**** Negasonic Teenage Warhead (Modern) ****

Polares

Vhailorx said:

And, of course, 4* tier is dead and additional player/dev time spent there is wasted.

You should put this in your signature lol (I completely agree).

She seems ok I guess, nothing special other than the true heal. I kinda think this char as a 5 could have made Bolt and Gambit matter again... (changing his red to black of course). 

PS: And yeah they should stop releasing 4s all together. Rework old 5 (with a store, etc), new 5. This is what they should do now.

PiMacleod

GrimSkald said:

Vhailorx said:

MrEd95 said:

Vhailorx said:

And, of course, 4* tier is dead and additional player/dev time spent there is wasted.

I think Polaris would like a word, and until a week ago, so would Bishop.

it really just depends on the kit of a 4*, as some of them can really compete at the 5* level

This is an old argument.  I am not saying that all 4*s are bad.  Just that additional time/money spent on making (for devs) or collecting (for players) new 4*s offers a vanishingly small return.  New 4*s are either useless because theybare redundant in a tier of 100+ (like this character, or misty, or anti-venom) or sufficiently powerful as to render all other 4*s useless.  That's a bad deal for players either way. 

The problem is  at this time the 4* is the "normal" tier for releases, 5* is the "high" tier for releases.  The rate at which you can cover the character supports this - speaking for myself (a 5* player who gets all the progression and some of the placement,) I generally finish a 4* character quickly after it's featured, and a 5* character we before it's out of LL.  If they released exclusively 5*s, I'm pretty sure I couldn't keep up.  Honestly, no one but serious spenders probably could, and that's undesirable.

In order to make the 5* tier the "normal" tier (and then presumably introduce a 6* tier, which is something I would not look forward to,) they need to drastically increase how many 5* covers drop.  Alternatively, they can just stop launching characters on the 4* weeks and simply launch 5* characters every month.  They seem extremely reluctant to do either.

Ugh.  no please.  don't do that.

The 4 star tier, as "diluted" or bloated as it is, is still unfortunately required.  Can you imagine if they NEVER released another 4*?!  So... what... more 3*s?  Make that transition of getting to the 4* tier even longer....?  Probably not good for new players, since we all know the 4* game is where it all comes to life.

Introduce ONLY 5*s?  Yikes.  So... EVERY SINGLE new person they release would be 5*???  Well, I guess if they spread them out more... right?  ...no, that wouldn't work.  We'd get bored.  Lets think about it for a moment, and really put yourself in the moment -- no new characters for weeks and weeks.  Lets say at the smallest, 1 5* every 4 weeks... that might be pretty rapid.  But, the more you spread it out, the more 'bored' we'd get in-between releases.. they'd have to release something else new in-between characters, to keep us involved.  And to be honest, that's kinda been needed for a while.

I think that's the big problem, really.  The lack of OTHER new stuff.  It's probably a lot easier to make a new character, than it is a whole new PvE event.  They probably have a template they follow, and just import the graphics here, text here, numbers here, etc.  I mean, when you release characters so often, they probably have it streamlined.  

Really, what the 4* tier is to me now, is filler.  Sure, we don't NEED it, and yes, it's bloated/diluted/whatever...  but if we don't have it, there's a void to fill between 5* releases.  So, what are you going to do?  Increase the rate at which 5*s come out and never release another 4* again?!  Yikes.  Imagine the backlash on these forums alone from an increased release rate of only 5*s.  They'd need a different sort of filler, and so far, we don't have anything like that.  What are they gonna do -- bring back SUPPORTS?!?!  ...or maybe introduce something else ENTIRELY NEW?!  

I'm sure you get it my point by now, and some of you are probably already on board.  But I think another point that I'd like to make, is that for the purpose of true 5* feeling, I don't want them to dilute it with EVERY new character they think of.  To me, it's silly that they started with Silver Surfer, Phoenix, Old Man Logan (sure, I'll accept it, especially at his original healing rate), and then decided to sell us that Okoye was deserving of such a mantle.  Look -- I know Norrin Radd would wipe the floor with most people.  I get it.  But I also understand the "legendary status" of some like Green Goblin and original Doc Ock.  Putting people in that tier that don't belong, like Okoye, is really artificial padding to the tier, if you ask me.  I'll bite my tongue, and accept Black Widow and Hawkeye, just purely on the original 'Avenger' stuff alone.  But Yelena Belova?  Sigh... sure, she'll be in the upcoming movie, but that deserves maybe a 4* tier.  Same with Killmonger.  Kingpin is 5*...?  Huh.  Beta Ray Bill?  Havok?  Mister Sinister?

So... if THOSE characters are 5*... and if they stopped making 4's... lets just assume that this would've/could've happened a while back...  Does that mean they would've released Legion as a 5*?  Hellcat?  Anti-Venom?  Misty?  Maria Hill?  I mean... do you really think that THEY belong in that tier too?  I don't.  Some of them should be 3*!!

In the end, I think the 4* tier is there to just space out the releases of 5*s, in lieu of OTHER new content.  Call it laziness, lack of inspiration, lack of employees, ...or maybe it just really IS that hard to make new PvEs or other different content.  They gotta make SOMETHING in between the new 5*s -- because otherwise, I think people would get bored and leave.  After all ... new characters are the only thing we get as 'new' on a regular basis.

EDIT:  And I agree -- repurposing old 5*s as the in-between could work... but someone once said that they'd not make nearly as much cash that way, because old vets like us already have them covered.  Less purchases, and thus, less income, and well, where's their drive to do that?  HOWEVER - I do support the idea, just for the idea of having a more balanced and varied game.  A person can dream.

Captain_Carlman

HoundofShadow said:

Talking about Charged Tiles, I think it will be interesting if some future character can capitalise on a charged board meta. For example, opponents don't gain any ap if that match contains a charged tile.

Oh, I think this might be an interesting gimmick for somebody like a 5* Electro.  Maybe floods the board with charged tiles, either passively or actively, but the enemy team wouldn't get AP for them and maybe even he gains AP for enemy matches of charged tiles.  Could be pretty interesting.

Mr_F

DAZ0273 said:

The same argument holds for Rocket Raccoon - for the first 30 years of his existence he appeared in 10 comic books in total! So pretty much inconsequential to MU history. Groot? Created in 1960 then appeared twice and didn't appear again until 2006!

But yeah, we can agree to disagree.

Not really. Negasonic apperead in comics once in 2001. Then she apperead during Necrosha in 2009-2010. Then in 2016 in Merc for Money. According to wiki: total of appereanced 24.

Rocket has over 350 appereances. His 1st was in 1982. In Groot cases there are some problems how to count him. If we go for worst scenario for him and treat him as two characters - original Groot and "Guardian Groot", then Guardian Groot has almost 300 appereances.

In latter cases, in ~10years. Negasonic in 20 years

So Negasonic is a minor character. Rocket & Groot are not a minor. Whether they are major or not, we can debate. I think rather not.

Basically: we are talking about adding to MPQ character who's number of appereances I can count on 1 A5 paper sheet.

Before Red Skull. And Hank Pym. And list go on. So I have full right to not liking it very much in every bit of myself.

DAZ0273

Mr_F said:

DAZ0273 said:

The same argument holds for Rocket Raccoon - for the first 30 years of his existence he appeared in 10 comic books in total! So pretty much inconsequential to MU history. Groot? Created in 1960 then appeared twice and didn't appear again until 2006!

But yeah, we can agree to disagree.

Not really. Negasonic apperead in comics once in 2001. Then she apperead during Necrosha in 2009-2010. Then in 2016 in Merc for Money. According to wiki: total of appereanced 24.

Rocket has over 350 appereances. His 1st was in 1982. In Groot cases there are some problems how to count him. If we go for worst scenario for him and treat him as two characters - original Groot and "Guardian Groot", then Guardian Groot has almost 300 appereances.

In latter cases, in ~10years. Negasonic in 20 years

So Negasonic is a minor character. Rocket & Groot are not a minor. Whether they are major or not, we can debate. I think rather not.

Basically: we are talking about adding to MPQ character who's number of appereances I can count on 1 A5 paper sheet.

Before Red Skull. And Hank Pym. And list go on. So I have full right to not liking it very much in every bit of myself.

For 30 years - nobody really cared about Rocket. I read his mini series in the 80's - I liked it coz he killed evil clowns and well, clowns ARE evil! But the point is - he was pretty much put on the shelf until somebody decided to dust him off for the Guardians of the Galaxy. He got lucky.

But here is the thing - it only takes ONE breakout story/Writer who loves the character and Negasonic Teenage Warhead might rack up hundreds of comic book appearances too. What is the old saying - "There are no bad characters only bad writers". Something along those lines. Literally EVERY character is on the verge of being "major" or important if somebody wants them to be.

For years and years and years Bucky was the punchline to a joke about superhero deaths. Not any longer. He will be co-starring in his own TV show.

I look at M.O.D.O.K - when I was growing up reading comic books he was a total joke and now he is the major villain in The Avengers Video game.

You mentioned the Wrecking Crew earlier as being important relevant characters - to me they are nobodies, canon fodder. YMMV which is why quantifying what makes one character major and another minor is not so easy. Geez - I mean X-Force even made Boom Boom relevant *shudders*

BriMan2222

Mr_F said:

So when I see Negasonic coming to MPQ before Red Skull or Wrecking Crew or Hank Pym

This is where personal experience also comes into play.  I have been a marvel fan reading comics here and there since I was a child, watching every movie, watching all the cartoon shows, playing video games.  I would say that I have a much larger knowledge of the marvel universe than the casual fan.

Nega sonic I was aware of before the deadpool movie and the movies I think made her somewhat well known to general audiences.  The  wrecking crew on the other hand I have only seen used as henchman in a marvel facebook came.  They game across as generic goons but with a construction worker theme.

I'm not sure where you've seen them to consider them bigger than Nega sonic, but in my experience she is a more well known character.

Mr_F

And that is a problem: judging releveance/importance of a character by its games/movies/whatever appereances but forgetting the original source material: comic books. Wrecking Crew may be a cannon fodder for heroes but are more established (as of today) than Negasonic. Once again: AS OF TODAY'S state of the matter.

It is not important what status will have Negasonic in 10 years. Today, she is nobody in Marvel Universe. Less appereance than Marvel movies in total.

Even if we skip Wrecking Crew. What about about Red Skull. Baron Zemo. Henry Pym. Kang. Absorbing Man. Black Knight. Crystal. Enchantress. Annihilus. Grim Reaper. Hercules. Jocasta. Klaw. Leader. Mantis. Tigra. And list go on. I skipped few dozen of less know but still established characters.

What we've got? Negasonic. I have full right to be even a bit upset.

If you preffer me to say it in better example: Adding Negasonic to game is like adding my brother's father in law into a soccer encyclopedia before adding... lets say Zidane or Iniesta. All because he played few official matches which compared to history of all soccer means nothing or very little at best

BriMan2222

Mr_F said:

And that is a problem: judging releveance/importance of a character by its games/movies/whatever appereances but forgetting the original source material: comic books. Wrecking Crew may be a cannon fodder for heroes but are more established (as of today) than Negasonic. Once again: AS OF TODAY'S state of the matter.

It is not important what status will have Negasonic in 10 years. Today, she is nobody in Marvel Universe. Less appereance than Marvel movies in total.

Even if we skip Wrecking Crew. What about about Red Skull. Baron Zemo. Henry Pym. Kang. Absorbing Man. Black Knight. Crystal. Enchantress. Annihilus. Grim Reaper. Hercules. Jocasta. Klaw. Leader. Mantis. Tigra. And list go on. I skipped few dozen of less know but still established characters.

What we've got? Negasonic. I have full right to be even a bit upset.

If you preffer me to say it in better example: Adding Negasonic to game is like adding my brother's father in law into a soccer encyclopedia before adding... lets say Zidane or Iniesta. All because he played few official matches which compared to history of all soccer means nothing or very little at best

I never said that you don't have the right to be upset.  My point is that from the perspective of casual fans, which I beleive most people are, negasonic is more well known.  Most people are not hardcore comic readers, or even comic readers at all. Most people know these characters based on movies.  Remember when most people thought that spider-man's webs were part of his powers because tobey macquire's spider man had organic webs?

From the point of view of a casual movie watching fan.  Red skull: that bland bad guy from captain america who came back as a ghost for 5 minutes.  Zemo: That guy from civil war who was mad at the avengers. Henry Pym: That old guy from ant-man.  Mantis: That weird chick from guardians.  Everyone else you mentioned: WHO? Negasonic: That funny, sassy teenage girl from 2 deadpool movies.

Like it or not, to make money on these characters (which is their goal) they need to appeal to the broadest audience, which is the casual fan.  You are entitled to be upset, but I can totally understand why they would pick negasonic over all those others is all I was trying to say.

Mr_F

BriMan2222 said:

Like it or not, to make money on these characters (which is their goal) they need to appeal to the broadest audience, which is the casual fan.  You are entitled to be upset, but I can totally understand why they would pick negasonic over all those others.

True as hell. Saddest part of it.

Vhailorx

GrimSkald said:

Vhailorx said:

MrEd95 said:

Vhailorx said:

And, of course, 4* tier is dead and additional player/dev time spent there is wasted.

I think Polaris would like a word, and until a week ago, so would Bishop.

it really just depends on the kit of a 4*, as some of them can really compete at the 5* level

This is an old argument.  I am not saying that all 4*s are bad.  Just that additional time/money spent on making (for devs) or collecting (for players) new 4*s offers a vanishingly small return.  New 4*s are either useless because theybare redundant in a tier of 100+ (like this character, or misty, or anti-venom) or sufficiently powerful as to render all other 4*s useless.  That's a bad deal for players either way. 

The problem is  at this time the 4* is the "normal" tier for releases, 5* is the "high" tier for releases.  The rate at which you can cover the character supports this - speaking for myself (a 5* player who gets all the progression and some of the placement,) I generally finish a 4* character quickly after it's featured, and a 5* character we before it's out of LL.  If they released exclusively 5*s, I'm pretty sure I couldn't keep up.  Honestly, no one but serious spenders probably could, and that's undesirable.

In order to make the 5* tier the "normal" tier (and then presumably introduce a 6* tier, which is something I would not look forward to,) they need to drastically increase how many 5* covers drop.  Alternatively, they can just stop launching characters on the 4* weeks and simply launch 5* characters every month.  They seem extremely reluctant to do either.

I don't particularly disagree with your statement (in fact I would go even further and say that MPQ's financial health is absolutely dependent upon having multiple rewards tiers for the multiple types of players in the game.  nothing that will satisfy new/casual players would be sufficient for the hardcore/vet grinders, and vice versa).  But it's not my job to fix that problem; as a player, I only need to call out an issue and trust the devs/pubs to fix it or stop playing.  and the fact that the game 'needs' a bifurcated, normal- and high- reward tier structure does not change another fact: the 4* tier is hopelessly bloated, rendering each new character either a waste of time or a massive power-creep trap. 

Vhailorx

Mr_F said:

BriMan2222 said:

Like it or not, to make money on these characters (which is their goal) they need to appeal to the broadest audience, which is the casual fan.  You are entitled to be upset, but I can totally understand why they would pick negasonic over all those others.

True as hell. Saddest part of it.

I get that lowest-common-denominator product can be frustrating for invested fans.  But at the same time, Marvel as a whole benefits massively from the broad appeal that it now has thanks to the MCU (and the Fox/Sony movies too).  We should probably keep that fact in mind too. . .

Mr_F

Vhailorx said:

Mr_F said:

BriMan2222 said:

Like it or not, to make money on these characters (which is their goal) they need to appeal to the broadest audience, which is the casual fan.  You are entitled to be upset, but I can totally understand why they would pick negasonic over all those others.

True as hell. Saddest part of it.

I get that lowest-common-denominator product can be frustrating for invested fans.  But at the same time, Marvel as a whole benefits massively from the broad appeal that it now has thanks to the MCU (and the Fox/Sony movies too).  We should probably keep that fact in mind too. . .

I AM squeezing my butt about the fact that for me we still are waiting for "true" Fury, Vulture or Mordo - the ones we have for me are "impostors" from MCU. So ya know, I am VERY aware. The fact that it is just alternate dimension Earth helps a bit.

Also despite all the good MCU did to Marvel, it is an example of what it did the other way. I mean, "real" Nick Fury is not black. Vulture has green cotume and is old man, Vision has different image. etc. But "people" will recognise MCU versions as "true"/"correct" ones.

Vhailorx

Mr_F said:

Vhailorx said:

Mr_F said:

BriMan2222 said:

Like it or not, to make money on these characters (which is their goal) they need to appeal to the broadest audience, which is the casual fan.  You are entitled to be upset, but I can totally understand why they would pick negasonic over all those others.

True as hell. Saddest part of it.

I get that lowest-common-denominator product can be frustrating for invested fans.  But at the same time, Marvel as a whole benefits massively from the broad appeal that it now has thanks to the MCU (and the Fox/Sony movies too).  We should probably keep that fact in mind too. . .

I AM squeezing my butt about the fact that for me we still are waiting for "true" Fury, Vulture or Mordo - the ones we have for me are "impostors" from MCU. So ya know, I am VERY aware. The fact that it is just alternate dimension Earth helps a bit.

Also despite all the good MCU did to Marvel, it is an example of what it did the other way. I mean, "real" Nick Fury is not black. Vulture has green cotume and is old man, Vision has different image. etc. But "people" will recognise MCU versions as "true"/"correct" ones.

Yeah, I am probably not the best person to engage in this particular argument as I basically don't care about marvel (or general comics) continuity in general.  I am familiar with Marvel's characters from pop culture (e.g., the 90s x-men series to the aughts spidey movies, and the odd book here and there), and I enjoy both the medium and the multi-media projects.  But I have more or less no interest in arguments about which version of a character/place/event is 'canon' in comics (don't care about the clone saga, or any of wolverine's various deaths, or any of the various crises over in DC).  This probably puts me in the minority in the MPQ forums, but means I am basically agnostic as between MCU/movie versions of characters v. their 'original' counterparts; I just don't care. It's all too subjective and demi can basically never make everyone happy.  so if you want to complain that demi has added a character you dislike, and/or hasn't added on that you do like, then go for it! 

And at the same time, I definitely think that the purists out there should remember that the mainstream success of the MCU is probably the #1 reason that, for example, this game is still live after 6 years. . .

pheregas

I'm sorry, but it looks like they kinda phoned it in on that artwork.

ThaRoadWarrior

pheregas said:

I'm sorry, but it looks like they kinda phoned it in on that artwork.

It definitely doesn't seem as polished as some other releases, nor did Polaris to my eye. 

Bryan Lambert

Mr_F said:

It is not important what status will have Negasonic in 10 years. Today, she is nobody in Marvel Universe. Less appereance than Marvel movies in total.

...

What we've got? Negasonic. I have full right to be even a bit upset.

Fun fact. I have LOTS of Marvel toys. I’ve only ever pre-ordered ONE. That toy? Negasonic Teenage Warhead. So for every bit of upset you are, I’m 10x as many bits happy. Isn’t it funny how individual perceptions of a character’s relative “importance’ are/

Mr_F

Bryan Lambert said:

Mr_F said:

It is not important what status will have Negasonic in 10 years. Today, she is nobody in Marvel Universe. Less appereance than Marvel movies in total.

...

What we've got? Negasonic. I have full right to be even a bit upset.

Fun fact. I have LOTS of Marvel toys. I’ve only ever pre-ordered ONE. That toy? Negasonic Teenage Warhead. So for every bit of upset you are, I’m 10x as many bits happy. Isn’t it funny how individual perceptions of a character’s relative “importance’ are/

Is that toy looks like comic version or movie version? If latter, I am not surprised. If not latter, then O_o.

Basically if any comic characters was in a movie It MAY receive merchindise more likekly than if it was present in movie. I mean, the propability of getting a toy skyrockets when character appears in movie/TV show etc.

Bryan Lambert

Movie, obviously. The point is, some people like the movie versions of characters, and are happy when they appear in toy or game form. Some people aren’t  C’est la vie.

Oh, one other thing. Assuming you’re not, like, super-racist, maybe find a way to express your sentiment besides “The correct Nick Fury is white”, because that sounds, well, super duper racist.

Vhailorx

Bryan Lambert said

Oh, one other thing. Assuming you’re not, like, super-racist, maybe find a way to express your sentiment besides “The correct Nick Fury is white”, because that sounds, well, super duper racist.

Agree completely, but couldn't find a way to say it in my post that was nearly as polite as this.

DAZ0273

Mr_F said:

And that is a problem: judging releveance/importance of a character by its games/movies/whatever appereances but forgetting the original source material: comic books. Wrecking Crew may be a cannon fodder for heroes but are more established (as of today) than Negasonic. Once again: AS OF TODAY'S state of the matter.

It is not important what status will have Negasonic in 10 years. Today, she is nobody in Marvel Universe. Less appereance than Marvel movies in total.

Even if we skip Wrecking Crew. What about about Red Skull. Baron Zemo. Henry Pym. Kang. Absorbing Man. Black Knight. Crystal. Enchantress. Annihilus. Grim Reaper. Hercules. Jocasta. Klaw. Leader. Mantis. Tigra. And list go on. I skipped few dozen of less know but still established characters.

What we've got? Negasonic. I have full right to be even a bit upset.

If you preffer me to say it in better example: Adding Negasonic to game is like adding my brother's father in law into a soccer encyclopedia before adding... lets say Zidane or Iniesta. All because he played few official matches which compared to history of all soccer means nothing or very little at best

I am a Marvel fan of 40 years. My take

Red Skull - Nazi, might not want to do
Wrecking Crew - irrelevant
Baron Zemo - done in Civil War, irrelevant
Henry Pym - done in Antman - relevant but not a priority
Kang - upcoming
Black Knight - upcoming
Crystal - partly in game, otherwise irrelevant
Enchantress -irrelevant
Annihilus -irrelevant but might change
Grim Reaper - irrelevant without Wonder Man
Klaw - irrelevant until developed more
Leader - irrelevant especially with no Hulk movie
Mantis - Gotg3?
Tiger -irrelevant
Jocasta - lol!!!!!!