Demoralized

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  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,759 Chairperson of the Boards

    @pheregas said:

    @wymtime said:

    @pheregas said:

    @wymtime said:
    I think it is how to hoard to cover 5*. Number one in the new 5,4,5 of releases you need to be strategic in how you hoard and how you pull for 5*. You need to identify which 5* you want at 450 and which you want to get as high as possible. For instance I think IHulk will be Meta so I pulled 381 pulls to get him. I ended up with 5,3,3 with 7 covers. I am in good position to get him to high levels. Yelena I think I want a level 450. This means I will hoard Havok is out of LL. I will be hoping for the next 5* to be strong. I will then pull till I get the Yelena to 10+ covers where it will be easy to finisher her with a feeder then hoard again. You can pull all the time but I did not have success that way when 5* came out.

    Never before have I had to pick and choose my 5s. My playstyle hasn’t changed. The game has.

    And I also hate hoarding.

    I have also been able to cover all 5*. I might just do things a little more strategical. I have also set up 5* for feeders mainly to get higher levels of good 5* over weaker ones. I also agree with you on the frustration you feel on how hard it is to keep up with new releases.

    I wish you luck in getting your 5* covered I have my strategy and feel it works

    My strategy has been 100% successful. I work in one classic 5 at a time. Sharget the 3* that feeds the 4*. Sharget the 4* that feeds the 5*. Sharget the 5* as well. But only until I’ve had enough shards to fully cover the 5 with the 3/4* shargets.

    I’ve finished off my remaining 5s that way. FA-Cap is the last.

    All remaining 5s (iHulk, Havok and now Yidow) have no feeders. I can only reasonably sharget one of those at a time. The releases schedule was already at the max as it was before. Pretty sure it’s unsustainable now.

    Wish I could buy some covers with my 17 million iso :/

    My strategy has been to hoard. I play CL10 occasionally 9 in a top 10 PVE alliance so I play essentially. I play PVP to 1200 in CL10. I am able to generate over 300 pulls every 6 weeks. So I used to pull every 6 weeks when the new 5* was released.
    Now with a new 5* entering every 4 weeks I will select one out of 3 new releases to get the min number of covers to champion that 5* this allows me to hoard more.

    Does hoarding suck yes, does having a 5* release every 4 weeks suck yes. Is it impossible to keep up no.

    My suggestion to D3 for over a year now has been to go to a new character release every 3 weeks instead of every 2. This would mean 6 weeks between when a 5* enters packs. They could even throw a 3* in instead of a 4*. It would also allow them to do more balance changes or add feeders.

  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards

    @OJSP said:

    This is what I've been talking about whenever there's a change in the game and how I said I felt like I was being gaslighted (back in December). This is why communication is key in any relationship.

    I'm guessing there's a reason to why they are doing this change. I suspect the reason is money. This game is a business after all.. and all is fair in business (so they say). However, I think they are taking a route that I wouldn't do. Instead of doing something to increase customer retention and attracting more customers from other businesses, they are trying to squeeze more out of existing customers while trying to get more customers. Well, guess what? The customers talk and the new customers have less loyalty to start with than the existing ones. When the older customers get disillusioned, the newer ones take caution. Eventually the number of customers drop and the business suffer. I think looking at the number of players leaving the game, we've gone through several cycles of that already.

    I'm not going to delve into business ethics or comment on their companies' operations, because I don't have any personal knowledge on them. They are successful companies who have been running and making money for years. There are some loyal customers out there who keep supporting them for whatever reason.

    The question for the rest of us who are at a crossroads is when is it time to say enough is enough?

    Yup, all of the changes since late 2019 seem very focused on squeezing more money out of existing players (slowing down HP accrual substantially, monetizing 5*s via shards, locking progress per character with shards, making CL10 a 150-200% time commitment relative to cl9 while nerfing cl9 rewards through the ground). To me it all suggests that their new player/player retention numbers are drying up. So the last ditch play is to wring even more blood from the stone that is their established base of veterans.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,455 Chairperson of the Boards

    Honestly, it sounds to me like OP has just...won the game though. Might just be time to find a new mountain to climb?

  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards

    @OJSP said:

    @wymtime said:
    My strategy has been to hoard. I play CL10 occasionally 9 in a top 10 PVE alliance so I play essentially. I play PVP to 1200 in CL10.

    I just want to expand on this a bit: we're actually quite similar, with the exception that our alliance don't play for t10 anymore and I have played CL10 in all events so far. I think placement rewards could add up significantly over time, but for the short period between releases, they are not particularly noticeable in terms of adding to the number of LT pulls. Not only that what our rosters look like is also important, because that would decide the champion rewards we are getting.
    Our rosters (me, wymtime and pheregas) are pretty similar (except I finished my Classics slightly sooner) and ThaRoadWarrior is also doing an experiment on his own progress while being a progression only player.

    It is quite possible that with the increase of 4* covers being rewarded through shards, that we don't need to open tokens as often as before to prepare for SHIELD Training (it depends on what SHIELD Training will look like when it comes back). So, with the increase in pace of 5* release, if we are hoarding, we need to hoard only for 4 weeks instead of 6 (or less if we had to get a 4* for SHIELD training).

    I was playing around with my numbers and found that I could get more than enough pulls to champion all 3 characters in Latests if I didn't get distracted with the other stores and stop pulling when the oldest in the store was fully covered (this time it was Beta Ray Bill, so I decided to keep pulling to level him up instead). I'm abstaining from opening any LTs from Monday because I championed Sinister and decided I didn't want to get any more levels for him. I'm waiting for Yelena and then I'll reassess the situation.

    I appreciate pheregas' situation and it's a tough one to be in. I'm not allocating anymore time for the game myself (the PVE time is pretty much my evening downtime, so I could still extend it most of the time, luckily). I intend to see where I am on day 2000 (35 more days) and see what happens.

    I just passed 2000 a few weeks ago, but am substantially behind the rest of you in roster terms as I have been quite casual since 2018. So I never aim for anything above 450-455, and have to pick and choose my 5*s even then.

    CL10 has definitely increased my 4* cover input; with the current, slower, 4* release rate, I think I will fully cover every 4* while they are still 'latest' so long as I keep playing cl10 prog in pve. And in the long term, that might be a decent boost to my champ rewards (though champ rewards have themselves been nerfed). But as I say with each 4* release, the 4* tier is dead, so new releases don't do much of anything for my subjective experience of the game. Even good new 4s like karnak struggle to crack my regular play rotation when not essential (not when there are 5 options that are equally useful and can better survive challenging cl10 opponents, or chew through trivial nodes even faster).

    And CL10 5* shards are nice, and have increased my raw 5* cover accrual rate, assuming of course that I stay in cl10, as cl9 rewards aren't really worth my time any more. But I think that all of those cover gains (or at least almost all of them) are offset by the faster 5* release rate. so my actual roster progress is perhaps net neutral, but I have to spend more time on pve to get there. It's not a fun experience so far.

  • Haithere
    Haithere Posts: 18 Just Dropped In

    Drop into scl 1 2 or 3 for the next event. This game is not attracting new people. So rather than addressing it, they're just going to bleed their current base dry.

  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited April 2020

    @OJSP said:

    @Vhailorx said:
    I just passed 2000 a few weeks ago, but am substantially behind the rest of you in roster terms as I have been quite casual since 2018. So I never aim for anything above 450-455, and have to pick and choose my 5*s even then.

    I understand that. Not everyone could allocate a chunk of their time in a day for this game everyday. This is the dilemma for the game developer to ensure the hardcore players don't end up developing too fast while the rest of the player base who couldn't play as much don't get left behind, while still generating income for the game. It's a tough business decision.

    yup, serving all sectors of a playerbase is hard, and only gets harder as a live-service game ages. So I have some difficulty for the challenge that demi faces.

    but the recent changes have not really improved the game at all for me. I am still faced with three options:

    (1) accept glacially slow roster progress, on the order of hoard for ~1 year and maybe get 2-4 new 5* champs at the backend with some luck.

    (2) Spend 10-20 hours a week playing the game (on schedule of course, no play-on-your-own time if you want optimal rewards), and increase my reward rate by 2 or 3x (but still not quite reach parity with the 5* release rate unless I grind both PVE and PVP which is a 20+ hour commitment).

    (3) Spend vast sums of money to make up for any missed playtime (and I do mean vast, something like hundreds of dollars per month to make meaningful progress on 5*s from direct purchases).

    None of those options are particularly appealing for me. I would obviously prefer some change that allowed to play casually and make tangible roster progress. But that might be hard for demi given the current state of the game's economy and playerbase. Fine. Even something that would let modest spending feel like it produced tangible results, rather than just helping me tread water, would help tempt me to spend. As is demi wants for $50-75 for a single 5* cover that will result in exactly no meaningful gameplay improvement for me (and it might take a year to get another cover for the character in question). And those are the 'good' bundles. the game just wants too much. And even when they add in much-requested features (like colorless covers and cl10) they do in a way that only adds value to me if play or spend even more.

    demoralizing

    Edit: huh, I didn't know a # would do that on the new text editor.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited April 2020

    I'm curious and want to throw out this question at players who are unhappy with the current state of thing such as CP/HP gains and rate of champing 5*.

    Assuming the dev make changes such as reduce roster slot to 1000 after 300th slot and allow the vet players to champ all 5* releases based on current release schedule, even if they were doing the bare minimum for SCL 10 full progression, how much more would you spend on the game per month?

    The current common price point are:

    1.99
    4.99
    9.99
    19.99
    29.99 to 99.99

    For example, if you are spending 9.99 on VIP every month and you are happy with the new changes, how much more would you spend? Or how much lesser would you spend? And why?

  • Jexy
    Jexy Posts: 52 Match Maker

    I'd happily spend up to $5 a month if the game were actually good.

  • Projectus2501
    Projectus2501 Posts: 218 Tile Toppler

    @Borstock said:
    The 5* release schedule is WAY too fast right now. It's very frustrating to realize that there's no chance to fully cover them all. It's no longer "hoard to cover" and is now "hoard so you can cover the next meta, and ignore everyone else".

    Demoralizing is a good word for it.

    Yeah... We can't get attached to any new char. 99% of them just come and go nowdays... Why should you spend money on char number 201 when in just a month you'll have number 202? (or 203...)

  • grenadier
    grenadier Posts: 137 Tile Toppler

    Have to agree. For years, every time they do one of their periodic surveys, I've mentioned the need to offer increased rewards. The game simply doesn't reward play at a pace that matches what you will need in order to keep up. That goes for covers, ISO, HP, and CP. It feels like you're getting scraps (shards?) when you should be getting usable rewards.

    When you need hundreds of thousands of ISO per character, offering ISO in amounts as small as 20 as a reward is insulting. Even 1000 ISO at a time gets to feel pretty useless after a while.

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards

    We just got SCL10 after YEARS of teasing it, a few months ago.

    And rewards were updated, also after YEARS of being the same.

    I don't know what people expect out of the game after 6 1/2 years, but they will not be doing any major shakeups or new modes or anything else for a very long time (if ever again). I mean, probably not for another year at the soonest.

    It is what it is. Is it still fun and engaging? If so, keep playing. If not, there are many many many other fun and rewarding activities around.

    What activity that is essentially the same do you enjoy after 6 1/2 years as much as you enjoyed it 6 1/2 years ago?

    I have used Thorkoye since approx June 2018, EVERY SINGLE DAY. And SCL10 makes sure that I'll keep using them EVERY SINGLE DAY since I don't see another accelerator like Okoye coming along, nor do I imagine another "free AP gatherer" beating Thor to the punch.

    I mean if you have gotten years of enjoyment from the game, seems like a win-win by now. You spent some money, they made a game you like. You had fun, maybe you're still enjoying it.

    At some point, one way or the other, you will not be playing this game anymore. It will shut down, or your life circumstances will change, or whatever. If you feel like the time is now.....it probably is.

  • Karass
    Karass Posts: 64 Match Maker

    TBH, i echo all that is said here. This game is spinning 5* too fast for its own good and the recent selling for ca$h of LT and 5* shards reeks of desperate cash grab tactics. The disappearance of alliance events until a foreseeable future is also frustrating as heck. All in all, I have, after day 2005, reached a point where I ask myself why bother?

  • Aweberman
    Aweberman Posts: 436 Mover and Shaker

    I play the game, and I enjoy it. I have fun trying to level up the characters, and I have fun trying to find new combinations (especially when climbing in PVP).

    Then sometimes I wander onto the forums and just feel bad. And pessimistic about the future of the game.

    Then I ignore the forums and go back to playing my game, and I have fun again. :)

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited April 2020

    You just highlighted one important concern: will players still support us if we increase rewards by a bigger amount without tradeoff and they don't feel pressured to spend? No.

    Put it another way, customers are very unlikely to buy things that they don't need and when resources are not scarce.

    Also, if non-whale vets throw out a 2.99 or 5.99 for their efforts to make them happy, I don't think the ROI is there, compared to the revenues gained from pressuring players, realistically.

    So, the pressure will continue. Whales will continue to spend on the game and non-whales will continue to complain about not catching up, until Marvel stops everything.

  • jredd
    jredd Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards

    in my experience, shards absolutely speed up cover acquisition, especially 4*. on a couple of occasions i've had every 4* champed before the next one was released.

    depends on how you play i guess. and some luck.

  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards

    @jredd said:
    in my experience, shards absolutely speed up cover acquisition, especially 4*. on a couple of occasions i've had every 4* champed before the next one was released.

    depends on how you play i guess. and some luck.

    Shards are a marginal improvement that should prevent the edge-case 9/5/2 builds that some people had in the past. But the real difference is that cl10 rewards 150% more 4* covers per event. Even cl9 rewards 100% more 4* covers.

    So yeah, giving out more covers definitely speeds up cover acquisition!

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