Token Previewing

ursopro

I can already spot all the previewers

bowla33

The other item here is that there is another feature that rewards hoarding. The devs have also stated that they dislike hoarding but continue to roll out features and not fix features which reward them. 

Vladdy

I doubt that it would be extremely "expensive" to deal with the previewing issue.

Let's assume the goal is not to completely fix it but to improve the situation and making it more fair. As @fmftint said the pull sequence in terms of 4* or 5* pulls won't change per store. But different stores have different sequences that provide the opportunity to optimise your overall 5* pull rate by managing you resource expenditure (if you do preview).

Let's think about that they would use one sequence for the classic legends store (and any possible future store with a 20 CP per pull cost) and another sequence for latest legends and any other store with a 25 CP per pull cost.

That way you should not be able to improve your 5* pull rate by previewing special stores (just the pulled 5* characters are different but not the amount).

Maybe I am missing something but that could be an "easy enough" improvement I think.

helix72

ursopro said:

3 pages in and I still don't understand how all this works...

Neither do I, but that is because no one is allowed to explain it to you. The post would be removed, they would likely get at least a warning if not a ban, and their account might be frozen.

Just take it as an opportunity to feel good that you're not cheating because it's inherently wrong, not just because you don't know how to do it.

bluewolf

Vladdy said:

I doubt that it would be extremely "expensive" to deal with the previewing issue.

Let's assume the goal is not to completely fix it but to improve the situation and making it more fair. As @fmftint said the pull sequence in terms of 4* or 5* pulls won't change per store. But different stores have different sequences that provide the opportunity to optimise your overall 5* pull rate by managing you resource expenditure (if you do preview).

Let's think about that they would use one sequence for the classic legends store (and any possible future store with a 20 CP per pull cost) and another sequence for latest legends and any other store with a 25 CP per pull cost.

That way you should not be able to improve your 5* pull rate by previewing special stores (just the pulled 5* characters are different but not the amount).

Maybe I am missing something but that could be an "easy enough" improvement I think.

Well....let's consider this for a minute.

Currently each store as it enters the game generates some string of results for each user at random.  It's locked in as soon as the store is - I assume - in the code which is downloaded to your device and you next open the app (probably even before it appears on your screen, since that happens instantly).  Which seems like a fairly straightforward thing to code for.  It's done, it works, they've got it down to the point where it is probably extremely routine.

What you are describing is to have a new store somehow interact with the existing locked in Latest pull string - something that the game does not have anywhere else between stores.  And to make the results vary (in terms of pull results) depending on which storefront you clicked on.  So the same string in Latest might give you a BRB next while pulling in the Sinister CP store gives you a Sinister, let's say.  Oh, and to make sure that the new store accurately advanced along the results chain and interacted with pulls in Latests and any other CP store (s) (have they ever had 2 special CP stores open at once?  I think they did once, anyway).  Done wrong and you could see how new exploits/bugs could arise (chain doesn't advance, you get 2 5s instead of 1, etc).  

This seems like a system that would require a lot more coding (as each new store would have to be set up correctly) and QA (to make sure that the new store did indeed give you a Sinister instead of a BRB because oops!). It might not even be possible to build a store that gave you different results from that chain, just because you made the pull on a different screen with the existing game code and engine.  

Hence, expense is added to every single new CP store.  (Not to mention that to verify the store was accurately pulling from the string, you would need to preview the pair of stores, lulz.)

To me, it  seems it is not a low-cost endeavor to do this and might be far more expensive (in terms of ongoing time/money spent to ensure proper operation) than the current workflow they have around building new CP stores.

jp1

Crazy we even need to debate if this is cheating or not. 

@IceIX - Would you weigh in here for clarity please? Not concerned with if it will be addressed or not, just if the team considers the practice cheating. This way we can stop “imposing our morals” if you fellas don’t give a flip.

Vhailorx

jp1 said:

Crazy we even need to debate if this is cheating or not. 

@IceIX - Would you weigh in here for clarity please? Not concerned with if it will be addressed or not, just if the team considers the practice cheating. This way we can stop “imposing our morals” if you fellas don’t give a flip.

don't expect an answer here. Think about what you are asking for. There is no way Ice can win by responding to that post.  If he says 'it's cheating,' then Demi kinda has to do something about it (which is technically difficult).  And if he says 'no,' then this thread just gets to be a bigger comms problem.  And keeping this board under control is Ice's job.

Vladdy

bluewolf said:

Well....let's consider this for a minute.

Thank you for taking the time and share your thoughts about my comment.

When 5* characters leave/enter latest legends the string remains the same. So I guess that they don't lock in the specific pulled character but more likely the index and the store knows what character currently occupies that index.

Anyway I am still not convinced that it is that bad as you seem to think but maybe I am too optimistic.

Yes, there are definitely problems that they would have to deal with if they want to change something about previewing. But I highly doubt that they do want. So I guess it will just stay with us.

bluewolf

Vladdy said:

bluewolf said:

Well....let's consider this for a minute.

Thank you for taking the time and share your thoughts about my comment.

When 5* characters leave/enter latest legends the string remains the same. So I guess that they don't lock in the specific pulled character but more likely the index and the store knows what character currently occupies that index.

Anyway I am still not convinced that it is that bad as you seem to think but maybe I am too optimistic.

Yes, there are definitely problems that they would have to deal with if they want to change something about previewing. But I highly doubt that they do want. So I guess it will just stay with us.

All very true.  Previewing has been around and known for years.  If you think about it, they resolved the re-roll exploit with the locked-in string vs stopping players from previewing at all.   

This leads me to believe they consider it to be closer to an annoyance vs a drain on potential revenue.  That, or the resources/changes required to eliminate previewing was too big of a hurdle to take on (if even possible with the game as it was built - the engine is new but the base code is still 6 years old).

The fact is that the team is small (about 21 members according to the Credits) and QA is already a major hurdle just from a "test this new character and its interactions with 200 others" point of view.  It is clear that they are limited in their ability to take on side projects which is, from my perspective, where you would have to put the goal of "stop previewing".

I could be wrong about costs and such, not knowing their internal processes, but I think that if a fix introduces a new ongoing complexity and cost to their processes, it would not be easy for them to adopt.

Warbringa

It is a simple fix to me, if it is able to be coded.  The game syncs to the cloud every time you claim a 5* cover from token draws.  This will stop previewing but not cause unreasonable syncing/delay issues since it doesn't do it after every 4* cover draw....which will happen to be most legendary tokens 

killahKlown

All OP is accomplishing is spreading the word to people who hadn't already known about previewing.  And since he seems to be so much against it, the creation of this topic seems counterproductive.

And it is ridiculous to call it cheating.  All it is is making a more informed decision.  You can't increase your pull rate or gain any other advantage.  You're still getting the exact same value whether you preview it or not.  Also, it is not an unfair advantage since the ability is available to every player.

Back in the day, did OP write a stern letter to Konami about the unfair use of the Contra code that was available to EVERYONE?

jp1

Seems like a hot button issue. I guess some folks would like to avoid the sandbox.

If it isn’t cheating, why would they care if you pass the knowledge around? Also in contra that code, the “cheat” code was cheating.

tiomono

jp1 said:

Seems like a hot button issue. I guess some folks would like to avoid the sandbox.

If it isn’t cheating, why would they care if you pass the knowledge around? Also in contra that code, the “cheat” code was cheating.

@killahKlown Also contra was not putting you in direct competition with 1000's of other players worldwide. If an in game "exploit" allows you to see things you normally wouldnt see in regular use I would consider it cheating if you consistently use that for whatever your own reasons may be.

Vladdy

killahKlown said:

You can't increase your pull rate or gain any other advantage.  You're still getting the exact same value whether you preview it or not.

That is only true if you look at every store separately. But your CP can be spend on every store.

By avoiding special stores with a bad pull rate (< 15%) and spending your CP only on special stores with a good pull rate (> 15%) you can increase your overall pull rate if that is your goal.

killahKlown

Vladdy said:

killahKlown said:

You can't increase your pull rate or gain any other advantage.  You're still getting the exact same value whether you preview it or not.

That is only true if you look at every store separately. But your CP can be spend on every store.

By avoiding special stores with a bad pull rate (< 15%) and spending your CP only on special stores with a good pull rate (> 15%) you can increase your overall pull rate if that is your goal.

I suppose.  But everyone has this option...  there is no unfair advantage.

Warbringa

killahKlown said:

All OP is accomplishing is spreading the word to people who hadn't already known about previewing.  And since he seems to be so much against it, the creation of this topic seems counterproductive.

And it is ridiculous to call it cheating.  All it is is making a more informed decision.  You can't increase your pull rate or gain any other advantage.  You're still getting the exact same value whether you preview it or not.  Also, it is not an unfair advantage since the ability is available to every player.

Back in the day, did OP write a stern letter to Konami about the unfair use of the Contra code that was available to EVERYONE?

Is it available to Steam players?  I don't know if it is.  Steam works differently than the mobile app in a lot of ways. 

killahKlown

Warbringa said:

killahKlown said:

All OP is accomplishing is spreading the word to people who hadn't already known about previewing.  And since he seems to be so much against it, the creation of this topic seems counterproductive.

And it is ridiculous to call it cheating.  All it is is making a more informed decision.  You can't increase your pull rate or gain any other advantage.  You're still getting the exact same value whether you preview it or not.  Also, it is not an unfair advantage since the ability is available to every player.

Back in the day, did OP write a stern letter to Konami about the unfair use of the Contra code that was available to EVERYONE?

Is it available to Steam players?  I don't know if it is.  Steam works differently than the mobile app in a lot of ways. 

Based on how it has been described, I don't see why not.  

But I couldn't say for sure as I myself would never participate in such nefarious practices.

T_REZ5000

tiomono said:

jp1 said:

Seems like a hot button issue. I guess some folks would like to avoid the sandbox.

If it isn’t cheating, why would they care if you pass the knowledge around? Also in contra that code, the “cheat” code was cheating.

@killahKlown Also contra was not putting you in direct competition with 1000's of other players worldwide. If an in game "exploit" allows you to see things you normally wouldnt see in regular use I would consider it cheating if you consistently use that for whatever your own reasons may be.

Uhh, this is a f2p game.  People who spend big $ have a massive advantage over those who don’t.  I’m genuinely confused how you can base an argument around fairness in this environment.  You don’t think a 550 okoye has a crazy advantage over a 450 in this run of simulator?   I’d say the advantage gained by that is far greater than the konami code.  Also, like killahklown said, the konami code was available to everyone whereas a few $1000 per month of disposable income for a mobile game is not.

PinkoMcFlyToo

From what I recall, it was not unlimited previewing for a store and the game would eventually **** out. 
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think people can preview for 600 CP or the long string of 20 numbers in an early example.
Not sure how high people could actually get but I thought you were lucky if you got to see 5.

Kojubat

Database transactions cost money. Every single transaction that does not need to occur reduces costs. Stating that the actual transaction is small, perhaps only a single value with an identifier, is accurate. But at scale, you need to account for network throughput, storage, and transaction log files.

If you are not familiar with how databases work, picture an intern that has to get coffee for an office of 10 people. Usually, they collect all the orders at once and make one trip. The office then determines that some people have a bad coffee experience, so each order needs to be done separately. That means the intern is now making nine additional trips, causing nine additional financial interactions, adding nine additional people to the coffee line, and not doing the other things they would normally be doing with that time. The effect on the intern (your device) might be seen as acceptable. But look at the effect on the coffee shop (their server) to see how it could impact their staffing and capacity management if this isn't limited to one office. If all of their customers multiply their visits by ten, but don't spend any additional money in the process, they start losing money selling the same exact product.

Any solution that involves "talk to the server more often" has a cost that does not directly lead to revenue. It is addressing intangibles. One can argue that those intangibles are worth the expense, but prior performance indicates that's not a line on their spreadsheet.