Update to S.H.I.E.L.D. Training

Mrcl25

@Demiurge_Anthony

It would be very cool if new characters were introduced with a small, non competitive story event featuring the character. 

Therealsmkspy

I honestly find all this disingenuous and deceptive (and refuse to brown nose cause a simple feedback thread was thrown up to save face). ST isn't coming back. Just like SC or any of the other "re-evaluating" aspects of the game never came back.

The truths here are that earnable resources are being removed at a high rate, while heavy PTW monetization progression is the new norm. 

UNC_Samurai

DyingLegend said:

Shield training was fine, most of the annoyances that came when there was a new character requirement that 99% of the community wouldn't have anywhere close to covered.

And they FINALLY fixed this. High-level players were able to get enough covers from CL10 to hit 209 with Karnak before he was a Shield Training requirement. There was a LOT less panic at getting there. Which makes me incredibly suspicious that they decide NOW of all times to pull the event.

bluewolf

Just out of curiosity I looked back to see how long this has run.

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/67853/s-h-i-e-l-d-training-and-rogue-and-friends-vault-9-27-17

So 2 1/2 years of ST comes to end just as SCL10 makes it possible to get to 10 covers with room to spare (just playing twice with a 4* essential in 10 gets you 6 1/2 covers, leaving you 3 1/2 to get from placement, progression in PVP, new season rewards (Simulator) and.....ST (ummmm).

It's just really hard to not see this as goalpost-moving for whatever reason, many suspect greed.  And it's going to leave players feeling very off-balance when the rug gets pulled out from under them when they reach the top of the stairs, finally.

The weird thing of course is that ST provided a cover while simultaneously providing the motivation to get more.  Now I suppose the only reasons to really chase new people are:  1.  the person is just that good.  2.  To play with the new toy.  3.  To keep them alive longer when they are essential.

Someone will probably come along and point out that we complained and complained before when ST was impossible to complete (new character required), and now we are complaining that they are removing it.  But the possibility to complete it for many players finally presented itself so the opinion was changing, and now it's gone.  Bad form, developers.

A_Wise_Man

@Demiurge_Anthony

First, let me comment on the event in question.  ST for lots of vets was a good place to get a new 4 star cover so long as you had the required ones at level 209.  This was a good place to put the requirement because it meant those characters are mostly leveled but not champed, so newer guys could save half the iso if they didn't want to champ those guys yet due to wanting to use the iso elsewhere.  However, with 90+ 4 stars in the game a newer player is extremely likely *not* to have the 3 at 209 due to dilution.  This is made worse by the fact that its typically a 2 or 3 day notice for said 4s so there isn't even time to favorite them to get the covers.  The event itself was fine tbh and gave some extra tokens, iso and cp (if you got enough covers for the brand new 4).  It was the gating that was the issue.  I'd suggest keeping the event the same but rotating the required 3 in some way (alphabetically so it's easy to track?) so that newer players could plan for the next set of 3 for a month and either favorite them or buy shards in the shard store or something else so they could gain access.

Part 2:  I think a major part of the backlash here is that the cut of ST is seen as yet another resource cut.  Since shards rolled out we have less HP in the game, less cp in the game for anyone below CL10, faster releases for 5 stars (which the cp cut really doesnt help)...I'm sure I'm missing something here but I cant think of it now.  Regardless it's been tax after tax after tax in return for shards.  Now, shards are a great way to focus on a few characters.  In that aspect they are a success.  But they do nothing to combat dilution in general.  We have less resources now to roster an ever expanding list of characters (again, unless you want to face the madness of cl10).  There was a time when the dev team here fought dilution by adding stuff rather than increasing focus.  Increasing focus while cutting stuff really isnt helping.  Increasing focus, cutting stuff and also speeding up the release rate of 5 stars is even worse.  We like the game.  We wouldn't be here if we didn't.  We wouldn't pay for things in game if we didn't.  But more and more there is a definite disconnect between the feedback we give and what the team appears to hear (most of the time it seems like nothing is heard at all).  Bridging that gap is going to improve player happiness (and in turn player spending) by a great deal.  Appreciate the ask for feedback, let's see where it goes.

Demiurge_[bagman]

Hello all. Thanks for your thoughts and criticisms. I was writing more individual notes with responses but it was ending up as a repeated litany of "thank you for ideas, sorry we haven't hit every mark we've wanted." 

Will be back tomorrow with an update.

KGB

Posting here again for Demiurge_[Bagman] what I wrote in the Maria Hill thread:

For Shield Training maybe instead of awarding a full random cover if you happen to fully complete all nodes (ie have all 3 required characters at 209), it could be changed to award shards. Say 100 shards for completing the L50 (top) row, 100 more shards for the L110 (middle) row and 200 more for finishing the L209 (bottom) row. That would give out a full cover worth of shards for those who could complete the event (a bit better than a random cover) and give enough partial shards for players with lesser rosters that they could earn a cover worth of shards faster rather than get nothing if they don't have all 3 characters at 209.

KGB

jredd

maybe have the event built more around the new character. have a few more nodes with a loaner so you get a good feel for the character rather than just the one off.

maybe mix the characters in the opponents teams so it's not the same every time.

thank you for communicating. now put the suggestions to good use...

Bzhai

Can we all be adults here and be honest? Like the support pve event the reason this is being removed is because you guys don't want to spend the extra resources to design/run it? 

Why don't you remove Lightning Rounds while you're at it? Oh wait, nvm that one doesn't even have any decent rewards to justify participation. 

itsuka7

Being able to finish shield training is an important milestone for 4* players, a goal that drives them to collect, roster and 209 as many 4* as they can. I have seen many actively playing mid 4* be very diligently pursuing that goal to be able to get in the ST flow. Taking it away is taking away an important 4* player goal to strive for. Completing ST was the most important reward for true broad collectors below the 5* level. And as it takes years to properly enter the  5* level, or play scl10, we 4* players need goals and rewards too, to have a box to check. I have seen very happy posts of alliance members going ‘I finally managed to complete my first ST!’

The reasons you give for scrapping it are not convincing me. Like many have said, the only thing wrong with it was if you asked too new a 4*. I assume your real problem might be resource distribution to the 5* crowd. Keeping their game challenge and experience balanced, making sure they keep buying. Fine, but you do not seem to consider the impact of your decisions for lower than 5* players. Make the game fun for us too, give us some in between milestone we can focus on. ST was the easiest way, support circuit was another one that worked fine for our lvl ‘yeah! I managed to finish it! And now have a shiny new 3* Taskmaster Sword!’ I love supports, they make me able to do Crash of the Titans or tackle a difficult 5* node. I loved the support circuit, it gave me more supports to work with, and on more lvl than 1*. Scrapping it was not a blow to the 5* crowd, they do not need supports, but 4* players do. And hey, we 4* players spend money too, we buy VIP, we buy packs. We can actually still use those covers.

My solution for ST? Bring back ST. Do not use 4* as required that have not been in packs for at least 2 weeks. Maybe prohibit any 5* char from being used anywhere in it, only  4* or lower. Do not lower rewards, but restructure the 4* reward to 400 shards of the new char in such a way that people missing one 4* can still get some shards, just not all. 

Do I have other introduction ideas? Just a general point if you are set on scrapping ST. At a 4* introduction, focus on your 4* playerbase a little more, think of 4* transitioners too. Make whatever event you choose relatively time independent and progression based, and non ranking based, so everyone can enjoy the challenge. And deep roster challenges are not a bad thing, but actually help setting intermediate goals for lower tier players.

Tony_Foot

I'm fine with it being gone. I like that I now can concentrate shards on better feeders or the best characters. I appreciate too that the chances to win the covers has increased anyway. Feed some of those other lost resources into other areas that were awarded for ST and I'm happy to never see it again. You can do the same to four of the nodes in DPD if you like too.

DAZ0273

Whilst I never really jumped through the hoops for the chase to 209, it is clearly obvious that having that incentive drives player engagement. I can't honestly think of a single reason to even bother getting Maria Hill following this announcement. She appears low tier at best, I can skip her 4* essential node and hopefully do the 5 instead and still complete my goals. Players more motivated than me are going to need a reason to chase these new characters for in game purposes so whatever you come up with you still need to make it that champing 4* matters when it clearly doesn't seem to any more starting with Maria minus the meta few.

AXP_isme

I’m disappointed that shield training is being taken away. I’ve certainly been cross in the past when I haven’t been able to get the required character to 209 in time but IMO that doesn’t require pulling the event. 

What does it mean for me? I guess it takes the pressure off the 4* tier. I no longer need to chase them up to 10 covers and level then to 209 so they’re all shield-training ready. Maybe that’s a good thing, I can use my iso for my 5*s instead. On the other hand I get less resources which is a bit of a theme at the moment. 

Overall I see this as a negative right now. I like the extra resources and will miss getting that bump even if it isn’t massive. Maybe in the medium term I will see this as a good step but with the drop in resources, no solutions to dilution, disappearance of more and more events, homogenisation of gameplay in the 5* tier and the time commitment required to play CL10 I’m not sure I see myself still being here in the medium term. 

RentedPanda

One thing I would like is 4 star shards as progression, so if you cannot complete it (assuming the revised event has some gating) you get a good chunk of the new 4 to combine with the bits you get from the other intro events

Demiurge_[bagman]

Good morning, no news yet. But! Taking to heart the critiques of "remove first, ask questions later." Sounds dumb on my part (Removing SHIELD Training was my call, not D3 or Demiurge at large). 

Thinking on how to balance a lot of this feedback. Thanks. 

Friarbundy

Demiurge_[bagman] said:

Good morning, no news yet. But! Taking to heart the critiques of "remove first, ask questions later." Sounds dumb on my part (Removing SHIELD Training was my call, not D3 or Demiurge at large). 

Thinking on how to balance a lot of this feedback. Thanks. 

Thank you for your transparency and honesty.  That's all anyone who plays this game is looking for.

Ed_Dragonrider

Demiurge_[bagman] said:

Good morning, no news yet. But! Taking to heart the critiques of "remove first, ask questions later." Sounds dumb on my part (Removing SHIELD Training was my call, not D3 or Demiurge at large). 

Thinking on how to balance a lot of this feedback. Thanks. 

Wow, hats off to such honesty, it's not easy to stand in front and say it's all my fault.

I genuinely hope you find that balance (I know there's a lot we dont have any insight into), and I'd like to ask that you might think on applying that newfound balance to support circuit.
That was also an axed event that never seemed to get the "re-evaluation" it was promised. We can start a new separate feedback thread for that as well if you wish.

bluewolf

I have to say that the reality of having a new character release open up without ST after 2 1/2 years makes it feel flat and like a non-event.

I mean, I kind of knew that but in practice it's just blah.  Like any other PVE basically, except a little more generous with placement covers and there will be a 4* PVP.

IMO this change had a definitive negative impact on releasing Maria Hill overall.  

This is the kind of thing that propels me towards retirement.

DAZ0273

The other thing that honestly perplexes me about all of this is why do we not have more 4* PvP? If we had a greater percentage of 4* PvP then it would make the 4's more relevant because you would need them at high levels rather than just parked at 209 or below. After Maria's PvP we will never see it again - bam, she is immediately irrelevant. Yet players are hanging on to and in some cases even making copies of 3* characters. Surely the largest category of characters should feature across the bulk of the game? And there is zero amount of "new content" required - just make it so every season the players have a reason to use their 4's as the tier is so bloated.

Or am I as mad as shopper expecting to be able to buy some hand soap?

bluewolf

DAZ0273 said:

The other thing that honestly perplexes me about all of this is why do we not have more 4* PvP? If we had a greater percentage of 4* PvP then it would make the 4's more relevant because you would need them at high levels rather than just parked at 209 or below. After Maria's PvP we will never see it again - bam, she is immediately irrelevant. Yet players are hanging on to and in some cases even making copies of 3* characters. Surely the largest category of characters should feature across the bulk of the game? And there is zero amount of "new content" required - just make it so every season the players have a reason to use their 4's as the tier is so bloated.

Or am I as mad as shopper expecting to be able to buy some hand soap?

For a while they ran 4* PVPs pretty often.  In December they even ran some interesting stuff like Evergreen, Festival of Fights etc.

Since then, just plain ol' vanilla 3* PVP.

I hate pick-3 PVP at this point, but 4* PVPs could be interesting.  I suppose the main problem is that even now there are lots of players (esp newer ones) who barely have 4's covered in general, just the main meta ones and therefore are put off by 4* pvps?  Or maybe they are running same ol' same ol' since SCL10 is still pretty new and they wanted to analyze the data/engagement with a focus on the rewards incentives over any other variables.  Pushing out more 4* PVP would change things a bit, I guess?