***** Apocalypse (Classic) *****
Comments
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optimus2861 said:Spotted a champ in the wild today, so with the new character boost he clocked in at level 543. A sneak preview:
- 174,000 health (!!)
- Black (3 covers) does 4 hits @ 19,500 each
- Red 4 hits @ 8,400 each
- Yellow boosts damage output by 18,000
Yee. Ikes.Fwiw, level 550 is ~ 100% better than 450 for all characters. The leveling scale is not linear, but it is standardized across all characters. So 5*s more or less double in strength from 255->380, then double again from 380->450, and one more time from 450-> 550.So from 255->450 is just about a 4x increase in health, match damage, and power strength for 5*s. (But from 70->270 is only about a 2x increase for 4*s).1 -
Usually when a char is really good... champed is OP. Im standing at my first words. Absolutely recommended like BRB. But no, he is not broken by himself.
Maybe there will be people waiting for a total broken char for to pull him.
And then complaining about him for 2 years.
Not discarded at all doing both things at the same time.
About him on defense... chars wich require special powers combo are the worst for AI.
His powers instead are really simple.
He has no op passive that is true. But its difficult that AI could mess his powers. So I dont think he will be bad at all on defense.
And be prepared to fight him on future.0 -
Bad said:
About him on defense... chars wich require special powers combo are the worst for AI.
His powers instead are really simple.
He has no op passive that is true. But its difficult that AI could mess his powers. So I dont think he will be bad at all on defense.
And be prepared to fight him on future.Now his high health and cheap powers means that he can luck into some wins or cripple you with a bad cascade. He’s also not as bad as say Grey Suit Widow in the AI’s hands. But the fact that the AI won’t play him optimally is a big drawback versus Hulkoye Worthy/Hawk, BRB/Kitty, or Bishop/Anyone. Those buses pretty much drive themselves.1 -
Daredevil217 said:No they can and will mess him up. The AI won’t fire yellow before black/red which results in leaving a bunch of damage on the table.
Im not going to explain further of course. I will let players find their way with no more cues lol.0 -
Daredevil217 said:No they can and will mess him up. The AI won’t fire yellow before black/red which results in leaving a bunch of damage on the table.
If the enemy Apoc gets a cascade that charges yellow and one (or both) of red/black.. you are potentially in for some hurt, because the AI will always fire yellow first in those cases, since yellow is always the first power fired (same reason Mystique always hits her purple-black combo if she gets all the necessary AP at once). So his red will get boosted in those cases, even if his black usage won't be optimal. Plus, he fires his yellow once, and so long as one repeater hangs around, the red/black will hurt all the more. And he's got a big-**** health pool to all but ensure he'll get that yellow off at least once.
Super optimal? No. So. Yeah. Not a Gambit-1.0. Still gonna be freakin nasty.2 -
@optimus2861
i always thought that the AI will fire the powers in order of their sequence. This means that apocalypse will fire his black power first, then red and then yellow IF they have all the required Ap.
in practice this means that the AI will often waste a black or red, before it is buffed by yellow.0 -
AI will fire inmediatly when it gets. But notice that yellow is not a relevant power and not very popular. If you constantly are denying yellow fearing a good use of AI it could be that you are gaining useless AP in a lot of teams. And yellow is mostly defensive anyway.
So... its not an easy problem there.0 -
atomzed said:@optimus2861
i always thought that the AI will fire the powers in order of their sequence. This means that apocalypse will fire his black power first, then red and then yellow IF they have all the required Ap.
in practice this means that the AI will often waste a black or red, before it is buffed by yellow.
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MoosePrime said:atomzed said:@optimus2861
i always thought that the AI will fire the powers in order of their sequence. This means that apocalypse will fire his black power first, then red and then yellow IF they have all the required Ap.
in practice this means that the AI will often waste a black or red, before it is buffed by yellow.
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MoosePrime said:atomzed said:@optimus2861
i always thought that the AI will fire the powers in order of their sequence. This means that apocalypse will fire his black power first, then red and then yellow IF they have all the required Ap.
in practice this means that the AI will often waste a black or red, before it is buffed by yellow.0 -
Vhailorx said:MoosePrime said:atomzed said:@optimus2861
i always thought that the AI will fire the powers in order of their sequence. This means that apocalypse will fire his black power first, then red and then yellow IF they have all the required Ap.
in practice this means that the AI will often waste a black or red, before it is buffed by yellow.0 -
atomzed said:Vhailorx said:MoosePrime said:atomzed said:@optimus2861
i always thought that the AI will fire the powers in order of their sequence. This means that apocalypse will fire his black power first, then red and then yellow IF they have all the required Ap.
in practice this means that the AI will often waste a black or red, before it is buffed by yellow.0 -
atomzed said:Vhailorx said:MoosePrime said:atomzed said:@optimus2861
i always thought that the AI will fire the powers in order of their sequence. This means that apocalypse will fire his black power first, then red and then yellow IF they have all the required Ap.
in practice this means that the AI will often waste a black or red, before it is buffed by yellow.
0 -
Bad said:AI will fire inmediatly when it gets. But notice that yellow is not a relevant power and not very popular. If you constantly are denying yellow fearing a good use of AI it could be that you are gaining useless AP in a lot of teams. And yellow is mostly defensive anyway.
So... its not an easy problem there.0 -
Vhailorx said:atomzed said:Vhailorx said:MoosePrime said:atomzed said:@optimus2861
i always thought that the AI will fire the powers in order of their sequence. This means that apocalypse will fire his black power first, then red and then yellow IF they have all the required Ap.
in practice this means that the AI will often waste a black or red, before it is buffed by yellow.0 -
Anybody notice in the Onslaught PVP that an enemy apocalypse will target the invisible lowest health opponent and just waste his attack doing 0 damage rather than moving on to the next viable target? I wonder if this is a bug or just how it works?1
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fight4thedream said:@Akroma
In the case of your friend, Apocalypse is a good 5* to start out with. High health, his powers work well together, and he does a lot of damage. For PvP, he will be useful against Beta/Kitty teams. Hopefully the next set of 5* characters have some synergy with him but in the event that they don't, he can always pair him with Bishop.
In your case, if you are looking at Apocalypse as a third wheel for your Okoye/Thor combo for PvE then I think you will be a bit disappointed. Not that he will be bad, it's just Sabertooth does more for the AP your team will be using than Apocalypse. Consider: Apocalypse's black requires protect tiles in order to do damage. Assuming you use yellow to heal Okoye and generate TU tiles, you will have to use his black twice to get damage from that power. Also don't forget his black will burst heal your lowest health teammate if there are no protect tiles on the board, which risks putting Thor over 50% and shutting down his AP generation.
On the other hand, Sabertooth's black does damage on the first go. Additionally Sabertooth's red is one AP less. It might not seem much but it counts if you are going for speed.
Finally, Apocalypse's red, black and yellow match damage are higher than Okoye's so you will need to level her higher otherwise Apocalypse will tank some of those colors and Okoye will burn TU tiles.
Just to be clear, it's not that Apocalypse is bad but simply Thor/Okoye/Sabertooth is a much more efficient and smoother team.
If your concerned about the value of Apocalypse for your roster, it seems he will be more useful for you in PvP. He will go well with Beta, Iceman and Prof X. So if you are looking to increase your team variety for PvP, he will definitely add value there. Just not so much for PvE.
one important thing i forgot to mention is that my okoye cant tank red so when i go thorkoye on scl10 i usually have to get black or purple or blue ap so thor dont tank red or green so even when i use sabretooth, i have to get the red for his skill via thors passive. if i have apoc he will get red.
knowing that, is apoc any good for my roster pve wise? (thor okoye kitty iceman prof x beta carnage strange storm and black bolt, all level 451ish)
thanks
maybe thor apoc beta in pve scl10?0 -
I’m seeing a lot of people running Apoc 5/3/5. Can anyone make a good argument for this build? Or, any build other than 3/5/5? Assuming optimal conditions (fire yellow first, have 4 protects on the board), here are the damage numbers at four different builds.
3/5/5
⚫️ (9522 + 8784) x 4 = 73,224
🔴 (4102 + 8784) x 4 = 51,544
124,768 Total
5/3/5
⚫️ (11572 + 8784) x 4 = 81,424
🔴 (3956 + 8784) x 3 = 38,220
119,644 Total
5/5/3
⚫️ (11572 + 5856) x 4 = 69,712
🔴 (4102 + 5856) x 4 = 39,832
109,544 total
4/4/5
⚫️ (10254 + 8784) x 4 = 76,152
🔴 (4102 + 8784) x 3 = 30,454
106,606 total
It seems yellow at 5 is a no-brainer because he’s also boosting his allies as well as his own abilities. So you get the largest ROI there. Splitting the difference and going 4/4/5 gives the lowest total damage output, so for me that’s out.
That leaves 3 red or 3 black as your optimal builds. And I go 3 black for many reasons.
1) As seen above, you get the largest total damage output.
2) There is no black battery in the 5* tier, but a damn good red one in Thor. So you are likely to fire red more often.
3) In the protect tile meta, all of red’s damage gets through. Can’t say the same for black.
4) Black takes longer to fire for optimal damage as you need to wait for yellow to be fired AND for protects to get on the board. Red just needs the repeater (so it’s more AI dummy proof as well).
5) A fourth tic of damage on red gets additional boosts from Okoye/Strike tiles/etc. that cuts through defenses. You lose that going 5-black.
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Does Apoc's yellow passive boost Immortal Hulk's Green Door ability just like Okoye does ?
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tonypq said:Does Apoc's yellow passive boost Immortal Hulk's Green Door ability just like Okoye does ?
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