Token Previewing

135

Comments

  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 1,081 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    jp1 said:
    I’m going about being a spender all wrong, I didn’t know it meant I could cheat without recourse.
    Umm, have you paid any attention to politics or economic recently (or really at any time ever)?

    Having lots of money to spend basically always means you can break the rules without penalty.
    Sure, it’s just that playing “politics” isn’t my idea of fun. It creases me more than a little to know that I have been financially supporting this game and they are complacent in having me compete with cheaters.
  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 1,081 Chairperson of the Boards
    Wow, thanks for the enlightenment gentlemen. I had absolutely no idea how politics, capitalism, or economics function. You were totally correct to assume I’d need to be schooled on that matter.

    I also appreciate you letting me know which aspects of cheating should and should not bother me.

    Fancy ourselves superior, huh? 

    I was going to just let it go, but my gosh the sheer arrogance. I actually had a laugh, so thanks for that as well.
  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 1,081 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2020
    I’m flipping out? 

    That’s a bit dramatic.

    I’m not sure at what point you decided it was up to you to decide what level of cheating is acceptable, but people can have a different opinion you know?

    This thread is almost looking like an endorsement for token previewing. I mean you explicitly stated you weren’t endorsing the practice but have otherwise basically been making light of it, if not flat out stating we should just accept it.

    My dollars should entitle me to an opinion the same as yours do, or do you disagree with that as well?

    Also, I certainly made no endorsement of the same problem “writ large” that wasn’t part of this discussion, and other than you just now saying it, I was unaware it was even an issue.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2020
    jp1 said:
    I’m flipping out? 

    That’s a bit dramatic.

    I’m not sure at what point you decided it was up to you to decide what level of cheating is acceptable, but people can have a different opinion you know?

    This thread is almost looking like an endorsement for token previewing. I mean you explicitly stated you weren’t endorsing the practice but have otherwise basically been making light of it, if not flat out stating we should just accept it.

    My dollars should entitle me to an opinion the same as yours do, or do you disagree with that as well?
    You can get angry at mpq or me; you can feel however you like.  But it won't change anything

    I'm saying this issue probably isnt worth getting too upset about because it's unlikely to change and isn't a big deal compared to other competitive advantages in the game (e.g. Line and buy clubs).  Make of that what you will. 

    All that said, I really do not mean to belittle you or your opinion at all.  I'm  sorry if I came across a **** smug know-it-all (it's just a frequent occurance given how brilliant I am. ;) ). 

  • ursopro
    ursopro Posts: 334 Mover and Shaker
    3 pages in and I still don't understand how all this works...
  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 1,081 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    jp1 said:
    I’m flipping out? 

    That’s a bit dramatic.

    I’m not sure at what point you decided it was up to you to decide what level of cheating is acceptable, but people can have a different opinion you know?

    This thread is almost looking like an endorsement for token previewing. I mean you explicitly stated you weren’t endorsing the practice but have otherwise basically been making light of it, if not flat out stating we should just accept it.

    My dollars should entitle me to an opinion the same as yours do, or do you disagree with that as well?
    You can get angry at moq or me; you can feel however you like.  But it won't change anything

    I'm saying this issue probably isnt worth getting too upset about becausr it's unlikely to change and isn't a big deal compared to other competitive advantages in the game (e.g. Line and buy clubs).  Make of that what you will. 

    All that said, I really do not mean to belittle you or your opinion at all.  I'm  sorry if I came across a tinykitty smug know-it-all (it's just a frequent occurance given how brilliant I am. ;) ). 

    Hah! That’s pretty good. No worries, I’m not nearly as angry as it may seem. It was worth it for the laugh.
  • Mayo
    Mayo Posts: 156 Tile Toppler
    Your concern has already been stated and it fails at the very beggining. 

    Your moral may tell you previewing is cheating. No it is not, if you see the larger picture and ethically ask yourself if it is sound to use all means available to play a game. The answer is yes. (that is why you can also play this game without using any real money, buy bundles or other offers, etc). 

    Your moral can not be imposed over a game that makes money from every means possible. 

    For example: you preview and see nice covers, what do you do? Buy more hp to get them, who wins? The game owners. 

    You can speculate that some players that have máx or near máx rosters used this to get faster to their objective. So what? Do you want to get them banned? It will never happen because the game income would receive a deathly blow.

    About this players, they probably are not in your sights and won't be there for a long time depending on your game strategy. I myself grind 75 fights every pvp to hoard cp to level up as fast as I can and do not care if I get hit by players with heros at level 550 when my strongest character is at 458 (nevertheless this issue should be adressed some time). They help me by lowering me back to where I can continue winning fights and make my 75 fights.
    Sometime in the future if I continue playing I will be as strong as them or maybe they will have moved to another game.

    And what comes next? Ban buy clubs because it is 'unfair advantage' ? Will never happen, each buy club is 2K usd for the games pocket for each run.

    I do not know how many workarounds are in the game to go faster but I think that the team that overwatches our gameplay have had this issue vey clear for a long time. 

    I myself do not live in the states and I am not complaining of all the advantages american players have to get resources and advance faster than me. I Just play and enjoy the game and if I ever do not like it I will Just quit. No drama. 


    Cheers! 
  • LifeofAgony
    LifeofAgony Posts: 690 Critical Contributor
    Mayo said:
    Your concern has already been stated and it fails at the very beggining. 

    Your moral may tell you previewing is cheating. No it is not, if you see the larger picture and ethically ask yourself if it is sound to use all means available to play a game. The answer is yes. (that is why you can also play this game without using any real money, buy bundles or other offers, etc). 

    Your moral can not be imposed over a game that makes money from every means possible. 

    For example: you preview and see nice covers, what do you do? Buy more hp to get them, who wins? The game owners. 

    You can speculate that some players that have máx or near máx rosters used this to get faster to their objective. So what? Do you want to get them banned? It will never happen because the game income would receive a deathly blow.

    About this players, they probably are not in your sights and won't be there for a long time depending on your game strategy. I myself grind 75 fights every pvp to hoard cp to level up as fast as I can and do not care if I get hit by players with heros at level 550 when my strongest character is at 458 (nevertheless this issue should be adressed some time). They help me by lowering me back to where I can continue winning fights and make my 75 fights.
    Sometime in the future if I continue playing I will be as strong as them or maybe they will have moved to another game.

    And what comes next? Ban buy clubs because it is 'unfair advantage' ? Will never happen, each buy club is 2K usd for the games pocket for each run.

    I do not know how many workarounds are in the game to go faster but I think that the team that overwatches our gameplay have had this issue vey clear for a long time. 

    I myself do not live in the states and I am not complaining of all the advantages american players have to get resources and advance faster than me. I Just play and enjoy the game and if I ever do not like it I will Just quit. No drama. 


    Cheers! 

    No, it’s cheating.  Posting a how-to on how to do it would get me banned.  Explaining to someone how a buy club works is a-ok. Why?  Cuz it’s not cheating.  That’s the long and short of the argument.  It’s cheating.  Either make it available to everyone to do without needing to create a specific situation to pull off the trick *or* fix it.
  • Pongie
    Pongie Posts: 1,412 Chairperson of the Boards
    ursopro said:
    3 pages in and I still don't understand how all this works...
    Back to the future quote. https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/efe83207-5eaa-4538-ad85-86676f06c172
  • jamesh
    jamesh Posts: 1,600 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    My impression is that it's an exploit in that demi/d3 don't want players to be able to do it.  But it's also a very hard one to fix without completely trashing the app's mobile performance (i.e. the most obvious solution would absolutely tank batteries). 

    I doubt it would have much effect on battery life.  All it would require is to save the game state to the cloud after each token is opened, similar to how they already do after each match.  It wouldn't even need to send the entire state over the wire: simply saying which token was opened should be enough to keep both ends in sync (as both sides know the PRNG seed used for the store).  It would be a slight slow down to opening tokens, but that's a pretty small part of the play time.

    The recent changes to allow opening multiple tokens at once would reduce the impact even further.  If you've completed your PVE clear for the day and have your seven standard tokens, it's now one operation to synchronise them rather than seven.

  • Mayo
    Mayo Posts: 156 Tile Toppler
    edited February 2020
    LifeofAgony said:
    Mayo said:
    Your concern has already been stated and it fails at the very beggining. 

    Your moral may tell you previewing is cheating. No it is not, if you see the larger picture and ethically ask yourself if it is sound to use all means available to play a game. The answer is yes. (that is why you can also play this game without using any real money, buy bundles or other offers, etc). 

    Your moral can not be imposed over a game that makes money from every means possible. 

    For example: you preview and see nice covers, what do you do? Buy more hp to get them, who wins? The game owners. 

    You can speculate that some players that have máx or near máx rosters used this to get faster to their objective. So what? Do you want to get them banned? It will never happen because the game income would receive a deathly blow.

    About this players, they probably are not in your sights and won't be there for a long time depending on your game strategy. I myself grind 75 fights every pvp to hoard cp to level up as fast as I can and do not care if I get hit by players with heros at level 550 when my strongest character is at 458 (nevertheless this issue should be adressed some time). They help me by lowering me back to where I can continue winning fights and make my 75 fights.
    Sometime in the future if I continue playing I will be as strong as them or maybe they will have moved to another game.

    And what comes next? Ban buy clubs because it is 'unfair advantage' ? Will never happen, each buy club is 2K usd for the games pocket for each run.

    I do not know how many workarounds are in the game to go faster but I think that the team that overwatches our gameplay have had this issue vey clear for a long time. 

    I myself do not live in the states and I am not complaining of all the advantages american players have to get resources and advance faster than me. I Just play and enjoy the game and if I ever do not like it I will Just quit. No drama. 


    Cheers! 

    No, it’s cheating.  Posting a how-to on how to do it would get me banned.  Explaining to someone how a buy club works is a-ok. Why?  Cuz it’s not cheating.  That’s the long and short of the argument.  It’s cheating.  Either make it available to everyone to do without needing to create a specific situation to pull off the trick *or* fix it.
    Sadly your moral point of view stops you from considering my ethical point of view and therefore you think you are absolutely right. 

    For instance, if you learn how to preview but the devs continue to ignore the fact would you still use it? 

    If yes, then your petition is not consistent with your actions. 
    If no, already it is been stated that previewing has long data and devs will not share what are they doing about it. Its their game, nothing else than comment on it can be done. 

    No game, company, family, organization, etc should accomodate to an individual or minority demands, it is the other way around (the devs monetary interests) and as mentioned above that is how rl works commonly. The game environment is everchanging and if you are having fun then good, if not well.... I have quit playing a few games in the past when i did not liked the gaming conditions and I assure you I am not missed at all. 🤷🏻‍♂️ One pawn falls, another will take its place. 

    Enjoy your time, this is a game, your happiness or life does not depend on it.  Not everything is a lifeofagony✌🏻🍀😁

    Cheers! 
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    I don't know that I would say no one should EVER accommodate a minority or individual.  But it's a cost/benefit analysis. 

    Here, the cost of "fixing" previews is quite high compared to cost of just ignoring them.  hence, i would not expect much action from Demi.  With other issues (e.g., when the LTs accidentally had 1/4 odds of dropping 5*s, have a much higher cost to demi and are noticeably easier to fix.  hence they get patched within hours.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    Bluewolf:

    I would take a different message from the shard retro reward business: solidarity.  Look at what players can force the devs to do when we act in concert.  We don't *have* to accept **** mechanics like shield cooldowns or optimal clearing schedules, it reduced champ rewards to accommodate shards.  That stuff only happens because a large enough portion of the playerbase accepts it.
  • Projectus2501
    Projectus2501 Posts: 218 Tile Toppler
    HoundofShadow said:
    Is this considered cheating? If it's not, then everyone should have access to this knowledge. I suppose it's a higher level thing.  B)
    No it's not cheating. If it was the devs would already had corrected this a long ago. You can hVe any app or account in more than one phone. 
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    Excellent post as usual @bluewolf. Even though I don’t always agree with you (though I do more often than not), you are probably my favorite poster here in terms of game insight and just sheer level of knowledge.

    I was going to refrain from posting in here because I know this is a hot-button issue for some. However, a thought just occurred to me (and if it’s too close to the casino analogy, feel free to delete).

    But, I liken previewing to tapping. It’s definitely an “exploit” and outside of “what the developers want”. I didn’t get mad at the tappers and call them dirty cheaters. They just used the mechanics available to them (and to everyone really) to optimize their play whether the developers wanted them to or not.  Some knew about tapping and refused to do it based on their own ethics. Others didn’t have the time/resources. And others didn’t have the knowledge on how to do it. But ultimately, both issues boil down to “if the developers want to fix it they will”. And I don’t think any tappers got sandboxed (that’s much easier to track as well) for using the exploit, because the devs knew the onus was on them to fix it. Just my 2 cents. 


  • fmftint
    fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
    LifeofAgony said:
    This isn’t counting cards;  this is cheating.  Knowingly taking steps that have nothing to do with the game to exploit your token pulls to determine whether or not you want to pull.

    Lets keep this on-topic as I’m hoping at least someone will pipe up from the official voices side to say this is good or otherwise.
    Except counting cards you can leverage your bets to increase your winnings. Previewing tokens simply shows what is there.  There's nothing you can fo to increase your odds,  to change the draw,  to gain anything extra.  What's the now will still be there in a week,  month,  year.  If your sequence now is 4,4,4,4,5,4,5,5,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4  it will remain until those draws are pulled

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