Demoralized

DarthDeVo

@HoundofShadow said:
You just highlighted one important concern: will players still support us if we increase rewards by a bigger amount without tradeoff and they don't feel pressured to spend? No.

Put it another way, customers are very unlikely to buy things that they don't need and when resources are not scarce.

Also, if non-whale vets throw out a 2.99 or 5.99 for their efforts to make them happy, I don't think the ROI is there, compared to the revenues gained from pressuring players, realistically.

So, the pressure will continue. Whales will continue to spend on the game and non-whales will continue to complain about not catching up, until Marvel stops everything.

Maybe some people will spend on principle because they understand nothing in life is free and the people making this game have bills to pay too.

When I started playing almost 4 years ago, I swore I wasn't gonna spend any money on this game. But after about 6 months, I had a realization. At the time, I was spending way more time playing this game than watching Netflix and VIP and Netflix cost the same at the time.

So I started viewing it more as something of a monthly subscription fee. Been doing at least VIP almost every month through thick and thin ever since. Also buy the occasional deal here and there if I fancy it, but I try to limit myself to no more than $25 on those.

But I'm very much in the same boat as Pheregas. I've played this game, frankly, an unhealthy amount the last 3.5 years trying to catch up on old characters I missed and maintain progress on new characters. It was working for me. The goal, once caught up, was to actually relax a little.

But no, instead they've cranked the treadmill up a few more mph. My legs are about to give out. Now there's no "end" in sight. I only have five classic 5*s left to champ, but increasingly I'm wondering if I can even last until that happens.

They may be trying to figure out how to convert non-paying players into paying ones, but this feels like way too much stick and not enough carrot. Maybe it works for a few, but my gut reaction is that it's likely burning people out and causing paying players to become non-paying ones by simply giving up the game altogether.

However, I must confess I'm most intrigued by the question you pose:

"For example, if you are spending 9.99 on VIP every month and you are happy with the new changes, how much more would you spend? Or how much lesser would you spend? And why?"

How would you answer that? Remind all of us again, how much do you spend on this game?

HoundofShadow

I don't spend on the game and I don't demand the dev to do things my way. If my feedbacks don't fit their goals or constraints, I don't go around insulting them, criticising them for not "listening" or for not being perfect. I can handle rejection. That's the big difference.

If players expect the dev to do things their way and continue to spend 1.99 or 2.99 just to make them happy, realistically, I don't think they mind losing this kind of customers.

There are many types of customers. There are customers who are willing to pay and there are very demanding customers who pay the least. There are also other types of customers. No companies can satisfy all groups of customers. Every company have their own sets of data to help them identify the segments of customers they want to focus on. Within each segments, there are also sub-segments.

Just like how players assess whether to spend on the game, game developers are doing similar assessment on whether it's worth the effort to make certain group of players happy.

Polares

Shards are better for 4s if you can manage to do scl10, that is obviously true (but it is better specially because of scl10 which we didnt have with bonus heroes). But sincerely for 5s it is not better, it is worse.

Now, think of this, keep bonus heroes, add the pity counter (so you always get a bonus hero after 20 pulls), and then also award the same CPs we were getting in scl9 but then ramp up the number in scl10 to 15 + 40, plus 2,2,5 for the nodes. Would that be much MUCH better than shards? And would it not help way more to get new 5s releases?

The only point of shards has been creating these new offers to milk a bit more their users.

PiMacleod

@OJSP

Thanks for bringing up "Who Moved My Cheese?"

I would've done it if you didn't.

As for my view... eh... I'm not bothered. I've ALWAYS been behind. So being MORE behind (...?) doesn't really bother me. Thankfully, the new 4* release rate and shards makes it so that they are no issue to champ any longer. Not that this matters, but JUST IN CASE the new Bishop or Hammercap is around the corner...

Anyway, I'll just keep doing what I'm doing... although I think I'm gonna change my targeted character strategy. I've been sitting stagnant on what I've been doing for TOO long, and after reading a few posts, I think I need to emulate some proven strategies.

PiMacleod

@OJSP said:

@PiMacleod said:
@OJSP

Thanks for bringing up "Who Moved My Cheese?"

I would've done it if you didn't.

As for my view... eh... I'm not bothered. I've ALWAYS been behind. So being MORE behind (...?) doesn't really bother me. Thankfully, the new 4* release rate and shards makes it so that they are no issue to champ any longer. Not that this matters, but JUST IN CASE the new Bishop or Hammercap is around the corner...

Anyway, I'll just keep doing what I'm doing... although I think I'm gonna change my targeted character strategy. I've been sitting stagnant on what I've been doing for TOO long, and after reading a few posts, I think I need to emulate some proven strategies.

Credit HoundofShadow. I was merely commenting on his post.

Oops! I looked back and saw I missed that @HoundofShadow did it first.

Sorry Hound!

DAZ0273

Who moved my cheese is also a cynical and blunt weapon used by management of companies who want to bury bad news, unfair structural reorganisation or blatant exploitation of staff as something that is a "positive", so let's not get too carried away with it! Resistance to change can be detrimental but blindly following is really no better. There is always a middle ground.

People should be free to think for themselves without prodding from "the Management". I am sure every Corporate Raider has a slice of cheese ready to hand though!

Personally I couldn't keep up anyway so I adapted my strategies several times already, including motivating my Alliance to help generate additional rewards through greater but minimal effort. For a more PvE based alliance, we now perform better in PvP!

bluewolf

*looks at news

*looks out window

*begins furiously writing "Who moved my cheese? (Special Pandemic Edition!)

DAZ0273

Fortunately I know where my cheese is, time for a grilled cheese sandwich! Yum!

AXP_isme

I’m in a similar boat to a lot of the posters here. I’m feeling increasingly demoralised with my progress. The shift to a 4/5/4/5 schedule means I’m losing ground on the new 5*s even playing in CL10. I don’t see myself putting more time into the game - I play less pvp now since PvE takes so long - and I don’t want to put in as much money as would be required to keep up. I think, realistically, that I’m approaching the end and quite quickly at that.

I enjoy MPQ - the mechanics are great - strong franchise, strong gameplay, awesome game overall. I will look back fondly on playing it. I’m not quite ready to quit yet but it’s close and precedent suggests that there’s nothing coming that will change my mind.

I’m not quite sure what this post is. It most closely resembles a pre-goodbye goodbye (not a thing, obviously). Oh well. It’s been a good run.

LavaManLee

This new release schedule is crazy. I am playing more time in the game for less. It's been along run but might be time for me to exit the game. Appreciate the enjoyment I had while it lasted.

Vhailorx

@HoundofShadow said:
I don't spend on the game and I don't demand the dev to do things my way. If my feedbacks don't fit their goals or constraints, I don't go around insulting them, criticising them for not "listening" or for not being perfect. I can handle rejection. That's the big difference.

Snip

Just like how players assess whether to spend on the game, game developers are doing similar assessment on whether it's worth the effort to make certain group of players happy.

The second point is fine. But it's hard to appreciate over all the self-righteousness in the first one. I'm sorry hound, but you can't claim moral superiority with regard to criticizing a freemium mobile game. Your opinion is perfectly fine; it's not objectively superior.

DAZ0273

@Vhailorx said:

@HoundofShadow said:
I don't spend on the game and I don't demand the dev to do things my way. If my feedbacks don't fit their goals or constraints, I don't go around insulting them, criticising them for not "listening" or for not being perfect. I can handle rejection. That's the big difference.

Snip

Just like how players assess whether to spend on the game, game developers are doing similar assessment on whether it's worth the effort to make certain group of players happy.

The second point is fine. Bit it's hard to appreciate over all the self-righteousness in the first one. I'm sorry hound, but you can't claim moral superiority with regard to criticizing a freemium mobile game. Your opinion is perfectly fine; it's not objectively superior.

Shh!!! Chase the cheese, little mouse...

pheregas

Well this conversation moved right into the forums favorite topics of be happy with what you are given, white-knighting, guess at metrics, and pay structures. That's a pretty far cry from voicing my original discontent, even if I did, in my own way, participate in its unraveling.

This will be my last reply to my own post. I am going to use "I" statements because the original post and this last post were exclusively meant to be my opinion. You are entitled to yours. If you feel strongly enough about yours, start your own post.

Do I fear change? No. I like an evolving game. It makes the game more enjoyable to me. This game was always about characters, abilities and how they change the meta and chasing it when it changed. New gameplay mechanics (abilities) and increased complexity fascinate me. If they added a new non-timed game mode (DDQ for instance), then awesome. Non-timer based gameplay is in massively short supply around here. However, this is a match 3 game. It can only evolve so much from there. Decreasing rewards and increasing play time aren't really positive changes in my opinion. Even increasing rewards and increasing playtime isn't a positive change in my opinion. I've not really wanted more rewards for less effort. I've wanted more flexibility in my play times for the same rewards or the ability to earn even more if I happened to be able to play more.

Did I like Support Circuit? Yes and no. Making it timed took the wind out of those sails. If it had been progression only... That would have made all the difference. In SHIELD Training, while aspects of it were flawed (i.e. requiring characters that were released too recently), it was non-timed and fun to play around with newer characters or different synergies. And if I was busy... I could still Gritty it out.

Boss events? Triple awesome. It's nice to coordinate and work as a team to clear as early as possible. If I was busy or unable to play? I still had the opportunities to get all the rewards, even if the difficulty increases crazily after a few refreshes. I love not being bound to a timetable. And what little timetable there was is pretty flexible. The boss is still very beatable even if you miss the first refresh entirely.

And what got taken away from us? SHIELD Training and Boss Events (I know, I know, May. But we used to have these things twice a month before).

But I also despise change for changes sake. If a change is to be made, it should be made for the right reasons. We all know a business needs to make money. We all know F2P games incentivize progress through purchases. There are zero surprises here. Giving us a new prize tier, then immediately nerfing the previous tiers is both insulting and uncalled for. Releasing feeders for all characters, then nerfing the amount of payout shards falls under the same umbrella. Not releasing a feeder for all new characters once a season is just inexcusable.

There is also a player engagement metric. I know it exists. I really don't care beyond that. I play exactly as much time is required to gain the rewards I want. If the devs want me to play more (and again, I'm speaking for only myself here), then they should increase game modes available to me or add rewards that can be achieved through additional game play. People have previously mentioned a type of infinite wave node that increases in difficulty each wave (and subsequently pays out more/better rewards as you progress.) That would be so cool. I definitely fall under the CL10-PVE category, but I keep going back to CL9 and CL8. Why? Because I didn't want longer fights. I wanted more non-timer fights. There is a subtle, yet real difference there.

The questions that I want the devs to ponder are: What they can do to keep me engaged? What can they do to increase my enjoyment? What can they do to effectively entice me to spend? It is in their best interest, if they want to keep me as a revenue-generating customer, to have good answers to all these questions. It is in their best interest to have good answers to these questions regardless of the tier of the player and hopefully ones that are geared for those tiers specifically. What keeps me spending might not necessarily be the same for a new player, or a 3/4* transitioner.

Ultimately, I am a customer of a service. If that service is no longer providing the desired services, then it is up to me to decide if I wish to continue using their service. I have every right, as this customer, to complain and voice discontent in these types of situations. Nobody once ever told a complaining cell-phone customer that their complaints were dumb and that they should be happy that they even have phone service. That type of response is solely the responsibility of the provider. So until I see some sort of official dev response (not holding my breath), I am done with this thread and this game after I complete my last long-standing goal, which was to champ all characters (excluding those in latest or not yet in tokens). That clock is definitely ticking. 101 FA-Cap shards and 1,766 Peggy shards remain.

I only had one other goal, and that was to have a max-starred Support. I'm not upset that I don't have any infinity stones. It was clear from the onset of those that I lacked the gameplay fortitude to achieve one of those, which is fine. That particular feature wasn't meant for me. However, no mechanism currently exists in-game to provide access to 5* tier Supports. For Anyone. And that's completely on the devs.

PiMacleod

I won't click quote. That's too long of a thing to quote!

Nice post, @pheregas . Well stated. I totally understand what you're saying there.

I personally won't change how much I play either. I actually started playing more a couple years ago because I found myself getting a better roster, and sustaining that progress wasn't much of a stretch. Now, I'm enjoying the extra challenge, but that extra time is definitely measurable. I do it for just progression... and sometimes I question if I should continue. Right now, I am... but it's a thought that rattles around still.

I personally will continue to play, but that's only because I've come SO far, and I know that pretty much every mobile game works on this premise of grinding. I've grinded so much now that I just don't wanna start over anymore.

captainheath

If I didn't have so much time on my hands the last few weeks, I'd consider quitting too.

Now I play SCL10 just because it takes longer.

supergarv

Signed all of what @DyingLegend wrote on first page.

Sadly I can‘t quit, so I‘m really hoping for the game to either shut down or adress the issues. Until then I hate myself every day ¯_(ツ)_/¯

CT1888

@supergarv said:
Signed all of what @DyingLegend wrote on first page.

Sadly I can‘t quit, so I‘m really hoping for the game to either shut down or adress the issues. Until then I hate myself every day ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Please release me, let me go.
Yeah, I fear I may only get away when the servers are switched off too.

Warbringa

I am in a similar spot as OP. I played this game more as a collector than competitive but bumping up 5* releases is probably the final nail in the coffin. I just feel very little motivation to play anymore and skipped the entire most recent PvE, have only jumped on for DPD for my alliance recently. I have run through periods of disinterest before and have come back strong but the real fast 5* releases just make it so I have less time to accumulate resources and I will simply have to "skip" even more 5* than I already did. Not very enticing for someone with my play style. I think I held out hope they may introduce a whole new game style, more puzzle based challenges etc. That appears it will not happen so PvE and PvP are just too boring and laborious after so many years of play.

Dogface

I wonder who will be first to actually quit. I read a lot in the line of getting near the point of exiting, but no one seems to want to pull the trigger.

Tony_Foot

@Dogface said:
I wonder who will be first to actually quit. I read a lot in the line of getting near the point of exiting, but no one seems to want to pull the trigger.

Won’t happen, same people over and over. “This might be what pushes me away” it was something else last week. That didn’t do it either. Though I do feel sad for those that want the servers to shut so they can finally stop playing. That’s an awful admission. I guess these games are fuelled of a particular type of personality and they just cannot accept not having it all.