Alternate Costume Options - What Happened?

maxjaybo

jredd said:

same thing as supports. good idea poorly implemented. hopefully they revisit at some point.

Honestly, supports and skins would have been better off as one idea.

They made all this artwork for something that's quarantined to its own menu, and then separately added cosmetic offerings with zero tactical value...

HoundofShadow

I think they have pricing strategies/market segmentation based on other factors such as rarity, popularity and whether it's tied to any ongoing Marvel events. Some costumes are probably "loss leaders" to generate good feelings among players. R4G and Deadpool are pretty popular characters but we can get their costumes for free. 5* Thor is popular but his costume is priced at $75. Likewise, 3* Spider-man was tied to Spider-Verse movie but we have to pay to get his costume. 

If they sell 5* Thor costume (or other costumes) at $2-$5, they might generate extra incomes. However, how would the whales feel? To some players, $75 for costumes is probably a rip-off and they would rather get themselves a couple AAA games. To the whales, $75 is disposable income and buying these exclusive costumes at this price give them some kind of special feelings. Assuming both groups are spending $75, but the end goals and the factors used to decide where to spend the money is different.

Support was "dead" for two years but it was resurrected someway recently. I think costumes might get resurrected some time in the future.

DeNappa

PiMacleod said:

However, I do wonder if they can't change their business model due to potential backlash... if the 'whales' started to see reduced prices for things that they spent SO much money on in the past, would there be outrage?  I'd think there'd be a bit of sour grapes there.  Example:  $75 costume now sold for $10 (which is still pricey, IMO, but that's just me) -- I think they'd be a bit upset on the 'loss' of $65.  Some could argue that they had much longer to enjoy that costume... I'm not here to advocate either side, but I can see how it'd make people feel one way or another.

But they didn't buy just the costume for $75. Those $75 purchases consisted of a whole pack that also included a load of HP (and possibly other stuff like covers or CP, but I can't remember the details).

DAZ0273

I also don't think you can use any sort of "backlash argument" about making these costumes available again at lesser prices.

I would liken it to getting free games on your PS+/X-Box Gold subscription - possibly millions of players paid full price for those games when they came out and that was their choice and they got the benefits of it then straight away. You can't turn around and complain if a year later Sony or Microsoft give those games away - that is just the way it is. 

PiMacleod

DAZ0273 said:

I also don't think you can use any sort of "backlash argument" about making these costumes available again at lesser prices.

I would liken it to getting free games on your PS+/X-Box Gold subscription - possibly millions of players paid full price for those games when they came out and that was their choice and they got the benefits of it then straight away. You can't turn around and complain if a year later Sony or Microsoft give those games away - that is just the way it is. 

And I totally agree.  But there are those that wouldn't...

And while I understand what @HoundofShadow is saying, despite licenses and other things that they might have to pay for, you can't expect a player to think "Huh, costume costs more than the Marvel Fortnite skins do, but I'm okay with it".  Of course, I'm using the $75 tag as the basis here...  I understand inflation for prices based on the brand (because really, that's what you could boil it down to -- much like buying a Lego set, or buying the Lego Mario set).  After all, we all know certain brands just cost more.  A pair of Nikes compared to New Balance.  A name brand controller compared to Mad Catz.  Throwing logos for popular/pricey characters into the mix will raise the value/price.  The problem (IMO) is that they expect a DIGITAL good for a game that won't be around forever to sell for such a price.  Obviously, I'm off my rocker, because people bought it... still, think how many more people would've bought it if it was just $20.  

@DeNappa  ... they've fluxed and changed that throughout time.  Somebody here probably has the stats on it, but at one point, the $75 costume had only a few extras with it.  Over time, as $75 costumes came out, they added more and more into the bundle.  To me, it never quite equaled $75 -- but I find it hard to spend $75 on costume + resources for a game.  Usually, a $75 gaming purchase for me would be a game + DLC content, or a game + funky/special controller... or even a good Rock Band guitar (man I wish plastic instruments were cheaper).

Throughout typing this, I think I learned something, or maybe just gleaned something from this monologue.  More-than-likely, they have a metric on how many players that are active that are willing to buy whatever is thrown their way that have the words "Limited Time Offer" emblazoned across it.  I know this sounds silly, but after you throw out an offer or two, and see how many people actually buy it, you'd probably track those sales.  See how many of them bought more than just one.  How many bought three different costumes at that price...  etc, etc.  Throw extra resources in with them when the sales start to dip a bit, just to entice them to come back.  And at one point, it probably stopped because there weren't enough impulse buyers for these "luxury" items to justify paying the personnel and fees associated.  Which would make me think, once again, how many more buyers would you have if the price were cheaper, and would that amount of extra buyers off-set the amount you're sacrificing per bundle.

It's a cyclical argument in my head -- always coming back to the same points, but honestly, its only because I don't know those factors.  What a pointless discussion for me to waste my time on, when we'll never really know the answer (without an insider providing it)... don't read too much into that last statement; that's just me chastising myself for silly debates when I should be working. 

HoundofShadow

I agree with that argument and I think this is where market segmentation comes in to play. The dev definitely has data to help them to do projection and what-if analysis on pricing costume bundles.  $75 price tag is obviously targetted at whales, while anything less than $30 is targetted at the mass market. To sell all standalone costumes at $2-$5 is unlikely to happen. For them to sell at this price, we need about 1 million active players in MPQ who spend. 

You can keep on arguing that $75 can net you a lot of good or top games; therefore, costumes should be cheap. However, I think the main point is, you are not their target segment. $75 bundles are targeted at whales. I think this is how the typical market work. You can't expect Apple to sell iPhones for low price just because you can buy a few mobile phones for the price of one iPhone. 

Ptahhotep

There were costumes that came with VIP and changed every month. This could be brought back. If it cycled through all of the existing costumes it would be an additional incentive to purchase VIP access as well as a straightforward way of making the costumes available.

DAZ0273

$75 costumes definitely targeted at Whales - the reason we can say this is that they were tied to 5* Characters and the most likely players to invest cash in order to have and use frequently 5* characters are Whales. You might also get a lucky purchase - a costume that a player with a vested Marvel history absolutely loves and must have but otherwise no, these things are aimed at regular spenders and those at the top end of that spending.

With regard to the $2-$5 price range, this would not work with the aggressive time limit put on purchasing the original costumes but I don't agree that it couldn't work now - presumably the Devs have no further costs associated and so could easily offer the costumes again. The reason they won't do this is because I think they have rigid pricing structures in place that never offer discounted real world prices and they have no interest (or have data otherwise) that stops them doing this. Whenever there is an offer it is always "get extra" rather than "pay less".

KGB

Ptahhotep said:

There were costumes that came with VIP and changed every month. This could be brought back. If it cycled through all of the existing costumes it would be an additional incentive to purchase VIP access as well as a straightforward way of making the costumes available.

Agreed. It's why I first got VIP in the first place when Lady Deadpool costume was added.

Ideally they would have 12 costumes. One for each month of the year (Scarlet Witch's Witch costume in Oct as a Halloween theme, Devil Dino in Sept as Anniversary theme and so on) to entice players to get at least 1 year of VIP to get every costume. After that duplicates would instead net HP as they did before (preferably the same 500).

KGB

ZootSax

PiMacleod said:

@DeNappa  ... they've fluxed and changed that throughout time.  Somebody here probably has the stats on it, but at one point, the $75 costume had only a few extras with it.  Over time, as $75 costumes came out, they added more and more into the bundle.  To me, it never quite equaled $75 -- but I find it hard to spend $75 on costume + resources for a game.  Usually, a $75 gaming purchase for me would be a game + DLC content, or a game + funky/special controller... or even a good Rock Band guitar (man I wish plastic instruments were cheaper).

Just because I was curious, I looked up the $75 offers I could find.  Originally I thought like you did that they varied through time, but actually they were more consistent than I realized (not including costumes offered for CP, HP or event placement/progression, as those are harder to objectively compare to a set cost of $75):
-Costume
-10,000 HP
-5x Legendary tokens for the new-release 5* store
-5 CP for alliance

It looks like this held true for Goblin, Carol, Dr Strange, Jessica Jones & Panther, at least.  I thought Dr Oct was a VIP offer and I know Okoye was through a vault (I got her costume with the free pool, but never got her to use it).  I couldn't recall any other 5* costumes, but I could be forgetting someone (Daredevil and Cable's costumes are cited in the link below to Dr Strange, but neither was a $75 offer).  

5* Panther Costume:
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/79750/costume-offer-black-panther-family-legacy

5* Goblin:
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/76962/red-goblin-bundle-1-21-19

5* Carol:
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/77462/captain-marvel-celebration-updated-3-18-19

Dr Strange:
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/78518/all-new-cos-june-collection-updated-7-2-19

5* Jessica Jones:
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/80150/mpq-halloween-events-2019/p3
(quote from @bluewolf in this thread) 

PiMacleod

HoundofShadow said:

I agree with that argument and I think this is where market segmentation comes in to play. The dev definitely has data to help them to do projection and what-if analysis on pricing costume bundles.  $75 price tag is obviously targetted at whales, while anything less than $30 is targetted at the mass market. To sell all standalone costumes at $2-$5 is unlikely to happen. For them to sell at this price, we need about 1 million active players in MPQ who spend. 

You can keep on arguing that $75 can net you a lot of good or top games; therefore, costumes should be cheap. However, I think the main point is, you are not their target segment. $75 bundles are targeted at whales. I think this is how the typical market work. You can't expect Apple to sell iPhones for low price just because you can buy a few mobile phones for the price of one iPhone. 

well, you're not wrong. 

And maybe my frustration isn't with the company themselves (because honestly, I probably wouldn't buy a costume anyways... I'm too frugal).  However, I AM astonished with the amount of disposable income people have for this hobby.  I have to justify my purchases, with a majority of the decision based on how much use I'll get out of it.  And while I play plenty of MPQ, I've never considered a cosmetic to be something worth buying.  The closest thing I've ever done to that is in Smash Ultimate, buying a couple Mii Fighter skins, because they came with additional stage music.  Even then, for something from a popular franchise such as Undertale, the cost was less than $2.  To me, that's justifiable.

I wish I had such disposable income... or maybe they DON'T have that much income, but instead, live paycheck-to-paycheck and have a spending habit that they can't break.  I do not envy such a position.  Either way, I guess I'm not in the target audience, so I won't be a part of it.  

PiMacleod

ZootSax said:

PiMacleod said:

@DeNappa  ... they've fluxed and changed that throughout time.  Somebody here probably has the stats on it, but at one point, the $75 costume had only a few extras with it.  Over time, as $75 costumes came out, they added more and more into the bundle.  To me, it never quite equaled $75 -- but I find it hard to spend $75 on costume + resources for a game.  Usually, a $75 gaming purchase for me would be a game + DLC content, or a game + funky/special controller... or even a good Rock Band guitar (man I wish plastic instruments were cheaper).

Just because I was curious, I looked up the $75 offers I could find.  Originally I thought like you did that they varied through time, but actually they were more consistent than I realized (not including costumes offered for CP, HP or event placement/progression, as those are harder to objectively compare to a set cost of $75):
-Costume
-10,000 HP
-5x Legendary tokens for the new-release 5* store
-5 CP for alliance

It looks like this held true for Goblin, Carol, Dr Strange, Jessica Jones & Panther, at least.  I thought Dr Oct was a VIP offer and I know Okoye was through a vault (I got her costume with the free pool, but never got her to use it).  I couldn't recall any other 5* costumes, but I could be forgetting someone (Daredevil and Cable's costumes are cited in the link below to Dr Strange, but neither was a $75 offer).  

5* Panther Costume:
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/79750/costume-offer-black-panther-family-legacy

5* Goblin:
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/76962/red-goblin-bundle-1-21-19

5* Carol:
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/77462/captain-marvel-celebration-updated-3-18-19

Dr Strange:
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/78518/all-new-cos-june-collection-updated-7-2-19

5* Jessica Jones:
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/80150/mpq-halloween-events-2019/p3
(quote from @bluewolf in this thread) 

huh!  Good research.  Yeah.. I thought there were more differences...  could've sworn it.  Well... my bad.

HoundofShadow

There are different categories of whales. Those who are truly rich, and those that are simply addicted. We won't be able to tell, unless they reveal it themselves.

In one old F2P game that I played, the dev made different levels of VIP and everyone can see what levels other players are. Also, there is global chat in the game and you can see a lot of showing off by the highest level VIPs and a lot of kissing-up towards the top VIP players. They were dumping more than 5-figures into the game. There are people who spend money without blinking an eye. 

I found the thread by bluewolf about all the costumes available and they sold standalone costume before, but it was for $5.99.

Re-offers:  $5.99 offers for Stealth Spider-Man (3*Spidey costume) and No Normal (for Kamala Khan) - only the costume - were made available in late December 2019.

I think those looking to buy 5* Thor standalone costume for $5 will be disappointed. It will probably be priced at 15.99/19.99. 

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/78956/costumes-that-have-been-available-in-the-game

ZootSax

PiMacleod said:

ZootSax said:

PiMacleod said:

@DeNappa  ... they've fluxed and changed that throughout time.  Somebody here probably has the stats on it, but at one point, the $75 costume had only a few extras with it.  Over time, as $75 costumes came out, they added more and more into the bundle.  To me, it never quite equaled $75 -- but I find it hard to spend $75 on costume + resources for a game.  Usually, a $75 gaming purchase for me would be a game + DLC content, or a game + funky/special controller... or even a good Rock Band guitar (man I wish plastic instruments were cheaper).

Just because I was curious, I looked up the $75 offers I could find.  Originally I thought like you did that they varied through time, but actually they were more consistent than I realized (not including costumes offered for CP, HP or event placement/progression, as those are harder to objectively compare to a set cost of $75):
-Costume
-10,000 HP
-5x Legendary tokens for the new-release 5* store
-5 CP for alliance

It looks like this held true for Goblin, Carol, Dr Strange, Jessica Jones & Panther, at least.  I thought Dr Oct was a VIP offer and I know Okoye was through a vault (I got her costume with the free pool, but never got her to use it).  I couldn't recall any other 5* costumes, but I could be forgetting someone (Daredevil and Cable's costumes are cited in the link below to Dr Strange, but neither was a $75 offer).  

5* Panther Costume:
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/79750/costume-offer-black-panther-family-legacy

5* Goblin:
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/76962/red-goblin-bundle-1-21-19

5* Carol:
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/77462/captain-marvel-celebration-updated-3-18-19

Dr Strange:
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/78518/all-new-cos-june-collection-updated-7-2-19

5* Jessica Jones:
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/80150/mpq-halloween-events-2019/p3
(quote from @bluewolf in this thread) 

huh!  Good research.  Yeah.. I thought there were more differences...  could've sworn it.  Well... my bad.

Before I searched the News & Announcement boards looking for something else, I would have sworn there were more differences, too....