***** Apocalypse (Classic) *****

atomzed

when you say both you and your friend have enough CP to champ apocalypse, are you referring to when he hits the LT (probably in 2 weeks time) or when he is about to leave LT? 

Generally, the advice would be to look at the trio in latest legendary. Do you like all 3 of them? How does it complement your roster? 

For example, if you don’t like IHulk, you can always wait for IHulk to leave LT before you pull for apocalypse. Or you can wait for the next 5* to be announced before you decide whether you want to pull. 

For you, I think apocalypse will be a good addition to your roster of Oko and BRB. I think the more pertinent question is whether you want IHulk. IHulk and Oko will make a good partner too. 

My suggestion is to wait for the next 5* to be announced before you decide whether you want to spend your hoard. Don’t let apocalypse be the sole deciding factor. 

bluewolf

@Akroma

I say that Apocalypse at least provides a different alternative to getting around BRBitty.  And he's going to be most useful on offense, so in PVE you'll find him helpful.

Hard to say how the next 2 5s will work with him, since we have no idea who they will be, but obviously champing them will push you into a new MMR. Apocalypse should be a decent tool to take on other 5's with based on what we have seen, better than a lot of other 5s.

fight4thedream

@Akroma

In the case of your friend, Apocalypse is a good 5* to start out with. High health, his powers work well together, and he does a lot of damage. For PvP, he will be useful against Beta/Kitty teams. Hopefully the next set of 5* characters have some synergy with him but in the event that they don't, he can always pair him with Bishop. 

In your case, if you are looking at Apocalypse as a third wheel for your Okoye/Thor combo for PvE then I think you will be a bit disappointed. Not that he will be bad, it's just Sabertooth does more for the AP your team will be using than Apocalypse. Consider: Apocalypse's black requires protect tiles in order to do damage. Assuming you use yellow to heal Okoye and generate TU tiles, you will have to use his black twice to get damage from that power. Also don't forget his black will burst heal your lowest health teammate if there are no protect tiles on the board, which risks putting Thor over 50% and shutting down his AP generation.

On the other hand, Sabertooth's black does damage on the first go. Additionally Sabertooth's red is one AP less. It might not seem much but it counts if you are going for speed. 

Finally, Apocalypse's red, black and yellow match damage are higher than Okoye's so you will need to level her higher otherwise Apocalypse will tank some of those colors and Okoye will burn TU tiles. 

Just to be clear, it's not that Apocalypse is bad but simply Thor/Okoye/Sabertooth is a much more efficient and smoother team.

If your concerned about the value of Apocalypse for your roster, it seems he will be more useful for you in PvP. He will go well with Beta, Iceman and Prof X. So if you are looking to increase your team variety for PvP, he will definitely add value there. Just not so much for PvE.

Akroma

atomzed said:

when you say both you and your friend have enough CP to champ apocalypse, are you referring to when he hits the LT (probably in 2 weeks time) or when he is about to leave LT? 

Generally, the advice would be to look at the trio in latest legendary. Do you like all 3 of them? How does it complement your roster? 

For example, if you don’t like IHulk, you can always wait for IHulk to leave LT before you pull for apocalypse. Or you can wait for the next 5* to be announced before you decide whether you want to pull. 

For you, I think apocalypse will be a good addition to your roster of Oko and BRB. I think the more pertinent question is whether you want IHulk. IHulk and Oko will make a good partner too. 

My suggestion is to wait for the next 5* to be announced before you decide whether you want to spend your hoard. Don’t let apocalypse be the sole deciding factor. 

thank you for the info both of us MIGHT get enough cp-lt to champ him in about 80 days when he is about to leave. so apoc, next hero 1, and next hero 2. we even get to see first who will come after apoc  

Akroma

fight4thedream said:

@Akroma

In the case of your friend, Apocalypse is a good 5* to start out with. High health, his powers work well together, and he does a lot of damage. For PvP, he will be useful against Beta/Kitty teams. Hopefully the next set of 5* characters have some synergy with him but in the event that they don't, he can always pair him with Bishop. 

In your case, if you are looking at Apocalypse as a third wheel for your Okoye/Thor combo for PvE then I think you will be a bit disappointed. Not that he will be bad, it's just Sabertooth does more for the AP your team will be using than Apocalypse. Consider: Apocalypse's black requires protect tiles in order to do damage. Assuming you use yellow to heal Okoye and generate TU tiles, you will have to use his black twice to get damage from that power. Also don't forget his black will burst heal your lowest health teammate if there are no protect tiles on the board, which risks putting Thor over 50% and shutting down his AP generation.

On the other hand, Sabertooth's black does damage on the first go. Additionally Sabertooth's red is one AP less. It might not seem much but it counts if you are going for speed. 

Finally, Apocalypse's red, black and yellow match damage are higher than Okoye's so you will need to level her higher otherwise Apocalypse will tank some of those colors and Okoye will burn TU tiles. 

Just to be clear, it's not that Apocalypse is bad but simply Thor/Okoye/Sabertooth is a much more efficient and smoother team.

If your concerned about the value of Apocalypse for your roster, it seems he will be more useful for you in PvP. He will go well with Beta, Iceman and Prof X. So if you are looking to increase your team variety for PvP, he will definitely add value there. Just not so much for PvE.

as always, tyvm for your info
tbh i find myself using more my 10 covers spider 2099 than champed sabretooh haha idk  

and yes, i play mostly pve, but of course ill be looking forward to maybe apoc beta on pvp.

my okoye is just 451 :C so i have to deal with that already with ice oko thor (edit: the team up ap problem).

maybe some new thing on pve? like apoc beta and one of the next heroes? or something? (edit: a new team of apoc, beta and someone else already out, or a new one not yet released) as apoc already works as a mini okoye with his yellow

well lets see, as i am not still 100% sure ill have enough to get him in around 80 days before he leaves (edit: for me depends heavyly on the 5* shard situation)

thanks again

fight4thedream

@Akroma

No worries! I would be more than happy to be proven wrong. If you do manage to find something workable for PvE, please do share.

For starters, Beta/Thor/Apocalypse might be something you may want to consider. 

Good luck to you and your friend with your pulls!

atomzed

Tony_Foot said:

Didn’t take long to go from OMG he’s OP and broken to he ain’t all that.  I do like it when the forum gets it completely wrong before even trying a character, Thor is still the funniest example of that.

Don’t forget Kitty too! Everyone underestimated her and she prove us all wrong....

Vhailorx

atomzed said:

Tony_Foot said:

Didn’t take long to go from OMG he’s OP and broken to he ain’t all that.  I do like it when the forum gets it completely wrong before even trying a character, Thor is still the funniest example of that.

Don’t forget Kitty too! Everyone underestimated her and she prove us all wrong....

Well, I'm not sure that the community was completely off on either kitty (there were some outliers very early on in the announcement page who emphasized just how good her passive boosting was) or apoc (where some people pumped the brakes on him, reminding everyone that active-only characters are rarely dominant, especially on defense, even if he had really good synergies on offense).  But yeah, it does seem like he has not quite matched the consensus (probably outsized?) expectations so far.  As Fight4 points out, everything comes down to playing his yellow early and using it to fuel his other powers for significant damage, but the aI isn't smart enough to do that, so he is much less threatening without a player running him.

Also, while his damage is excellent by standard 5* measures, CL10 has blown health levels out of the water, and even standard 5* damage is trivial against enemy teams with 900k total health. Doing 50k for ~14 ap is great by cl9 standards, but you need to do it 6x to kill a level 650 Carnage or BRB.  Good luck lasting long enough to play them straight up when they do 10-25k per round from match damage alone.  This is why CL10 play relies so heavily on Okoye, Kitty, Carol, and other damage boosters.

atomzed

I see it as inevitable that we need damage boosters to clear SCL10. I felt that it’s not so much about damage boosters, but the abilities (usually passive) that has no cap (or very high cap).
passive such as Kitty can continue to buff the tiles for infinite turns. For long matches, the ROI becomes great. 

I personally think this is an ok state of affair. Look I am clearing with my level 460-480 5* champs, which is around 200 levels lower than the enemies. Should I have difficulty clearing? Of course! What SCL10 does is to promote roster depth... the higher the level your champs are, the more advantage you will have. 

HoundofShadow

I wish they come out with more characters that have unique win conditions like G4mora and pre-op 5* Dr Ock. It could potentially achieve two goals:

1) possibility to win matches faster in SCL 10
2) satisfy the call for "puzzly" matches temporarily.

I've fought a few matches in PvPs that have Apocalypse and BRB/other characters and it was easy to beat them. I didn't check the level of Apocalypse but in some of the teams, he had close to 80k HP boosted. I was more concerned about him getting yellow, rather than his red or black. It took some time to chew him down though, which was expected.

Note: I'm in 4* land.

thedarkphoenix

Apoc/okoye is the real threat.

In sim, apoc/okoye/IH.... gl with that.

HoundofShadow

How is Apocalypse/Okoye a threat? 

Okoye and iHulk is more than enough to be a threat. Apocalypse is probably there to soak damage, provides heal and fire his yellow. Apocalypse can be stunned though.

thedarkphoenix

HoundofShadow said:

How is Apocalypse/Okoye a threat? 

Okoye and iHulk is more than enough to be a threat. Apocalypse is probably there to soak damage, provides heal and fire his yellow. Apocalypse can be stunned though.

Vs BRB kitty team's It doesn't matter how many protect tiles are down put down long as I beat up on BRB or kitty just enough before then to where either are the lowest health. and if I'm going in with thor\okoye\apoc I really don't have to focus on anything but getting team up tiles while thor generates the ap and weakens whatever character I'm focusing.

The problem with that is that those teams loses to bishop. But if I want to fight a  bishop team I just swap out IH for like Iceman/kitty/Charles

Akroma

aww. so now the consensus is that apoc is not so good?

Vhailorx

Akroma said:

aww. so now the consensus is that apoc is not so good?

No, he seems good from those who have direct experience with him.  He just isn't singularly dominant like Gambit (on release and after his first revision), and that disappoints people who had very high expectations.

Akroma

Vhailorx said:

Akroma said:

aww. so now the consensus is that apoc is not so good?

No, he seems good from those who have direct experience with him.  He just isn't singularly dominant like Gambit (on release and after his first revision), and that disappoints people who had very high expectations.

ohh i see. its not broken, or ultra good tier s, but its still good normal good

Daredevil217

He’s perfect for my style of play. Fun, unique, quick, 3 active powers, and plays well with tons of characters. Really really hope I get to champ him. I’m cool with him not being broken but hope he shakes up the meta. Tired of skipping Kitty/BRB, Bishop/BRB over and over looking for a Thorkoye to hit with my fun team combos.  I just looked, and I’ve used exactly 30 different 5* characters in Iron Fist’s PVP for example. Apocalypse is the type of character that would get tons of play from me. 

atomzed

Daredevil217 said:

He’s perfect for my style of play. Fun, unique, quick, 3 active powers, and plays well with tons of characters. Really really hope I get to champ him. I’m cool with him not being broken but hope he shakes up the meta. Tired of skipping Kitty/BRB, Bishop/BRB over and over looking for a Thorkoye to hit with my fun team combos.  I just looked, and I’ve used exactly 30 different 5* characters in Iron Fist’s PVP for example. Apocalypse is the type of character that would get tons of play from me. 

I also itching to champ him, bec he works well with a variety of characters. That can spice things up for PVP.

optimus2861

Spotted a champ in the wild today, so with the new character boost he clocked in at level 543. A sneak preview:

• 174,000 health (!!)
• Black (3 covers) does 4 hits @ 19,500 each
• Red 4 hits @ 8,400 each
• Yellow boosts damage output by 18,000

So add yellow to either black or red... 4 x 37,500 (!) or 4 x 26,400 ignoring protect tiles (!).

Yee. Ikes.

Vhailorx

optimus2861 said:

Spotted a champ in the wild today, so with the new character boost he clocked in at level 543. A sneak preview:

• 174,000 health (!!)
• Black (3 covers) does 4 hits @ 19,500 each
• Red 4 hits @ 8,400 each
• Yellow boosts damage output by 18,000

So add yellow to either black or red... 4 x 37,500 (!) or 4 x 26,400 ignoring protect tiles (!).

Yee. Ikes.

Fwiw, level 550 is ~ 100% better than 450 for all characters.  The leveling scale is not linear, but it is standardized across all characters.  So 5*s more or less double in strength from 255->380, then double again from 380->450, and one more time from 450-> 550. 

So from 255->450 is just about a 4x increase in health, match damage, and power strength for 5*s.  (But from 70->270 is only about a 2x increase for 4*s).