That CL10 challenge node is...

MoosePrime

@Vhailorx said:

@helix72 said:
In part thanks to this thread, I can generally clear the challenge node. I actually find it harder and could use more adivce clearing the 5e since I have no champed 5's at all. I can't find suitable partners for my 1/2/1 Black Suit spidey to manage more than one clear today.

This is a good point. The 5e mode cam be harder than the challenge some times. For a 4* roster with pick 2, cl10 may be a stretch.

How does juggs hold up against 5e mode match damage? That passive DR should help a lot against gg + 2x goon nodes. Maybe jugg's/gamora; chase black and blue?

Invis is another viable strategy against over powered opponents. And 4* tier has many options there. From Howard to gut to wolfsbane (extra good because your will want to chase black against gg)

If they can survive long enough to get started, shuri + bp is a very powerful combo, slowing the enemy down and making tons of beefy specials. No stun though.

Shuri can stun with her green, if it hits a fortified tile (so it's not guaranteed).

Bad

For 4* land I think its easy: gamora stunkill. Invisible will not work because allied partners will be left seeing stars and other satellites aproaching hard.
Carnage5 being so popular on challenge nodes is the worst by far with his devastating extra move and red power. The only good tactic for him is stunning.
Anyway I think scl10 is just too hard for 4*, if not mixed with a good champed 5* for dealing match damage.

Mayo

When the challenge node implies having almost the same characters to even try to win4 times it is not a challenge at all but a way to make you spend on leveling those specific characters... And if you keep getting mega life pools on the enemy and carnage 5* to satisfy less than. 05% of the players looking for 'challenge' it is almost a bad joke on your screen.

Challenge nodes should force you use different strategies and characters but atm that is not the spirit.

Vhailorx

@Mayo said:
When the challenge node implies having almost the same characters to even try to win4 times it is not a challenge at all but a way to make you spend on leveling those specific characters... And if you keep getting mega life pools on the enemy and carnage 5* to satisfy less than. 05% of the players looking for 'challenge' it is almost a bad joke on your screen.

Challenge nodes should force you use different strategies and characters but atm that is not the spirit.

You are right that the optimal strategy for these nodes is very same-y across events Demi is in a design pickle here though.

The ONLY way to make a node challenging in the current sandbox is to make an enemy team that can do 50-100+k damage to the player without active power use in the first three or four turns. The ai is to dumb for active powers to be much threat. And there are too many good synergies in the game that can win any point match with infinite survivability and infinite damage.

Demi has no room to maneuver on difficulty without adding new elements (puzzle stuff like kaecilius or apocalypse) that probably take too much dev time for them to do retroactively to old events.

Mayo

@Vhailorx said:

@Mayo said:
When the challenge node implies having almost the same characters to even try to win4 times it is not a challenge at all but a way to make you spend on leveling those specific characters... And if you keep getting mega life pools on the enemy and carnage 5* to satisfy less than. 05% of the players looking for 'challenge' it is almost a bad joke on your screen.

Challenge nodes should force you use different strategies and characters but atm that is not the spirit.

You are right that the optimal strategy for these nodes is very same-y across events Demi is in a design pickle here though.

The ONLY way to make a node challenging in the current sandbox is to make an enemy team that can do 50-100+k damage to the player without active power use in the first three or four turns. The ai is to dumb for active powers to be much threat. And there are too many good synergies in the game that can win any point match with infinite survivability and infinite damage.

Demi has no room to maneuver on difficulty without adding new elements (puzzle stuff like kaecilius or apocalypse) that probably take too much dev time for them to do retroactively to old events.

If giving loads of health points to challenge nodes to make them 'difficult' is a lazy approach. Some creative fast options without the need to add more quirks to the game's side:

Reduce the health pool of the challenge node and:
1. Block all 5s from doing this node, or
2. Allow one 5, one 4* and one 3* at máx level as a mandatory team to play the node, or
3. Block the 10 most used characters from doing this node.

Challenge is about discovering creative ways to win a winnable fight; with infinite life any ai no matter how dumb will kill even a maxed meta team eventually.

bluewolf

@Mayo

Interesting ideas with some potential.

Of course the default approach towards problems in game is going to be “what is the fastest, least labor intensive way to accomplish this goal?”.

So adding conditions to only one certain node in an event would presumably be a lot of extra coding (if even possible) vs the approach they have taken. And considering the age of the game and current world we live in, I don’t expect any radical changes like that for future CNs. At least not for a very long time.

MadScientist

I have started to collect data on the challenge nodes here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wLFYCruvViI_BDF_SGrFXZSFRff7jfwAqDygpvf4v9A/edit?usp=sharing.

This is a work in progress but feel free to comment if you find any mistakes or have suggestions for improvement.

Vhailorx

@Mayo said:

@Vhailorx said:

@Mayo said:
When the challenge node implies having almost the same characters to even try to win4 times it is not a challenge at all but a way to make you spend on leveling those specific characters... And if you keep getting mega life pools on the enemy and carnage 5* to satisfy less than. 05% of the players looking for 'challenge' it is almost a bad joke on your screen.

Challenge nodes should force you use different strategies and characters but atm that is not the spirit.

You are right that the optimal strategy for these nodes is very same-y across events Demi is in a design pickle here though.

The ONLY way to make a node challenging in the current sandbox is to make an enemy team that can do 50-100+k damage to the player without active power use in the first three or four turns. The ai is to dumb for active powers to be much threat. And there are too many good synergies in the game that can win any point match with infinite survivability and infinite damage.

Demi has no room to maneuver on difficulty without adding new elements (puzzle stuff like kaecilius or apocalypse) that probably take too much dev time for them to do retroactively to old events.

If giving loads of health points to challenge nodes to make them 'difficult' is a lazy approach. Some creative fast options without the need to add more quirks to the game's side:

Reduce the health pool of the challenge node and:
1. Block all 5s from doing this node, or
2. Allow one 5, one 4* and one 3* at máx level as a mandatory team to play the node, or
3. Block the 10 most used characters from doing this node.

Challenge is about discovering creative ways to win a winnable fight; with infinite life any ai no matter how dumb will kill even a maxed meta team eventually.

Those are good ideas. But they are new elements that would have to be developed and added to the game. And that require dev time and playtesting etc.

Demi strikes me as a pretty lean studio, especially after buying themselves back from Sega. It would certainly be out of character for them to spend a lot of dev time on something like overhauling existing events to add new mechanics that don't diectly tie in to revenue.

It's not that demi CAN'T make the sort of challenge node you describe; it's that they can't do it at a low cost.

Bad

Honestly I think there are more importants points to change and develop. Like a rerun of alliance events improved and with rewards extended.
And with extended content to last more time.
That would satisfy me for sure the most.

ThaRoadWarrior

Today's Royal Family, saddled with an unleveled 2/1/1 Havok initially got a hard "nope" from me, but then after hitting progression without it I figured what the heck.

I used the counter-intuitive pick 2 of BRB/Carbage, and did clears 1 and 2 with minimal damage to anyone that wasn't BRB. On round 3 Medusa got off a few Hair Meddles though, and it then became what I expected it might, and tapped out. I keep my lvl 450 Carbage at 3/5/5 and my lvl 457 BRB at 5/3/5.

Bad

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
Today's Royal Family, saddled with an unleveled 2/1/1 Havok initially got a hard "nope" from me, but then after hitting progression without it I figured what the heck.

I used the counter-intuitive pick 2 of BRB/Carbage, and did clears 1 and 2 with minimal damage to anyone that wasn't BRB. On round 3 Medusa got off a few Hair Meddles though, and it then became what I expected it might, and tapped out. I keep my lvl 450 Carbage at 3/5/5 and my lvl 457 BRB at 5/3/5.

It doesnt matter havok unleveled. Simply that node is too hard and the required 5* is wasting the slot for gamora or other stunner.
Maybe a 5* champed and with plenty of AP for shooting can pass that. But must be quick tough

Glockoma

For Royal Family, I used Okoye, Havok (base level, 5/4/3), and Vulture.

Bring +2 black to fly and spam Havok’s blue (select green AOE), and green AOE. Worked out well on decent boards.

PiMacleod

Similar for me, with Royal Family...

Did the Gritty thing, and targeted Medusa first (obvi). and I TOTALLY focused on her. I only have a 4 cover Havok (1/2/1), so I would hit red and blue (red) on her as much as possible. DOWN HER BEFORE SHE TAKES MY STRIKES!!

Worked for 3 clears. Then I'd get stomped.

Then did 1 clear of Challenge Node (with Gamora's stun-kill squad), and that was enough for progression. Peace out!

Vhailorx

@Glockoma said:
For Royal Family, I used Okoye, Havok (base level, 5/4/3), and Vulture.

Bring +2 black to fly and spam Havok’s blue (select green AOE), and green AOE. Worked out well on decent boards.

at 600+? I can't imagine my 60k health okoye lasting very long against all the passive damage that the royal family puts out, especially if BB drops a black charged tile early.

Glockoma

@Vhailorx Yes. The heat can be taken as I have only played one SCL9 since SCL10’s release. I don’t have kitty, Thor, Iceman, and my go to team up until I champed Strange a few months ago was Okoye, Medusa, 3* Thanos.

Unless I couldn’t get Vulture up early (Within the first couple turns) to stun BB, I generally didn’t have too much difficulty with the amount of damage that trio offered. Royal talon fighter is quite helpful as well to reduce Okoye’s heal down to 5ap once she hits 10 teamup.

Tony_Foot

This thread is excellent but now I’m stuck remembering who I used for one I’ve played before and it’s tricky going through the whole thread to find the node again.

Feliz

@Tony_Foot said:
This thread is excellent but now I’m stuck remembering who I used for one I’ve played before and it’s tricky going through the whole thread to find the node again.

Was it Val, Fury & Kitty? They've been my go to as my Gamora is poorly covered

Vhailorx

@Glockoma said:
@Vhailorx Yes. The heat can be taken as I have only played one SCL9 since SCL10’s release. I don’t have kitty, Thor, Iceman, and my go to team up until I champed Strange a few months ago was Okoye, Medusa, 3* Thanos.

Unless I couldn’t get Vulture up early (Within the first couple turns) to stun BB, I generally didn’t have too much difficulty with the amount of damage that trio offered. Royal talon fighter is quite helpful as well to reduce Okoye’s heal down to 5ap once she hits 10 teamup.

Am I missing something? Where are you getting stun with a team of okoye + vulture + havok?

Glockoma

@Vhailorx said:

@Glockoma said:
@Vhailorx Yes. The heat can be taken as I have only played one SCL9 since SCL10’s release. I don’t have kitty, Thor, Iceman, and my go to team up until I champed Strange a few months ago was Okoye, Medusa, 3* Thanos.

Unless I couldn’t get Vulture up early (Within the first couple turns) to stun BB, I generally didn’t have too much difficulty with the amount of damage that trio offered. Royal talon fighter is quite helpful as well to reduce Okoye’s heal down to 5ap once she hits 10 teamup.

Am I missing something? Where are you getting stun with a team of okoye + vulture + havok?

@Vhailorx
No, that’s my error. Thank you for pointing that out. I’m confusing my 5e node team with the Challenge node. It’s been a few days, but I had to stun BB and when I cannot use a stunner, I bring stock MBW (modern black widow for those that don’t know) teamups. With okoye (and her support) propagating teamups, this can happen quick.

Challenge node: vulture, Okoye, 5trange. +2 black ap

5e: Havok, vulture, okoye. +2ap black The stuns come from Mbw teamups (x2). Same premise by Stunning BB until down, which on a good board, will go faster than you think.

I am successful in my initial clears and only play 4 clears. Hardly ever do I go for the final 2 clears. There has only been one node in SCL10 that I could not get passed 2 clears and it is escaping my memory right now.

YMMV.

It actually brings up a good point to those like myself that have to utilize all resources to get full clears at SCL10 with L450-470 5* rosters: make sure to request plan specific teamups when at all possible. I personally and currently request 75% of my teamups as MBW, 10% 3Loki, 10% critical tile creators (karnak blue, ME Hulk purple, 1 spidey purple), and finally 5% Whales. I truly leave Whaling as an ultimate last resort for obvious reasons and almost never use them.

Glockoma

So getting back on track, iHulk boosted during some of the more tedious challenge nodes has been interesting so far. Challenge node completed today with iHulk (451), Vulture (313), 5* Captain Marvel (463). Simple strategy, keep your toons in the air for as long as possible. If there was a way to generate more yellow AP with this team (I have Korg on iHulk thinking I would use okoye more, but Hulk tanks most colors) I would be in really good shape. Overall, not bad partners and they avoided most of his revives.