Mpq 2020

Speed283

For newer players we are REALLY screwed this time! Class of 2018 and 2019 were bad enough, but I found a way to get some attacks in, but this pvp is absolutely ridiculous for us. There is NO WAY I can attack ANYONE in this pvp!! No Killmonger...Onslaught is only one power etc etc on the rest of available characters!
No wonder new people bail on this game when they have to put up with this kind of treatment from the designers!
I get the argument...old players should be catered to, but how about not all at once! I haven’t been able to play much with the first two...now this?? Hope people don’t bail as a result because I (generally) like this game!

DyingLegend

Luckily its just a bonus event and not tied to a real seasonal event.

BlackBoltRocks

Newer players will always get the short end of something. It's purely by design. You're new, so by definition you're not supposed to have the resources to compete at every single level (unless you're a super whale), compared to people who have spent 5-7 years on the game. This applies in every area in life, not just one free-to-download mobile game. If you just graduated from university and started a new job, obviously you're going to have to start at the bottom of the ladder. Compared to a CEO who has been working for 20+ years. Are you going to quit your job? Keep grinding away, and slowly more avenues will open up to you.

And lastly, this is just one event that lasts three days. It's not as though you're locked out or shortchanged in all areas of the game.

jredd

Speed283 said:

For newer players we are REALLY screwed this time! Class of 2018 and 2019 were bad enough, but I found a way to get some attacks in, but this pvp is absolutely ridiculous for us. There is NO WAY I can attack ANYONE in this pvp!! No Killmonger...Onslaught is only one power etc etc on the rest of available characters!
No wonder new people bail on this game when they have to put up with this kind of treatment from the designers!
I get the argument...old players should be catered to, but how about not all at once! I haven’t been able to play much with the first two...now this?? Hope people don’t bail as a result because I (generally) like this game!

not sure what you expect. you gotta build your roster up. we all went through it. none of us were given champed 5* for signing up. we all struggled to beat the dpd 3* node with 2* characters for 1 3* cover. or were snookered by not having the 4* character for crash. or were beat down by players with better rosters in pvp, (that never stops btw)...

Rosraf

Was BRB really a 2020 character?  Feels like he's been around a LOT longer than that. 

Speed283

Thanks for your insight BlackBolt and JRedd!

fight4thedream

While I understand both sides of the argument, I think the OP's complaint is valid and something worth considering. From what I understand, PvP is the less popular game mode and events like Class of do nothing to encourage players with less developed rosters to participate. 

One possible solution would be to make better use of the S.H.I.E.L.D. Rank feature. For players under a certain S.H.I.E.L.D. Rank events like Class of would be invisible or locked. Perhaps in their stead, they could run PvP events that are more new player friendly like Combined Arms, Balance of Power and Bag-man which in turn would be locked to players at a higher S.H.I.E.L.D. Rank. I suppose rewards should also be different, something that would be more immediately useful for younger rosters.

Another possible solution is to just provide all players access to character sets for that event.

Heroics were discontinued because they were restrictive for newer players and I believe Class Of events suffer from the same issue. Yes, there is a good argument to be had that such events reward dedication and building up one's roster but I don't think it should come at the expense of a significant portion of players feeling left out. Either hide such events from them using S.H.I.E.L.D. Rank so they are not aware they are missing out or provide an alternative.

But it seems I am repeating myself now so I will leave it that.

Mr_F

The problem lie whithin WHAT is released. What was in 2020? 4* and 5*. What was back 3 years ago when I started the game? 3*, 4* and 5*. IF we weould get ONE 2* per year and let say up to four 3* per year then players of most tiers could be able to participate. No to mention that It would solve or slow down some other problems. Like dilution*.

*Strangly, dilution is not THAT BIG problem as many thinks it is. The problem lays in that you have to play high enough to start getting right rewards.

For example: One max champion 3* is three 4* covers and 5 LT (possible 5 more random one or even 5*). Not to mention the CP. You just have to reach that moment to strat grabbing them more often. IF my roster was strong enough I would jump into SCL 8 from 7 in PVE which just DOUBLES 3* income.

Let's keep going. SCL 7 is guarantee two 4* covers per event. If remember correctly, its one in shards for playing SCL 6. You just have to reach that moment when you can play it.

Same is with 5*. They start easier float to your the deeper into 4* land you are as every max 4* champion gives ya 6 covers or bunch of LT. And with enough strong roster you can play SCL 10 for progression rewards and get even more covers (half cover in shard per event).

YES, the dilution is a problem as currently you need 38 967 063 ISO to champion all 4*. 3 years ago it was 12M less. Some tweaks are needed BUT some of them we arleady have. You just have to discover where are those breakpoints to chase. If someone is interested, I can describe it more in another disscussion.

BlackBoltRocks

Mr_F said:

The problem lie whithin WHAT is released. What was in 2020? 4* and 5*. What was back 3 years ago when I started the game? 3*, 4* and 5*. IF we weould get ONE 2* per year and let say up to four 3* per year then players of most tiers could be able to participate. 

I agree with this.

Earlier this year, we moved to a 4/5/4/5 release pattern. We even had two 5* in a row with Yelena and Apocalypse, although some might say it was "made up for" by having two 4* in a row, Antivenom and whoever was immediately before him.

Allow me to backtrack on what I said about new players always getting the short end of something. Apologies to @Speed283; my perspective when I wrote my post above was my own start in the game. I failed to take into account the experience of someone starting today, or perhaps a year ago. My circumstances were that the only 4* were Wolverine and Invisible Woman; Nick Fury was released sometime later, before the 4* train really started to pick up. The experience of a new MPQ player in 2020 is definitely vastly different than a new MPQ player in 2013. Looking at the current release rate, a new player today is definitely missing out on much, much more than a new player say 4 or 5 years ago. A 5* being released every 4 weeks, and the only way to get them is via a 15% chance when spending 20 or 25CP or a Latest LT. How do you expect new players to match this rate? Compared to starting out in 2014 or 2015, when new players only really had to worry about the 1*, 2* and 3* tiers, which were more than realistic with consistent gameplay. As f4td mentioned, perhaps providing newer players with 1/1/1 loaners would go a long way towards helping them in their progress.

pheregas

fight4thedream said:

While I understand both sides of the argument, I think the OP's complaint is valid and something worth considering. From what I understand, PvP is the less popular game mode and events like Class of do nothing to encourage players with less developed rosters to participate. 

One possible solution would be to make better use of the S.H.I.E.L.D. Rank feature. For players under a certain S.H.I.E.L.D. Rank events like Class of would be invisible or locked. Perhaps in their stead, they could run PvP events that are more new player friendly like Combined Arms, Balance of Power and Bag-man which in turn would be locked to players at a higher S.H.I.E.L.D. Rank. I suppose rewards should also be different, something that would be more immediately useful for younger rosters.

Another possible solution is to just provide all players access to character sets for that event.

Heroics were discontinued because they were restrictive for newer players and I believe Class Of events suffer from the same issue. Yes, there is a good argument to be had that such events reward dedication and building up one's roster but I don't think it should come at the expense of a significant portion of players feeling left out. Either hide such events from them using S.H.I.E.L.D. Rank so they are not aware they are missing out or provide an alternative.

But it seems I am repeating myself now so I will leave it that.

I have a fully developed roster with just about every character in the 2020 tier champed.  And I still stay away from this event.

Roster diversity has always been the most interesting part of PVP since you are forced to use an essential character.  This can lead to some non-meta uses of characters, which is fine and gives it a little spice.  But this particular event, since there is such a relatively small amount of characters to be used, is almost designed to be dominated by whales.  Especially so since recent game changes have made many of us pick and choose who to hoard for.  If you are a player like me, who's collector mentality wants all characters champed independent of how high they end up, it means that all my available characters 5* characters will be lower level than those that chose to hoard.

This disparity is only becoming more evident in the current 2020 PVP and it's simply not fun.  But that's just my opinion.  This rant was not meant to throw whales under the bus.  I firmly believe that whales should have a competitive edge due to their financial investment, but that does not mean that I believe that whales should have the exclusive opportunity to even try to compete in an event either.

ThaRoadWarrior

I'm seeing a lot of Carbage/BRB/Polaris, so I've been having fun exploiting the Opposing CArbage Turn 0 bug using BRB/Onslaught/Apocalypse. When CArbage got that minor rebalance to do his passive at start of battle, for whatever reason the auto-turn behaves as if the attacking player took it, so if there's a match-N on the board, enemy team will be kind enough to let Onslaught slam them pretty hard before you even have to make a move. 

HoundofShadow

That bug was fixed previously, but somehow it's back to the "norm".

As for newer players getting the short end of the stick, it's bound to happen to any segment of players.

I looked at the loaners given and they gel well with each other. Here they are:

1) Samurai Daken, Wolfsbane and Polaris
2) Heimdall, Misty Knight, Legion
3) Killmonger, Karnak, Super-Skrull

At least they didn't throw together loaners randomly. If I were a new player, I would simply use the last set of loaners: quick victory and zero healthpack usage. 

As a deep 4* player, Polaris teams have been feasting on my healthpacks. 

PiMacleod

I like the suggestion to have 5/5/3 loaners at 360.  But I'd like to add to that.

Maybe make the loaner's level and cover amount dependent on the SCL you choose to enter...  So, at SCL 10, you get what was mentioned... but at 9, you get a 4/3/4 at 315.

Point is, maybe this can become a thing where each SCL has its own type of loaners added.  This way, you can TRY to compete, but you're not entering SCL 7 with a fully-covered person, and at SCL 10, you're missing out on the strength of a champed character.

Just spitballin' here. 

ThaRoadWarrior

HoundofShadow said:

That bug was fixed previously, but somehow it's back to the "norm".

Really? Carbage fell out of fashion in my MMR I guess, so I never noticed it being fixed. I figured it had been this way since the rebalance. I guess there was a bad merge on somebody's check in in the last few updates.

HoundofShadow

I remember commenting about this change in one of the release notes or threads about trap tiles/match-4 bugs, but I can't find my own comment. But here's other's confirming the change:

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/comment/919390/#Comment_919390

I fully support new characters getting 13 covers instead of 3 covers, but not sure about this for older characters.

KGB

PiMacleod said:

I like the suggestion to have 5/5/3 loaners at 360.  But I'd like to add to that.

Maybe make the loaner's level and cover amount dependent on the SCL you choose to enter...  So, at SCL 10, you get what was mentioned... but at 9, you get a 4/3/4 at 315.

Point is, maybe this can become a thing where each SCL has its own type of loaners added.  This way, you can TRY to compete, but you're not entering SCL 7 with a fully-covered person, and at SCL 10, you're missing out on the strength of a champed character.

Just spitballin' here. 

I play CL10 and no one on my roster is over L310 (I have every 4 champed and several 5's fully covered but underleveled). If I was getting fully covered 360 loaners I'd just use those exclusively and never use my roster/health packs to hit 900 or 1000 points or even 75 wins. I suspect many others would too.

KGB

PiMacleod

KGB said:

PiMacleod said:

I like the suggestion to have 5/5/3 loaners at 360.  But I'd like to add to that.

Maybe make the loaner's level and cover amount dependent on the SCL you choose to enter...  So, at SCL 10, you get what was mentioned... but at 9, you get a 4/3/4 at 315.

Point is, maybe this can become a thing where each SCL has its own type of loaners added.  This way, you can TRY to compete, but you're not entering SCL 7 with a fully-covered person, and at SCL 10, you're missing out on the strength of a champed character.

Just spitballin' here. 

I play CL10 and no one on my roster is over L310 (I have every 4 champed and several 5's fully covered but underleveled). If I was getting fully covered 360 loaners I'd just use those exclusively and never use my roster/health packs to hit 900 or 1000 points or even 75 wins. I suspect many others would too.

KGB

Well.. no one ever said we had to use those numbers specifically.  The idea is there.  You could make it fully covered at level 300, or whatever.

I think the original person who suggested this was as an idea to combat the whales who dominate the Best of (This Year) versus event.  I can't disagree with that sentiment either.  

And besides... if you were to use your method to hit 1000 points or 75 wins, what's the harm?  I guess HP sales would be affected.  In such a case, sure, tweak the numbers, but I think the original thought was to make a viable bridge for this event only, between the whales and the rest of us.

I dunno -- I was just throwing ideas out there.  The "scaling loaners" for PvP was my main point.  

KGB

PiMacleod said:

KGB said:

I play CL10 and no one on my roster is over L310 (I have every 4 champed and several 5's fully covered but underleveled). If I was getting fully covered 360 loaners I'd just use those exclusively and never use my roster/health packs to hit 900 or 1000 points or even 75 wins. I suspect many others would too.

KGB

I think the original person who suggested this was as an idea to combat the whales who dominate the Best of (This Year) versus event.  I can't disagree with that sentiment either.  

And besides... if you were to use your method to hit 1000 points or 75 wins, what's the harm?  I guess HP sales would be affected.  In such a case, sure, tweak the numbers, but I think the original thought was to make a viable bridge for this event only, between the whales and the rest of us.

  

Is that what we are trying to fix in this thread? Whales dominating PvP? I read that the OP just didn't have any of the 4/5* characters released in 2020 champed (in other words they were a 2/3* player or maybe just entering 4* land) and/or had very few covers for the 2020 characters.

If we are just fixing the latter (2/3/baby 4* players) then 1/1/1 loaners for all 4/5* released in 2020 at L255 should suffice since Whales won't see those teams in PvP until they break MMR and there should be plenty of other similar loaner rosters to queue up.

If we are fixing the former (whales beating deep 4* / baby 5* champ rosters but who don't have all the 2020 5* champed) then I am not sure what's fair. If you hand out L360 fully covered characters then you give players like myself great characters without ever having to earn them so how does that make someone who has say L330 fully covers characters feel since they should be beating me regularly but instead aren't because I get free loaners better than their covered characters.

Maybe the OP can chime in again on what their roster looks like so we know what issues they are having.

KGB

PiMacleod

OJSP said:

Actually, we’ve been getting 3 1/1/1 loaners for the “Class of..” events. I’d argue we should’ve been given fully covered loaners instead at lvl 360 for the 5* and 200 for the 4*s. That way, newer players could experience playing with the characters they should or shouldn’t be aiming for. Having 9 different characters to play around with is quite good already if we don’t need to use any health packs.

I think part of the problem is MMR. If all newer players join too early without getting any seed teams, they would be surprised by the teams in their queues. However, having started the events using the loaners against the seed teams myself, I can assure people that there are newer players playing these events. Ignoring the first 12-24 hours while skipping for new opponents occasionally might offer us different ones within our MMR.

@KGB

It was from OJSP, but I thought there was some merit behind it, and decided to add a layer with the "scaling loaners".  This wasn't originally posted by the OP.

That said, sorry to derail things.  Just commenting and jumping on a side note that was mentioned before, thats all.

Dormammu

I was largely inactive (taking a break from the game) for a big segment of the past year. As a result, the only two 4-stars I have champed in this event are Polaris and that creepy healing Venom. Forget about the 5-stars.

I don't really give a rats tinykitty. No big deal. There will be another PvP soon enough. But that's just my opinion.

fight4thedream said:

While I understand both sides of the argument, I think the OP's complaint is valid and something worth considering. From what I understand, PvP is the less popular game mode and events like Class of do nothing to encourage players with less developed rosters to participate.

Normally I wouldn't worry about it, but I think having so many of them (three?) in a short period of time was probably absolutely aggravating to players who are still developing their rosters and don't have champed 4-stars yet.

fight4thedream said: 

Heroics were discontinued because they were restrictive for newer players

Is this accurate? I always thought Heroics were discontinued because they were no longer needed. They came into being when there were only two or three PvE events and they were an easy way (basically copy & paste Prologue) to give players PvE content without the events getting overly repetitious until more events could be designed and implemented.

Mr_F said:

YES, the dilution is a problem as currently you need 38 967 063 ISO to champion all 4*. 3 years ago it was 12M less. Some tweaks are needed BUT some of them we arleady have. You just have to discover where are those breakpoints to chase. If someone is interested, I can describe it more in another disscussion.

You make some interesting points @Mr._F I think it would be a thread worth having.

Speed283

I’m really new (started the end of May) so many abbreviations I’m not familiar with. If OP is original person then that’s me. Someone asked for my roster - I pointed out my roster being lacking in all aspects i.e. no killmonger and others with only one power (Onslaught being one) also no Polaris...can keep going. 

I’m glad my point was taken!
 Thanks to all who responded on this thread!