have the rest champed.  It’s been fun getting to use my “newest toys” (especially Polaris) without a sea of Hulkoyes to sift through. I played around with a number of teams (came in with 6 “saved teams” queued) but Carnage/Bill/Polaris was by far the most brutal on offense. It was fun countering those teams by trying to one-shot Polaris with Onslaught (usually flanked by BillPocalypse). Weird seeing Hulk be such a non-factor when he’s such a big part of the normal meta scene. 

I should be clear that anything 400 points and up is the meta for most PVP.  Playing around with synergy and exploring different options definitely comes before you float or actively climb.  

That being said, I really try my best to not float with greater than 400 points.  I just don't like it when my q's are clogged with the same three meta teams that I hate to play against.  So I do my very best to not contribute to that by not floating high.

Rhipf

DAZ0273 said:

...

tl/dr - Play the SCL you can manage in PvE but feel free to play any SCL you are eligable for in PvP providing you are not after placing highly.

I may be wrong but isn't there a bit of a caveat to this?

The higher SCL you play the less teams of your roster strength and lower there are for you to get matched to. Once you get enough points you will have less of these similar rosters to be matched with and the system will match you with more high roster opponents. You will need to do a lot more skips to find an adequate match or you will need to hit above your roster sooner in the higher SCLs.

As I said I could be totally wrong on this though.

Mr_F

Yes, but those who are above you will bring you down. When I want that to happen I set easier to beat defensive team that my Cardusa or Anti AOE (Juggs/Quake, Spider-Woman) teams and playing for wins is easy enough. Occasionally in some PVP I can hit 1000 pts. Its all ok for me. And the rewards are better even if I skip some top ones.

BriMan2222

Rhipf said:

DAZ0273 said:

...

tl/dr - Play the SCL you can manage in PvE but feel free to play any SCL you are eligable for in PvP providing you are not after placing highly.

I may be wrong but isn't there a bit of a caveat to this?

The higher SCL you play the less teams of your roster strength and lower there are for you to get matched to. Once you get enough points you will have less of these similar rosters to be matched with and the system will match you with more high roster opponents. You will need to do a lot more skips to find an adequate match or you will need to hit above your roster sooner in the higher SCLs.

As I said I could be totally wrong on this though.

No, scl level effects nothing except the reward bracket you are in.  You will be matched against the same teams your mmr decides you should see no matter what scl you play.  The only difference is the people you are competing for placement rewards against and the value of rewards in progression and placement.

For example I can play scl 10 and score 1200 points and wind up with a final placement score of top 25 or sometimes top 10 in the time slice I play, or I could choose SCL 8 in the same slice and fight the same teams that I would have in scl 10 but my 1200 score might get me a top 5 or even number one final score.   For me I think the better rewards of scl 10 make up for the lower placement.

Mr_F

Nope. SCL WILL decide some opponets. I mean, the roster develpment is tied to SCL in PVP - I do not expect someone from SCL5 to have 5* champion - at best few 4*, if chased. Same, I am ecpecting 5* champions in SCL8 and above. Etc. Yes, different players may find different opponents types in same SCL (like I do not see three 5* champion teams yet).

Of course, I am talking PVP only.

BriMan2222

Mr_F said:

Nope. SCL WILL decide some opponets. I mean, the roster develpment is tied to SCL in PVP - I do not expect someone from SCL5 to have 5* champion - at best few 4*, if chased. Same, I am ecpecting 5* champions in SCL8 and above. Etc. Yes, different players may find different opponents types in same SCL (like I do not see three 5* champion teams yet).

Of course, I am talking PVP only.

No, scl level you choose does not effect your opponents.  Now your shield rank does determine what scl you can choose in pvp. I think the lowest one I can choose is scl 8. But, if I were a billionaire and money was no object to me I could start a new account right now,  go find a buy club and buy the 100 dollar hp and iso purchases until I have enough cp to champ and max out the 3 five stars in latest legends.

I would then be a player with 3 lvl 550 five stars but still at low shield rank and playing pvp in scl 1.  My mmr would tell the game that I am a lvl 550 five star player and match me against other similar level five star teams.  My 550 five star team wouldn't be able to attack all the one star teams that im in the same scl as.  I would however easily take the number 1 finisher spot in scl 1.

Mr_F

BriMan2222 said:

Now your shield rank does determine what scl you can choose in pvp.

That is why I said your SCL determines opponents. Yes, theoretically you can be do what ya described but realistically speaking if i saw such opponent with me being just 1* and 2* I would skip him immidiatetly, which bring us to the very beggining: your scl to some degree determine your opponents.

BriMan2222

Mr_F said:

BriMan2222 said:

Now your shield rank does determine what scl you can choose in pvp.

That is why I said your SCL determines opponents. Yes, theoretically you can be do what ya described but realistically speaking if i saw such opponent with me being just 1* and 2* I would skip him immidiatetly, which bring us to the very beggining: your scl to some degree determine your opponents.

I don't think you understood what I was saying  If you were just a 1* or 2* player you wouldn't skip him, because you wouldn't even be able to see him.  Even if you were in the same scl and same bracket as him, his roster would be invisible to the 1* and 2* rosters and they would not show up for him.  He would be getting matched against all the 5 star players playing in scl 10 because scl does nothing to determine your opponents, your roster strength does.

DAZ0273

BriMan2222 said:

Mr_F said:

BriMan2222 said:

Now your shield rank does determine what scl you can choose in pvp.

That is why I said your SCL determines opponents. Yes, theoretically you can be do what ya described but realistically speaking if i saw such opponent with me being just 1* and 2* I would skip him immidiatetly, which bring us to the very beggining: your scl to some degree determine your opponents.

I don't think you understood what I was saying  If you were just a 1* or 2* player you wouldn't skip him, because you wouldn't even be able to see him.  Even if you were in the same scl and same bracket as him, his roster would be invisible to the 1* and 2* rosters and they would not show up for him.  He would be getting matched against all the 5 star players playing in scl 10 because scl does nothing to determine your opponents, your roster strength does.

This.

Rhipf

BriMan2222 said:

Rhipf said:...

No, scl level effects nothing except the reward bracket you are in.  You will be matched against the same teams your mmr decides you should see no matter what scl you play.  The only difference is the people you are competing for placement rewards against and the value of rewards in progression and placement.

So everyone in PvP is in one pool (divided by time section obviously) and your opponent is selected from every team that is playing the event in that time section (and based on MMR)?

I thought that the choice of opponents were only those in the same SCL (and same time section) and possibly even just in the same slice. If we are supposed to be matched with everyone in all SCL why do the opponent I see seem to be fewer when I begin an event near the ending time of a section and get into a slice with only a few players?

I would agree that the actual opponents I see are based on my MMR and ranking in the event (after the above considerations are taken into account).

Note: Hopefully this makes sense. 8^)

KGB

Rhipf said:

So everyone in PvP is in one pool (divided by time section obviously) and your opponent is selected from every team that is playing the event in that time section (and based on MMR)?

AFAIK, everyone is in one huge PvP pool. Your opponent is selected from that pool based on MMR. It doesn't matter if they are in the same CL as you *or* the same time section. If this weren't true then very often players might find themselves without any valid opponents to queue up.

Rhipf said:

I thought that the choice of opponents were only those in the same SCL (and same time section) and possibly even just in the same slice. If we are supposed to be matched with everyone in all SCL why do the opponent I see seem to be fewer when I begin an event near the ending time of a section and get into a slice with only a few players?

There are many reasons for what you seem to see.

1) Confirmation bias

2) What slice you are joining. For example if you join slice 5 (last one) near the end of the event when slices 1-4 have finished then the pool of opponents is obviously going to be smaller since you no longer can attack players who are finished with the event.

3) What your MMR is (are you a 3*, 4* or 5* player and what is your average level of your top 5 characters). There will obviously be more MMR opponents for some types of teams (I suspect 4* MMR around L270-300ish is way more diverse than 5 or 3 because there are way more players at that stage of the game).

4) Near the end of events many players will be shielded and thus no longer able to be queued. Often I see the top 20 players shielded in my bracket and then lots of players near where ever I happen to be point wise once I hit around 575 points. So joining late means you may miss out on lots of potential targets. Timing is key (for example roughly 3 1/2 hrs before a given slice ends you can expect a flurry of activity as players do their final climb before throwing up a 3 hr shield) when you are skipping teams.

KGB

shardwick

I would say that the game used to be pretty difficult to get into but with the introduction of saved covers and shards it made things a lot easier for newer players, though gathering resources as a newer player is still a royal pain in the Talos. So it really just depends on what your goals are as a player right now. If you want to collect them all immediately then it's going to take a while with dilution unless you're willing to spend some cash. But if you want a handful of solid characters that you want to be able to be competitive with then that's totally doable in a fairly short time frame even if you're pretty new and don't have a lot of characters rostered. If I was new or starting over then I would focus on 4* Rocket and Groot, Juggs, Polaris, 3* Gamora/Star Lord and Strange. That's it. You get those champed and then you can slowly start adding more people.

I will agree that Class of 2020 pvp was absolute hot garbage.

Dogface

BRB, Polaris and Karnak was a great team. So I kinda enjoyed Class of 2020

BriMan2222

Rhipf said:

BriMan2222 said:

Rhipf said:...

No, scl level effects nothing except the reward bracket you are in.  You will be matched against the same teams your mmr decides you should see no matter what scl you play.  The only difference is the people you are competing for placement rewards against and the value of rewards in progression and placement.

So everyone in PvP is in one pool (divided by time section obviously) and your opponent is selected from every team that is playing the event in that time section (and based on MMR)?

I thought that the choice of opponents were only those in the same SCL (and same time section) and possibly even just in the same slice. If we are supposed to be matched with everyone in all SCL why do the opponent I see seem to be fewer when I begin an event near the ending time of a section and get into a slice with only a few players?

Yes,  I know for a fact that you can see players across SCL's if they are in your MMR because I have 2 allliance mates that play the same time slice as me but I play slc 10 while they are in scl 8 and scl 9.  I know that both of them pop up in my que at least a few times every pvp event.

The reason you're seeing so few people at the end of an event is that most people are shielded towards the end of an event.  You can't hit shielded players unless you had them qued up before they shielded and then your hit won't take points away from them even though you will gain the points.  Try to join towards the beginning of an event for more players to attack when no one is shielded yet, otherwise you're just fighting against all of the other late joiners that haven't' shielded yet or players that don't care about shielding and probably aren't worth much points.