Update to S.H.I.E.L.D. Training

Demiurge_Anthony

Hey everyone,

I know there is a conversation about this already in the Maria Hill announcement thread, but the team would like to start a conversation about it where it can get it's own attention (and people can continue to talk about Maria Hill ).

Back in October 2017, we introduced S.H.I.E.L.D. Training as a way to show off our new heroes and provide players with fun challenges for their rosters. Through the years, there’s been a lot of feedback on the event and we really appreciate it.

Starting with Maria Hill, we are removing S.H.I.E.L.D. Training from new character releases. We are taking this opportunity to revisit the concept and see if we can come up with something that more players will enjoy and look forward to.

To that end, we want to hear what you’d like to see in our new character events! How can we introduce our latest heroes in the most awesome way? We’d love to hear your thoughts and feedback as we explore options. We will check in on this thread and pop in to answer any questions you might have on new character events.

Thank you,

Demiurge Development team

LavaManLee

Ummmmm.....honestly?  Just bring back Shield Training.  Why was this even taken away?

Waddles_Pines

Besides the lost resources from eliminating SHIELD Training (which ppl with actual figures can talk about), my problem is that this was a showcase for the new character.  It allowed the player base to play around with the character in an un-timed manner.  The game also used to do that in the season main page.  We used to be able to play around with the new 5* with no pressure.  Resources notwithstanding, there should be a sandbox "danger room" where we can just fool around and try out new combos; without worrying about speed or getting attacked.  

Neoktheone

I had no issues with SHIELD Training. Only the fact that new 4's were often required way too soon. But it had some very cool parts:
- Loaner node in which you were able to get to know the new characters powers.
- Many tokens and ISO to gain.
- That all three featured characters required round in which you were sometimes  forced to be creative in your approach.

I'll really miss those parts. So hopefully they'll come back one way or another...

Daredevil217

First of all, I appreciate the communication! Thank you for that. I’m also in the “just bring it back” camp, but I also was one who never had an issue with it in the first place and would usually defend SHIELD against those who did.  So I don’t have much to contribute on this “fire”, but a lot to say on the bigger dynamic I see at play. 

There is a long history of things being removed to be “re-evaluated” but never get touched on again. Examples I can think of are Fight For Wakanda, Gwen Prix, and Support Circuit. Even the recent “character balance feedback” thread had similar, “we care what you think and are listening” vibes, but then the communication shut down and nothing changed. So the perception real or not is that we’re not being listened to. I made a thread collecting questions people had about CL10 since the communication in that thread dried up once the announcement dropped as well. You can find that here:

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/81466/paging-iceix-and-or-other-devs-collected-questions-from-the-community-about-cl10/p1

While I want to reiterate my gratitude for you making a new thread and popping in to answer questions, I’m just giving you a bit of a “pulse” on where MANY of your players are at. I think a lot of backlash could be avoided if communication were better all along. “Hey everyone, based on player feedback we are considering adjusting shield training or removing it altogether and are curious about your thoughts”. It shouldn’t take vets saying “I’m done”, review bombing, or players pulling their VIP for a company to engage in this way. 

I really really hope this thread can be the start of a new way forward. And again I want to thank you for starting it. 

Vhailorx

Nornally, I appreciate the communication and am happy to see anything official on these forums.

But this is ****.  The explanation for pulling shield training is trash.  There was ONE complaint about shield training.  Just one.  And you had literally just solved that problem. (And even if that **** excuse were true, why can't the event run while you are reevaluating it? It's not like the event was preventing people from playing the rest of the game, or taking up the space of some other game mode.).

You are just insulting our intelligence by ending this feature immediately after bumping up the 4* cover rate but pretending it was in response to player feedback.  Please don't piss on our legs and tell us it's raining.

Also, what Daredevil said above, which is on target and less salty.

grumbLEGO

For context I’m on day 2110, almost to Shield level 163 and keep a complete roster (because I’m a collector, which, btw when are we gonna get a 5* Collector?)

i liked Shield training as it was an easy way to get a new 4* for my collection, unless it needed a level 209 of a just released, that would normally be a challenge for me to have, though with the SCL 10 level just one more pve or pvp with Karnak would have had me at 209 no problem so I didn’t see this as an issue going forward. 

The only other issue I had with Shield training was that it was basically impossible to get enough of the new character to finish the character levels at the bottom. Not that the prizes for those really reflected the effort needed to get them. 

It has has always been fun for me but I have all the 4* characters so I can see why it would be a struggle for newer players or those who simply haven’t gone after every single character. 

fight4thedream

I'm glad to see the Dev team is still looking for ways to showcase new characters. I think that was what made S.H.I.E.L.D. training unique from other events and one of my favorite events. 

With that said, the event did have some obvious issues, most notably it was restrictive so I could see newer players and those who were not fortunate enough to have the right set of 4* not enjoying the event as much as a player with a larger roster. Perhaps going forward, instead of of artificial gates dependent on character levels instead you have progressively difficult challenges?

And if new character events are going to continue to be strictly limited to 4* character releases, why not lock out 5* characters to better showcase the 4* tier? 

Ideally, since the event is supposed to showcase a new 4*'s abilities, provide all players with a loaner at 270 (and if possible allow them to change the build of the loaner) and make the new character required for certain portions of the event, including the final battle. 

One of the biggest critiques of the Shield Training event was that occasionally the new character was either partnered with other 4* characters it had no synergy with or had their spotlight stolen by another 4* character with a more effective skill set. Allowing players the freedom to choose who they pair the new 4* character will avoid the first problem although admittedly probably can't avoid the second issue. But giving players greater freedom to work with their available roster I think will increase enjoyment for the event. 

Finally, if possible, come up with a list of possible team compositions that the new 4* character is best suited for but keep a few of them secret. If a player happens to utilize one of these secret synergy teams, they will be given a special bonus reward. That way it encourages all players to think more deeply about potential uses for new 4* characters. And secret bonus stuff is always pretty cool. 

Oh wow, it seems I have rambled on again. So in short, I think a good new character release event should:

+ give players plenty of opportunities to test out the new character with their own roster
+ offer a progressive challenge to encourage players to make the most of their roster
+ give opportunities for the new 4* character to shine and prove its worth
+ be accessible to everyone but challenging enough that even high end players will have to think about the final challenge
+ have secret cool stuff 

That's all I got at the moment but I really hope we do get something bigger and better (or at least equally as cool) than the departed S.H.I.E.L.D. training. As always, thank you for your hard work!

Freelancer

I appreciate that you are trying to make new releases enjoyable for more players, but I definitely don't understand the logic of making a lot of players unhappy now by completely removing the current system while a new one is being devised.
If we are going to be losing the SHIELD Training loaner node to try and figure out a new character handles, then I wouldn't mind seeing new characters getting a featured PvP on release with a fully covered or SCL scaled loaner rather than just a 1/1/1.

Demiurge_[bagman]

Waddles_Pines: When you say " sandbox "danger room" where we can just fool around and try out new combos; without worrying about speed or getting attacked"  - who are you imagining you're fighting against? A training dummy? Or a variety of enemies/minions/heroes...?


Neoktheone: I'm interested that you liked the forced three characters. Thanks for the feedback. Curious to know if this is a widespread opinion!


Daredevil217:  "There is a long history of things being removed to be “re-evaluated” but never get touched on again. ...then the communication shut down and nothing changed. So the perception real or not is that we’re not being listened to."   I understand the sentiment. We want to do better, we also understand there's a lot of ground to make up. 


Mayo: "feature the second latest 4* instead of the latest in shield training"  Thanks for the thought. 

wymtime

Feedback on shield training.  

Positives: ability to get a new 4* from fairly easy progression for deep rosters.  Ability to try out a new character with levels right away.  Not time consuming to complete.

negatives.  The high level required for specific 4* to complete shield training especially when you are requiring new 4*.  Each shield training is exactly the same so there is no variety and no story to read.

ideas and concepts for new release: fewer releases.  Make a new character every 3-4 weeks.  Dilution is a huge problem and release another 4* just to keep up with a release schedule is not necessary.  By spreading out releases you can spend more time on new events improving PVP and communicating with the players.

2nd release a character with a boss event or a new story event.  Most players love trying new story events and enjoy boss events.  If you slow down the release schedule you can add a new story event every other month and have a boss event on alternate releases.  

3rd keep a progression only release system like shield training but remove the level requirements.  You might add more difficulty but overall it is an opportunity for more players to get a new character and spend HP.  I would even make the right column of shield training a loaner new 4* to try out against more teams instead of the 3 required 4*.  

fight4thedream

***Mod note: Please keep comments constructive and on topic. Thank you.

BriMan2222

I was fine with shield training the way it was, more often than not I didn't have all 3 of the required character leveled up enough, namely the newest one, but it was still nice to get all the other resources.  When I did happen to have all 3 characters and could get the new character cover that was just icing on the cake.

And now if feels like I have a better chance to have all 3 characters with 10 covers.  No change was need in my opinion.

MoosePrime

Demiurge_[bagman] said:

Waddles_Pines: When you say " sandbox "danger room" where we can just fool around and try out new combos; without worrying about speed or getting attacked"  - who are you imagining you're fighting against? A training dummy? Or a variety of enemies/minions/heroes...?

I can't speak for Waddles, but I would love a node where we can pick the enemies, and set their levels.

LavaManLee

Here's what I don't understand.  If you want to make a change, and base it on what you think is feedback, why not ask for feedback from people BEFORE making the change?  Instead, the change is just made and one says it is made based on what you have heard but you don't ask for any feedback before making the change.  That is just not the way, IMHO, business should be done.

pheregas

Thank you for the direct interaction @Demiurge_Anthony  It is very much appreciated.  I cannot like your post since I do not agree with the decision, or the reasons, made to remove this non-timed event.  I can however tip my hat to you for reaching out for constructive criticism.

I, for one, liked Shield Training as it was for the most part.  Was it frustrating every time a new character was essential?  Yes.  Did I still manage to complete it?  Yes (except for the last one or two one-on-one fights).

Was there anything wrong with it otherwise?  Not for me.  I am post-Iso, but the release tokens and the CP were very much appreciated.  With the event gone, that is an even greater lack of opportunity to attain the new character.  

What can be done?  I suggest base level essential loaners for every node.  Will this make the event winnable by everybody?  Probably not.  If you are a 2, 3 or intro 4-star player and your only assistance is an underleveled essential, it will probably not make a difference.  Is it more challenging and still winnable?  Absolutely.  Does everyone at least have the option of playing?  Emphatic yes.

Providing a loaner for every node will not gate out anyone.  The people who would have completed it without the loaner would still complete it.  No resources lost there and nobody feels purposely left out.

Newer players can use whatever they can scrape together and bless their hearts for trying.

Best of all, everyone that gets the new character cover will still have to buy a roster slot.  One could potentially argue that more roster slots will need to be purchased since we all know the next PVE will require that new character.  Nobody wants to be gated out of that either.

Thank you for your time.  Please reconsider not running this event.

DAZ0273

Waddles_Pines said:

Besides the lost resources from eliminating SHIELD Training (which ppl with actual figures can talk about), my problem is that this was a showcase for the new character.  It allowed the player base to play around with the character in an un-timed manner.  The game also used to do that in the season main page.  We used to be able to play around with the new 5* with no pressure.  Resources notwithstanding, there should be a sandbox "danger room" where we can just fool around and try out new combos; without worrying about speed or getting attacked.  

THIS!

tiomono

One of my favorite parts of shield training was getting to try a fully covered version of the new character. Sometimes the ally's they had or the enemies they faced didnt really showcase the new characters specialties. So if a new release event would allow us to select the teammates unlike shield training that would help a bit. Also if the enemies selected would be something that the new character specialized at. It was like kravens first few runs at being the featured character. The enemies did not make specials so it just made people dog on kraven even more.

Ugh

All you had to do was not put a just released character in the mix and make it actually possible to participate.  *redacted*

*mod note: inappropriate comment removed, fight4thedream

rdvargas1

Easy fix.  Reinstate shield training.  Don't use the last 4* as essential to get the latest. It was an easy way to gain more 4* covers.  you could easily tweak the requirements to let 3*-4* players complete it.   

While you're at it, bring back the Gauntlet, Support Circuit (or just get rid of supports), and that Gwenpool thing that was live for two seconds.  making Crash of the Titans daily or at least more often since there are so many 4* now.  

PinkoMcFlyToo

1. There is still time to re-instate it.
2. This is another resource loss being thrown upon us. The recent change to shards for the new character release allowed me to hit the 10000k ISO progression for only the 2nd or 3rd time ever. I am sure I was not the only one in this boat and probably not the only one that was excited about this as well.
   This was a GOOD change. If two many people are getting the LT now then turn that into shards, though to get that LT they most likely had to expend resources.
3. This is following a worrisome pattern of just removing resource access. Two weeks ago we had the first new 5* store that I remember which did not have a Boss event tied to it and took away from players two potential pulls for that new 5*.
4. People here will be very open to trying something new, but there is now reason to take away what they have while new ideas are fleshed out.
5. EDIT, forgot this important one.
   How are you going to give us a character like Marie with a suicide mechanic and take away the one place where we could play around with it and watch her go BOOM just for fun. Very uncool.